Tiny bit of info

[SUFaninNJ]

now he needs to grow some dreads. He will be perfect then. I love south florida players. straight ballers

Maybe PTG kept his old ones and Estime can use them as extensions.

 

[sufandu]

Agreed. Mason put together a nice season. Had a big arm.

He moved well too. That team suffered from the switch to a 4-3 with young undersized linebackers. I remember Nate Hemsley playing at 195 lbs as a freshman in either '93 or '94.

 

[OttoMets]

He moved well too. That team suffered from the switch to a 4-3 with young undersized linebackers. I remember Nate Hemsley playing at 195 lbs as a freshman in either '93 or '94.

I think part of the problem did have to do with Hemsley, but the light weight was the previous year. If I'm not mistaken, he caught a helmet to the knee during the Oklahoma game and missed the rest of the season. Too bad - Conley and Ponds had decent years. We went 7-4 but were two points away from 8-3 (one-point loss to Oklahoma) and a bowl invitation.

Mason got a bad rap at the time, but he did arguably better than Graves did the year before (with a worse team, no less).

 

[sufandu]

I think part of the problem did have to do with Hemsley, but the light weight was the previous year. If I'm not mistaken, he caught a helmet to the knee during the Oklahoma game and missed the rest of the season. Too bad - Conley and Ponds had decent years. We went 7-4 but were two points away from 8-3 (one-point loss to Oklahoma) and a bowl invitation.

Mason got a bad rap at the time, but he did arguably better than Graves did the year before (with a worse team, no less).

Just to be clear, I didn't want to insult Hemsley. He ended up being a pretty solid player if I remember right. It just took him a while to grow into his position. That year he was a freshman, I think all of our starting linebackers were small freshman. We just hadn't been able to recruit and develop guys that were ready to replace Glen Young, Garland Hawkins, and JoJo Wooden, and we were trying the whole move safeties to linebacker thing to get faster. Had Conley gotten hurt again in '93? I don't know that Mason was better than Graves. Graves had that horrible defense and the running game wasn't anywhere near as good as his junior year. He had lost Ismail and Gedney too. He still set the single season passing yardage record that stood until last year. Our defense starting maturing again just in time for that McNabb kid to take the job.

 

[OttoMets]

Just to be clear, I didn't want to insult Hemsley. He ended up being a pretty solid player if I remember right. It just took him a while to grow into his position. That year he was a freshman, I think all of our starting linebackers were small freshman. We just hadn't been able to recruit and develop guys that were ready to replace Glen Young, Garland Hawkins, and JoJo Wooden, and we were trying the whole move safeties to linebacker thing to get faster. Had Conley gotten hurt again in '93? I don't know that Mason was better than Graves. Graves had that horrible defense and the running game wasn't anywhere near as good as his junior year. He had lost Ismail and Gedney too. He still set the single season passing yardage record that stood until last year. Our defense starting maturing again just in time for that McNabb kid to take the job.

Good points, all. (And I'd forgotten that Hemsley played in the NFL for a few years.)

I wouldn't really say that Mason was better than Graves, but it always seemed strange that Mason took so much blame for a bowl-less 7-4 in '94 while responsibility for 6-5 in the previous season rested with everyone but the quarterback. As you note, maybe Graves gets a pass because he was a four-year guy with great career numbers.

 

[Moontan]

As you note, maybe Graves gets a pass because he was a four-year guy with great career numbers.

Graves gets a pass for one game at WfVU.

 

[All4SU]

I just can't envision that. Allen is going to be tough to beat out.

You're probably right. But everyone has so far.

 

[Moontan]

I just can't envision that. Allen is going to be tough to beat out.

I wouldn't mind seeing Hunt in there for 2-3 series a game, similar to Nassib in FHCDM's first year.

 

[money3189]

http://articles.philly.com/1992-01-25/sports/26034341_1_football-recruits-fumble-recoveries-rutgers

I also saw an article of Jason Poles on philly.com. when he was being recruited. Our reputation was strong in those area back then. Its nice that the current staff is targeting that area hard.

 

[sufandu]

Good points, all. (And I'd forgotten that Hemsley played in the NFL for a few years.)

I wouldn't really say that Mason was better than Graves, but it always seemed strange that Mason took so much blame for a bowl-less 7-4 in '94 while responsibility for 6-5 in the previous season rested with everyone but the quarterback. As you note, maybe Graves gets a pass because he was a four-year guy with great career numbers.

You're right, Mason shouldn't have to take blame for that. Aside from Harrison, the cupboard was bare. That's why we had an all freshman backfield in '95 (McNabb, Konrad, and McIntosh). I'm sure Graves got the pass just for the reason you mention. Three bowl wins, two 10 win seasons, and a top 10 ranking will do that for you.

 

[SUFan44]

http://articles.philly.com/1992-01-25/sports/26034341_1_football-recruits-fumble-recoveries-rutgers

I also fought an article of Jason Poles on philly.com. when he was being recruited. Our reputation was strong in those area back then. Its nice that the current staff is targeting that area hard.

Loved Hemsley and Antwaune Ponds on those teams. Good players. Ponds wasn't the same player after he got hurt - could have been one of the better LB's we have had at SU IMO.

 

[OttoMets]

You're right, Mason shouldn't have to take blame for that. Aside from Harrison, the cupboard was bare. That's why we had an all freshman backfield in '95 (McNabb, Konrad, and McIntosh). I'm sure Graves got the pass just for the reason you mention. Three bowl wins, two 10 win seasons, and a top 10 ranking will do that for you.

I'm a little too young to remember what went wrong, but there were some good pieces on both of those teams. Was line play a problem? We intercepted only 17 passes in those two years - 9 in '93 and 8 in '94 - so maybe we weren't getting a pass rush. On the other side, I don't know. Tuten was well-regarded, but maybe he didn't have great players alongside him.

With Hill, Dar Dar, Richardson, Harrison, and Wooten, it looks like Marvin Graves had some options. Mason lost Hill (and Wilson and Maddox were not yet able to pick up the slack) but was lucky to have Malcolm Thomas step up to complement Dar Dar.

Also, oddly enough, Young Hemsley led the team in tackles in '93. Not a lot of upperclass names on that list. Kevin Mitchell, Wilky Bazile, and a whole bunch of guys who either weren't standouts or wouldn't be big performers for two or three more years.

 

[RF2044]

You're probably right. But everyone has so far.

Strange comparison. Oklahoma gets top flight prospects every year at QB. That isn't [or hasn't] been the case here the last few years.

 

[All4SU]

Strange comparison. Oklahoma gets top flight prospects every year at QB. That isn't [or hasn't] been the case here the last few years.

True. But Nassib was pretty good too. Allen hasn't proven anything by being beat out every year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not rooting against the kid. But I won't root against Hunt or Loeb or Kinder either. But Allen isn't going to be given the spot just because he came from the Sooners. He's got to beat out the competition. May the best player win...or more accurately, may the player who has the best chance to help SU win, win the battle.

 

[anomander]

I'm a little too young to remember what went wrong, but there were some good pieces on both of those teams. Was line play a problem? We intercepted only 17 passes in those two years - 9 in '93 and 8 in '94 - so maybe we weren't getting a pass rush. On the other side, I don't know. Tuten was well-regarded, but maybe he didn't have great players alongside him.

With Hill, Dar Dar, Richardson, Harrison, and Wooten, it looks like Marvin Graves had some options. Mason lost Hill (and Wilson and Maddox were not yet able to pick up the slack) but was lucky to have Malcolm Thomas step up to complement Dar Dar.

Also, oddly enough, Young Hemsley led the team in tackles in '93. Not a lot of upperclass names on that list. Kevin Mitchell, Wilky Bazile, and a whole bunch of guys who either weren't standouts or wouldn't be big performers for two or three more years.

Our offensive lines have never been dominant. we always had great skill position players, and enough difference makers on defense, but in those years it always seemed our weakness if we had one was O-line. It was so refreshing last year actually having a dominant offensive line. That was the best we've been at that unit since I could remember.

 

[VaSaltine]

It worked out ok when Kevin Mason was the bridge from Graves to McNabb.

The only thing I remember about Mason is the hook-em horns he threw up after any big play he made.

 

[SUinNYC]

The only thing I remember about Mason is the hook-em horns he threw up after any big play he made.

Pretty sure that was the shocker.

 

[RF2044]

True. But Nassib was pretty good too. Allen hasn't proven anything by being beat out every year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not rooting against the kid. But I won't root against Hunt or Loeb or Kinder either. But Allen isn't going to be given the spot just because he came from the Sooners. He's got to beat out the competition. May the best player win...or more accurately, may the player who has the best chance to help SU win, win the battle.

Nassib didn't overlap with Allen.

And I don't care which of the players win the job--I'll support whichever one does. But Allen has spent three years playing against top caliber competition every day in practice. I have difficulty envisioning that he won't be the most prepared of the group. He won't be handed anything because he came from the Sooners, but he wasn't brought in to hold a clipboard, either.

 

[All4SU]

Nassib didn't overlap with Allen. I KNOW THAT!

And I don't care which of the players win the job--I'll support whichever one does. But Allen has spent three years playing against top caliber competition every day in practice. I have difficulty envisioning that he won't be the most prepared of the group. He won't be handed anything because he came from the Sooners, but he wasn't brought in to hold a clipboard, either.

And Hunt and LOeb got beat out by a pretty good QB too.

 

[sufandu]

I'm a little too young to remember what went wrong, but there were some good pieces on both of those teams. Was line play a problem? We intercepted only 17 passes in those two years - 9 in '93 and 8 in '94 - so maybe we weren't getting a pass rush. On the other side, I don't know. Tuten was well-regarded, but maybe he didn't have great players alongside him.

With Hill, Dar Dar, Richardson, Harrison, and Wooten, it looks like Marvin Graves had some options. Mason lost Hill (and Wilson and Maddox were not yet able to pick up the slack) but was lucky to have Malcolm Thomas step up to complement Dar Dar.

Also, oddly enough, Young Hemsley led the team in tackles in '93. Not a lot of upperclass names on that list. Kevin Mitchell, Wilky Bazile, and a whole bunch of guys who either weren't standouts or wouldn't be big performers for two or three more years.

I think it was a number of things. The '92 team had a ton of upperclassmen that graduated. We lost most of our LB's with playing time. Kevin Mitchell was moved to try and help that, but left a big hole on the d-line. I think three of the top 4 receivers graduated. Hill was a senior and Harrison was a sophomore in '93, but there wasn't much behind them. I think our o-line and defense as a whole took a lot of hits, and it took time to reload those. By '95 those were coming around again.

 

[sufandu]

The only thing I remember about Mason is the hook-em horns he threw up after any big play he made.

I remember him running for his life a lot.