Thompson the elder...

[bpo57]

Hmm...its called NCAA credits that go to a conference of the teams that do well in the Big Dance...units are $$$. The deeper a team goes in the Big Dance, more $$$ are earned by its conference. For example, the BE has earned nearly $30 million in NCAA credits in the past year....dollars received each year are based on payouts from, I believe, six years ago moving forward. These $$$ are then distributed equally among the conference's members. Unfortunately, these credits do not go with the teams that won them if that team leaves the conference...so 'Cuse, Pitt, Louisville, WVU, and Notre Dame, which won the most credits for games won in the BE are leaving without some $$$ earned over the credit payout period. Note that the New BE will get to take a lot of these credits with them...another fair split with the BE...

That has just about zero to do with whether SU has a successful basketball program. When you have the largest average attendance in the nation and 90% of your games from January on are on ESPN or CBS then whether UConn or Pitt earns some extra NCAA credits by advancing deep in the tourney is immaterial to the success of SU's program. It's all about coaching, facilities, exposure and recruiting and SU has plenty of $$$ to take care of each one.

 

[arbitragegls]

That has just about zero to do with whether SU has a successful basketball program. When you have the largest average attendance in the nation and 90% of your games from January on are on ESPN or CBS then whether UConn or Pitt earns some extra NCAA credits by advancing deep in the tourney is immaterial to the success of SU's program. It's all about coaching, facilities, exposure and recruiting and SU has plenty of $$$ to take care of each one.

I agree with what you said, but you missed the point I responsed to as to why we should care about other teams in our conference doing well in NCAA...of course I want the CONFERENCE TEAMS TO DO WELL in the NCAAs...it means $$$ to the Conference coffers that get paid out to every team in the conference...of course how those teams play has little to do with 'Cuse specifically except for $$$ gained.

 

[SWC75]

I've never bought that notion. It only helps our BE opponents when they do well in the tourney. SU and the BE have always been big-time enough that our fate isn't tied to how other BE teams do in the tourney.

It's a simple concept, the same as "strength of schedule". If the teams you played do well, you look better. Your wins look more impressive and you losses not as bad. If the conference you are in does well, you look better for having been a contender in that conference and if you conference tanks, that's egg on everybody's faces.

 

[bpo57]

I agree with what you said, but you missed the point I responsed to as to why we should care about other teams in our conference doing well in NCAA...of course I want the CONFERENCE TEAMS TO DO WELL in the NCAAs...it means $$$ to the Conference coffers that get paid out to every team in the conference...of course how those teams play has little to do with 'Cuse specifically except for $$$ gained.

I completely got your point. The extra dollars generated from another BE team's success is like the proverbial pimple on the elephant's behind. It really is immaterial in it's impact for SU. I see zero correlation. How do you explain UK? The SEChas done bupkis over the last 5-6 years but UK has been fine. Was Butler able to make two NC games in a row because of the success of the Horizon League?

 

[bpo57]

It's a simple concept, the same as "strength of schedule". If the teams you played do well, you look better. Your wins look more impressive and you losses not as bad. If the conference you are in does well, you look better for having been a contender in that conference and if you conference tanks, that's egg on everybody's faces.

It's so simple because it's meaningless. So we look better in someone's eyes. To whom are we looking better to? UConn has had a few great years where the rest of the BE did nothing. Did UConn have egg on their faces when the others failed those years? No offense but your point of view, which you have argued on an annual basis, just makes zero sense.

SU has been in the high profile BE for 30+ years and now we move to the high profile ACC. Both conferences have huge media exposure and plenty of dollars to be spread around. It's a given that the conference will be competitive. Whether SU succeeds will be based on recruiting and coaching simple as that. And whether our BE brethren do well in the NCAAs has nothing to do with that. Look at UK, KU, Memphis and Butler. Four teams that have enjoyed big success at one time or another over the last 6-7 years. As those four teams were thriving their counterparts in their respective conferences were doing little to nothing in the NCAAs. Go figure.

 

[SWC75]

IIt's a given that the conference will be competitive.

No it isn't. You've got to win. If SU has great post season success on it's own, fine. But if it doesn't, our reputation rides on who we played.

 

[kirbivore]

He referred to SU and the football schools as pimps for using them and then leaving the BE and then said:

"We officially closed Syracuse and now we kiss them goodbye".

I see it as the football schools carried around their dead carcasses for way too many years. The football schools should have said FU to Providence in the late 90's when FSU, Clemson, and GT were ripe for plucking from the ACC.

 

[bpo57]

No it isn't. You've got to win. If SU has great post season success on it's own, fine. But if it doesn't, our reputation rides on who we played.

So you say our reputation rides on who we play and that we'll have egg on our face if those teams do poorly in the NCAAs. And here I thought SU's reputation was tied to how SU played overall and that the only time SU had egg on its face was when it was upset in the tournament ala Richmond, Vermont, etc. Silly me- I never knew we should be embarrassed when another BE team plays poorly in the NCAAs.

 

[Noexcuse]

So you say our reputation rides on who we play and that we'll have egg on our face if those teams do poorly in the NCAAs. And here I thought SU's reputation was tied to how SU played overall and that the only time SU had egg on its face was when it was upset in the tournament ala Richmond, Vermont, etc. Silly me- I never knew we should be embarrassed when another BE team plays poorly in the NCAAs.

I see what you're saying about SU's rep is in it's own hands with respect to the tourney, but I think there is something to be said about Conference tourney success as it relates to SU regardless of how well we do or not do. Think back to a couple of years ago when the Big East pretty much was eliminated at the Sweet 16 level and how everyone was referring to the Conference as the Big Easy. That definitely rubbed off on us as well as everyone else in the Conference.

 

[bpo57]

I see what you're saying about SU's rep is in it's own hands with respect to the tourney, but I think there is something to be said about Conference tourney success as it relates to SU regardless of how well we do or not do. Think back to a couple of years ago when the Big East pretty much was eliminated at the Sweet 16 level and how everyone was referring to the Conference as the Big Easy. That definitely rubbed off on us as well as everyone else in the Conference.

I hear ya but to me it's kind of a minor PR thing and is not anything very material. It shouldn't affect recruiting etc. And besides, conference success tends to be cyclical anyway. Bottom line if UConn and Gtown had several great runs in the tourney I just don't see how that accrues to SU's benefit and vice versa. In fact in all likelihood it would only make those schools more attractive in comparison to SU.

 

[Chip]

Thompson has no class, never really did. He's probably too dumb to realize that SU's move had more to do with football survival than basketball.

But at least he's smart enough to realize that this is SU's gain, which is why he's so bothered by it. That part makes me smile.

 

[longtimefan]

Hmm...its called NCAA credits that go to a conference of the teams that do well in the Big Dance...units are $$$. The deeper a team goes in the Big Dance, more $$$ are earned by its conference. For example, the BE has earned nearly $30 million in NCAA credits in the past year....dollars received each year are based on payouts from, I believe, six years ago moving forward. These $$$ are then distributed equally among the conference's members. Unfortunately, these credits do not go with the teams that won them if that team leaves the conference...so 'Cuse, Pitt, Louisville, WVU, and Notre Dame, which won the most credits for games won in the BE are leaving without some $$$ earned over the credit payout period. Note that the New BE will get to take a lot of these credits with them...another fair split with the BE...

Except, once we announced we were leaving for the ACC, the BE announced that we (and Pitt) had forfeited all of their accrued credits. So, how GT or Nova, or UConn or anyone else we are leaving behind, does in the tournament has no impact on us at all.

A relevant question would be: When we will start getting paid as an ACC member for the credits we will earn going forward? I would guess that it will be 6 years before we see any of that money.

 

[SWC75]

So you say our reputation rides on who we play and that we'll have egg on our face if those teams do poorly in the NCAAs. And here I thought SU's reputation was tied to how SU played overall and that the only time SU had egg on its face was when it was upset in the tournament ala Richmond, Vermont, etc. Silly me- I never knew we should be embarrassed when another BE team plays poorly in the NCAAs.

How often have you heard a team's accomplishments questioned because of a weak strength of schedule or a weak conference? The reputation of the Big East was built up over the years by winning non-conference games and NCAA tournament games and all big East teams have benefited from that. If the conference started losing those games, the reputation would go away after a while and that would reduce the reputations of the teams in the conference. The same will be true of the ACC. As I said it's a simple concept. The truth of it should be obvious.

I started out by saying that this was a year when we didn't have to have this argument and yet, we are having it anyway. I'm going to break off our dialog on this at this point. You can root for and against whomever you want and so can I. Let's leave it at that.

 

[bpo57]

You had your final word and I'll have mine. And I know I am not changing your mind cuz you cling to your view like a dog to a bone.

You do a great job of mixing apples and oranges. You talk about strength of schedule. That takes place prior to the tournament.

You say what happens if the conference started losing games? Well you don't have to look far cuz the BE has pretty much stunk it up in 3 of the last 5 tournaments and yet here they are with two teams in the top 10 this year and SU's recruiting has been pretty damn good over the last few years. There is zero correlation. As long as the conference is reasonably competitive then SU is fine. We don't need our rivals to go deep in the tournament. When I think of all of the things that are important to SU's success now and in the future- having our conference rivals go on long tournament runs is down near the bottom of the list.

 

[Flora'cuse]

apparently did quite a bit of grave dancing in the post game conference today. Please remember that in a couple of weeks when somebody here says we should be rooting for the Hoyas in the tourney because they're our BE brethren.

Our Big East Brethren? Our Big East Brethren?
I would rather lose an NCAA championship to a D3 school, than to lose in a charity, exhibition, preseason game of coaches wives and players girlfriends against them before I would root for Georgetown.

It's 8:43 am and Georgetown Still Sucks

 

[Flora'cuse]

BTW - It's March 12th, and Georgetown ... ... ...

 

[bpo57]

Our Big East Brethren? Our Big East Brethren?
I would rather lose an NCAA championship to a D3 school, than to lose in a charity, exhibition, preseason game of coaches wives and players girlfriends against them before I would root for Georgetown.

It's 8:43 am and Georgetown Still Sucks

No kidding. That's my point but according to SWC, and a few others, SU benefits when Gtown wins NCAA tournament games. You didn't know that?

 

[Flora'cuse]

No kidding. That's my point but according to SWC, and a few others, SU benefits when Gtown wins NCAA tournament games. You didn't know that?

Actually - I understood your point exactly, I was making a point for all the - "Well let's all cheer for the BE team" people out there ... ... ... not if it GTown, not now, not ever. Thug U can kiss my orange.