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Thoughts

sutomcat

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When Syracuse will Start Play in the ACC?

I think a big factor determining when SU and Pitt will start playing in the ACC is the time frame for the Big 12 schools about to defect to the Pac 12.

If they start play in the Pac 12 (16) next year, which I expect given that there won't be a Big 12 anymore to hold their feet to the fire, the remaining Big 12 schools will need a home immediately and the Big East will need to accomodate them immediately (as in next season).

I can understand wanting to retain SU and Pitt in a Big East football conference with only 7 members the next 2 years. But if they take the Big 12 survivors, which I think is going to happen, there really isn't a need to SU and Pitt...it will just make a crowded Big East even more hard to deal with, especially for sports other than basketball, where 2 schools leaving are replacing with 6 schools coming in (TCU, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa State and Baylor).

If the SEC grabs a couple, things really don't change much...it would still be impractical and foolish to try and make league scheduling work where the number of teams in the conference changes 3 times in 3 years.

So unless the Big 12 move to the Pac 12 derails, I think Pitt and Syracuse end up playing in the ACC next season.

ND and Their Future Conference Affiliation

If ND decides to stay in the Big East, they have to assume UConn and either Rutgers or West Virginia goes to the ACC. The 4 teams lost would be replaced by Big 12 refugees. That would leave a league that would be decimated pretty badly for basketball. If the BE was able to retain Kansas, Missouri, Kansas St and say West Virginia, it would still be good enough when coupled with UL, UC, GTown and Nova to get some games on TV. But it would be a clear step down from what the BE was before. The money and exposure would be reduced.

Worst case scenario for them is that the SEC takes say Kansas and Missouri, maybe Kansas State too before the BE can lock them up. That would reduce the league to near Atlantic 10 status. No Big Monday hoops, the league tournament would be played on ESPNU, this would surely be unacceptable for ND.

I assume ND was told they need to make a decision on whether to join the ACC by the end of the week...something like what the ACC told us and Pitt last week.

Do they hope for the best and stay with the Big East, knowing UConn and Rutgers or WVU will also be leaving and that once that happens, they are locked out of the ACC forever?

Do they throw in with the ACC?

Or do they opt for the Big 10?

I think they will probably buy some more time by opting to stay with the Big East, hope it can retain all the Big 12 refugees and thereby continue to stay independent in football a while longer.

If they opt for the Big 10, that conference will need at least one more member. One assumes if this happens, UConn and RU (maybe WVU) will join the ACC, so the Big Ten can add Missouri, WVU or RU, whoever is left, or Kansas. Doubt they would take 3 to get to 16 but maybe that will happen.

The big thing here is that ND has been able to bid time and leave their options for the future open since this whole thing started. Sounds like the ACC is going to 16 shortly, with or without them. Their options are finally dwindling.
 

rrlbees

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I think the BE/B12 might be reversed. What I see happening is the Big East becoming a basketball only conference and retaining the name while the BE football leftovers join the B12 leftovers.
 

orangehomer

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ND and Their Future Conference Affiliation

If ND decides to stay in the Big East, they have to assume UConn and either Rutgers or West Virginia goes to the ACC. The 4 teams lost would be replaced by Big 12 refugees. That would leave a league that would be decimated pretty badly for basketball. If the BE was able to retain Kansas, Missouri, Kansas St and say West Virginia, it would still be good enough when coupled with UL, UC, GTown and Nova to get some games on TV. But it would be a clear step down from what the BE was before. The money and exposure would be reduced.

Worst case scenario for them is that the SEC takes say Kansas and Missouri, maybe Kansas State too before the BE can lock them up. That would reduce the league to near Atlantic 10 status. No Big Monday hoops, the league tournament would be played on ESPNU, this would surely be unacceptable for ND.

I assume ND was told they need to make a decision on whether to join the ACC by the end of the week...something like what the ACC told us and Pitt last week.

Do they hope for the best and stay with the Big East, knowing UConn and Rutgers or WVU will also be leaving and that once that happens, they are locked out of the ACC forever?

Do they throw in with the ACC?

Or do they opt for the Big 10?

I think they will probably buy some more time by opting to stay with the Big East, hope it can retain all the Big 12 refugees and thereby continue to stay independent in football a while longer.

If they opt for the Big 10, that conference will need at least one more member. One assumes if this happens, UConn and RU (maybe WVU) will join the ACC, so the Big Ten can add Missouri, WVU or RU, whoever is left, or Kansas. Doubt they would take 3 to get to 16 but maybe that will happen.

The big thing here is that ND has been able to bid time and leave their options for the future open since this whole thing started. Sounds like the ACC is going to 16 shortly, with or without them. Their options are finally dwindling.

the thing that i am unclear on is who the pressure is actually on right now. is it on notre dame to pick a conference, or is it on the acc to get to 16. i think the choices for the acc are 1. notre dame 1a. texas 2. uconn 3. rutgers 4. wvu. but what is the priority for the big ten? maybe something like 1. notre dame 1a. texas, but then who? i think texas is out for either league. the question is, if the big ten locked notre dame, would they reach for rutgers and uconn to try to claim NYC? if that is possible, how long can the acc wait for ND?
 

Moontan

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I think the BE/B12 might be reversed. What I see happening is the Big East becoming a basketball only conference and retaining the name while the BE football leftovers join the B12 leftovers.
Which actually makes the most sense... with the hoops-onlies retaining the BE name, and most of the BE football programs not really being in the east. They can invite one or two more to get to 12. A renaming of the conference is probably in order, however. The Big Mid West sounds wonderful. :)
 

CuseLegacy

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I think the BE/B12 might be reversed. What I see happening is the Big East becoming a basketball only conference and retaining the name while the BE football leftovers join the B12 leftovers.
I agree. I think that the BE will end up being a BB conference only. Unfortunately, some of the BE FB teams, because of the numbers when forming 4 16 team conferences, will be left out with nowhere to go...most likely UC and UL. ND will continue to be arrogant and live in it's own universe.
 

Noexcuse

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the thing that i am unclear on is who the pressure is actually on right now. is it on notre dame to pick a conference, or is it on the acc to get to 16. i think the choices for the acc are 1. notre dame 1a. texas 2. uconn 3. rutgers 4. wvu. but what is the priority for the big ten? maybe something like 1. notre dame 1a. texas, but then who? i think texas is out for either league. the question is, if the big ten locked notre dame, would they reach for rutgers and uconn to try to claim NYC? if that is possible, how long can the acc wait for ND?

Pressure is on Notre Dame at this point. They have already lost 2 of the schools they wanted to be associated with. They can remain Independent and see where the chips fall with respect to their other sports and hope that there will always be a market for their football team. Or end up in the B1G by default without any negotiating cache.
 

orangehomer

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the thing that i am unclear on is who the pressure is actually on right now. is it on notre dame to pick a conference, or is it on the acc to get to 16. i think the choices for the acc are 1. notre dame 1a. texas 2. uconn 3. rutgers 4. wvu. but what is the priority for the big ten? maybe something like 1. notre dame 1a. texas, but then who? i think texas is out for either league. the question is, if the big ten locked notre dame, would they reach for rutgers and uconn to try to claim NYC? if that is possible, how long can the acc wait for ND?

Pressure is on Notre Dame at this point. They have already lost 2 of the schools they wanted to be associated with. They can remain Independent and see where the chips fall with respect to their other sports and hope that there will always be a market for their football team. Or end up in the B1G by default without any negotiating cache.
but if the acc waits on notre dame, is there a risk that notre dame goes to the big ten taking uconn and rutgers with it, where does that leave the acc? west virginia + ?
 

Noexcuse

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Sounds like the ACC isn't going to wait long to make the move to 16. And, not that it couldn't happen quickly, but the last time the B1G started an expansion project it went on for months. I'm not sure Notre Dame would care if UConn or Rutgers came with them but Penn State may want another Eastern school or 2 to join them.
 

sutomcat

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Don't think the Big Ten would ever take ND, UConn and RU together. ND alone is sufficient, along with Penn State, to dominate the NYC market and get the Big Ten network on in the greater metro NYC area.

If I were the Big Ten and ND asked to join, I would add Mizzou with them and stop at 14. Could always bid time to get Texas, UMd, or some other big fish at some point in the future.
 

orangehomer

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Don't think the Big Ten would ever take ND, UConn and RU together. ND alone is sufficient, along with Penn State, to dominate the NYC market and get the Big Ten network on in the greater metro NYC area.

If I were the Big Ten and ND asked to join, I would add Mizzou with them and stop at 14. Could always bid time to get Texas, UMd, or some other big fish at some point in the future.
this is pretty much what i think too, which is why i don't think the acc is in a major hurry to get to 16. they can sit tight and wait to see what notre dame does, even if it is a year or two.
 

upperdeck

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I wonder if PSU would want in the ACC with ND if Paterno was gone.. seems like much easier travel for the sports which they have complained about. It gets them back in with the eastern schools and that completely locks down the east coast
 

Louie&Bouie

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I think the pressure is finally, and fully, on ND. They have to realize that their FB options are dwindling rapidly. Interestingly, I think if they (ND) caves and joins the ACC, you will see a full-court press put on PSU.

The ACC would have the power to compete with the B10 for PSU's affections. I know that the CIC may prohibit this from happening, but those conversations (with PSU) would happen...could their loyalties/affectations to the NE football schools be JoePa's last hurrah? An ACC with ND and PSU is more attractive on paper than the current B10.

Say what you want about Swofford, but he had the balls to put the ball in motion, and he may just come out of this smelling and looking like roses.
 

Rocco

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Someone posted yesterday regarding PSU and the Big Ten Network. At this point, it would make no sense for PSU to join the ACC and give up their interests in the BTN, which has been quite successful. In order for PSU to join the ACC (which makes geographically), the ACC would have to create some sort of similar network. If ND and PSU were to both get to the ACC, one would think that the ACC tv deal would be huge based on the dominance of the whole eastern seaboard, especially NYC (ND, SU, PSU, Pitt). It would be larger than the B1G's BTN, therefore, giving the ACC a leg up on the B1G for PSU's affiliation.

I am sure it is way more complex than that, but it makes sense from a macroeconomic perspective.

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All4SU

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I think the BE/B12 might be reversed. What I see happening is the Big East becoming a basketball only conference and retaining the name while the BE football leftovers join the B12 leftovers.

Exactly. That's my guess too. At the point where the writing is on the wall, there will be no point for SJU, GTown, Nova, Providence, Marquette, et al to try to cob together an alliance with the football schools.
 

Rocco

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Also have the leftover BE bball schools combine with the A10 to create a pretty damn good bball league.

SJU
GTOWN
PROV
SHU
NOVA
DEPAUL
MARQ
XAV
DAYTON
ST JOES
BONNIES
GW
RICH
UMASS
TEMPLE
ST LOUIS
CHARLOTTE
DUQUESNE
FORDHAM
LA SALLE

maybe get rid of fordham and la salle and stay at 18


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jekelish

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Someone posted yesterday regarding PSU and the Big Ten Network. At this point, it would make no sense for PSU to join the ACC and give up their interests in the BTN, which has been quite successful. In order for PSU to join the ACC (which makes geographically), the ACC would have to create some sort of similar network. If ND and PSU were to both get to the ACC, one would think that the ACC tv deal would be huge based on the dominance of the whole eastern seaboard, especially NYC (ND, SU, PSU, Pitt). It would be larger than the B1G's BTN, therefore, giving the ACC a leg up on the B1G for PSU's affiliation.

I am sure it is way more complex than that, but it makes sense from a macroeconomic perspective.

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The ACC does have its own network. It's not as well known or as big as the Big Ten Network at this point, but it does exist. Looking at the ACC Network website, it appears that every game on the ACC Network is available both on ESPN3 and ESPN Gameplan, as well.
 

Scooch

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The ACC does have its own network. It's not as well known or as big as the Big Ten Network at this point, but it does exist. Looking at the ACC Network website, it appears that every game on the ACC Network is available both on ESPN3 and ESPN Gameplan, as well.

It's a network in the way that the BE has a network. It's syndicated games, not a 24/7 cable channel.
 

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