Title ix vs cost of scholie

[Hoo's That]

I wouldn't mind if players had to pay their own way if it also meant that schools didn't get tv contracts in the 20-40 million range plus bowl money plus ncaa tourney money plus merchandise money plus ticket money, etc. There is a gross hypocrisy that we want the schools to get more and more money but we balk when the players that generated that income were to share in a tiny percentage.

I would wager that Malachi Richardson made SU more money in 6 minutes than the entire 2016 roster's scholarship costs combined. Kevin Sumlin should be thanking Johnny Football every day for his six year guaranteed 30 million.

You guys are starting to sound an awful lot like the elder John Thompson (How's THAT for an insult!). He was incensed that the bball TV money was going to the non-revs. That's right. Those billions that the NCAA make pay the meal and travel money of the MLax and WLax teams in the NCAAT. And for D-2 swimmers. And D-3 field hockey players. The money that the individual schools get goes toward their non-rev' expenses. I'm sorry. I have less than no sympathy for them whatsoever, and I'll lose even more when I look at the bill I'm about to get from my son's college. Sadly, for most of them, if it wasn't for sports, they'd have to do real work for a living. As it is, most of them have an ego that says they'll be part of the miniscule number that makes the pros for a career, rather than having to rely on a degree for a job. Yeah, right.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

many of these kids already qualify for pell grants and get the free money. i guess kids getting college for free should also have more money to do things that other kids who are paying for college cant afford. should the kids playing for cornell apply for the money too since they dont get any money or a scholarship?

we could go back to the old way of the 30-40s and make everyone pay

You mean in addition to the athletic scholarships poor athletes are getting pell grants ALSO??? Link please.

AND up through probably the 1960s the costs of a private university was such that a student could pay by working during the school year and during the summer. That covered most if not all the expenses. Try doing THAT today. And of course many public universities were tuition FREE till the early 70s.

And you ignored my point that non athletes on scholarship may earn money.

 

[PoppyHart]

Give them 25% minimum of the revenue from merchandising with their name/number while they are wearing the number during school and of the name merchandise after they leave school as well. I'm sure SU for one still sells clothes with Carmelo's name on it. Is he seeing a penny of that? I don't care what he makes as a pro, he should get paid for college merchandise if he isn't already as should all former players who fit the conditions.

And all scholarship players for the big sports should get a cash stipend for walking around money, say 50 a week when school is in session. That might not be enough, I have no idea what things cost on campus now. Maybe 75 a week. So they can say go to a movie on an off night and take a date. Buy a few comic books if they're into them. Or a video game a month. Things that every other student on scholarship can do because they can earn money without forfeiting their scholarship.

Merchandising is an interesting area, but I doubt it moves the needle outside of the top-tier prospects. My understanding is that the apparel makers are the real bread winners here, not the schools, though I'm sure for the Carmelo's of the world it really adds up. For every "authentic" jersey sold at retail for $75, I wonder how much the university pockets. $10?

The model of not paying them seems (somewhat) analogous to a researcher at a university or company not owning a patent developed with school resources. They understand the trade-off (funding, access to world-class equipment, access to cheap student labor) and make the bargain all the time.

 

[Phillymoose]

NCAA is more akin to robber baron than 'socialism' IMO.

How about this?. we pay the athletes $50K in cash but NOT pay for tuition, room and board. Maybe Dave can get his head around that?
We can also stop using the shackles each evening.

no...wait..

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Merchandising is an interesting area, but I doubt it moves the needle outside of the top-tier prospects. My understanding is that the apparel makers are the real bread winners here, not the schools, though I'm sure for the Carmelo's of the world it really adds up. For every "authentic" jersey sold at retail for $75, I wonder how much the university pockets. $10?

The model of not paying them seems (somewhat) analogous to a researcher at a university or company not owning a patent developed with school resources. They understand the trade-off (funding, access to world-class equipment, access to cheap student labor) and make the bargain all the time.

So let's say you are correct and the university gets $10 per jersey with the student athlete's name/number. The student should then get $2.50 a jersey with 25% as the baseline. Sell 1000 jerseys a year, that's $2500.00 to the athlete, which will provide a decent amount of spending money for a year. Sell more, make more. Sell fewer, make less. It's all due to the popularity of that athlete. A reasonably fair system.

 

[pfister1]

So let's say you are correct and the university gets $10 per jersey with the student athlete's name/number. The student should then get $2.50 a jersey with 25% as the baseline. Sell 1000 jerseys a year, that's $2500.00 to the athlete, which will provide a decent amount of spending money for a year. Sell more, make more. Sell fewer, make less. It's all due to the popularity of that athlete. A reasonably fair system.

Unless I'm missing an outlet, nothing sanctioned gets sold with player names on it. They sell jerseys with number, but no names. So if you bought Andy Rautins' #1 Jersey you could have reused it with MCW and again with Franklin Howard, assuming Nike and the University didn't remove/add duct tape and change the script etc. But anyway the point is I don't think the University seeks to make money directly merchandising the athletes' likenesses.

 

[upperdeck]

just one example .. in 2014 it was about 6K. http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2014/01/27/pell-grants-not-a-substitute-for-stipend.htm, of course not all qualify but if its really about someone having $25 a week the poorest would actually have a decent chunk of money.

food money is not the issue the way most schools run the room/board part now, my kid cant even spend all the money he has for food on his meal plan. movie money would be different i guess. but do kids even do that at school now?

 

[Hoo's That]

Unless I'm missing an outlet, nothing sanctioned gets sold with player names on it. They sell jerseys with number, but no names. So if you bought Andy Rautins' #1 Jersey you could have reused it with MCW and again with Franklin Howard, assuming Nike and the University didn't remove/add duct tape and change the script etc. But anyway the point is I don't think the University seeks to make money directly merchandising the athletes' likenesses.

The likenesses came in with the video games. The lawsuit as over the idea that the "NCAA {year}" video game, that the NCAA got money for licensing the use of it trademarks from EA Sports(?), used Ed Bannon's name, number, and likeness playing for the UCLA team in the game without his permission. This was long after Bannon finished playing for UCLA, so it wasn't a question of paying a current athlete. I'm pretty sure that the jerseys, etc., sold by the official UVa outlets only have numbers and are without names.

 

[pfister1]

The likenesses came in with the video games. The lawsuit as over the idea that the "NCAA {year}" video game, that the NCAA got money for licensing the use of it trademarks from EA Sports(?), used Ed Bannon's name, number, and likeness playing for the UCLA team in the game without his permission. This was long after Bannon finished playing for UCLA, so it wasn't a question of paying a current athlete. I'm pretty sure that the jerseys, etc., sold by the official UVa outlets only have numbers and are without names.

It's interesting because they actually haven't made the Basketball games in several years. I think my kids have an old 2009 version. A couple of years ago the younger kid wanted the "new version" for Christmas, but there was no new version, so we ended up buying him a used version of the last year they made it. I don't think they've made it since then.

 

[Hoo's That]

It's interesting because they actually haven't made the Basketball games in several years. I think my kids have an old 2009 version. A couple of years ago the younger kid wanted the "new version" for Christmas, but there was no new version, so we ended up buying him a used version of the last year they made it. I don't think they've made it since then.

You're right. They stopped authorizing new ones when the lawsuit began.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Unless I'm missing an outlet, nothing sanctioned gets sold with player names on it. They sell jerseys with number, but no names. So if you bought Andy Rautins' #1 Jersey you could have reused it with MCW and again with Franklin Howard, assuming Nike and the University didn't remove/add duct tape and change the script etc. But anyway the point is I don't think the University seeks to make money directly merchandising the athletes' likenesses.

You appear to be correct. I looked at Manny's online and searched for both Carmelo and Malachi's names and nothing appeared for sale. And I agree, you can't pay a player just by number, unless the number is retired, and even that's legally a stretch.

 

[two3zone]

Do you understand that barter is an exchange of things of value? Good.

Cash is an analog - something that is exchanged in lieu of exchanging some good or service, having been assigned a value based on communal trust. Just because someone isn't paid cash doesn't mean they are not being paid.

If you worked a job, and someone provided you a house and food instead of giving you paper money, would you say you were not getting paid?

Weren't slaves provided food and shelter while maximizing profits for the governing body of the land they worked on?

At first I kinda laughed at the slave remark but thinking about these 12 kids on scholarship for Syracuse alone and the amount of money the program brings in, paying them peanuts on the dollar in terms of a scholarship is almost crazy. I am a little surprised a legit minor league hasn't been created here in the United States as an alternative to college.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Weren't slaves provided food and shelter while maximizing profits for the governing body of the land they worked on?

At first I kinda laughed at the slave remark but thinking about these 12 kids on scholarship for Syracuse alone and the amount of money the program brings in, paying them peanuts on the dollar in terms of a scholarship is almost crazy. I am a little surprised a legit minor league hasn't been created here in the United States as an alternative to college.

My beef is that kids on non athletic scholarships can earn income from various sources during the school year. Work study, an off campus job, or sometimes something in their field. I had an acquaintance when I was at SU who was a harpist. I recall she would occasionally do session work, and not necessarily just during school breaks. We didn't discuss whether she was on a partial or full scholarship because of her musical talent, but I'd be surprised if she hadn't been. But student athletes can't earn $, hence the uproar and the NCAA penalizing SU for the kids who worked the scoreboard at the YMCA and got paid. I suppose they should have donated their very limited spare time...

 

[pfister1]

My beef is that kids on non athletic scholarships can earn income from various sources during the school year. Work study, an off campus job, or sometimes something in their field. I had an acquaintance when I was at SU who was a harpist. I recall she would occasionally do session work, and not necessarily just during school breaks. We didn't discuss whether she was on a partial or full scholarship because of her musical talent, but I'd be surprised if she hadn't been. But student athletes can't earn $, hence the uproar and the NCAA penalizing SU for the kids who worked the scoreboard at the YMCA and got paid. I suppose they should have donated their very limited spare time...

I believe it's a rule adopted to correct past abuses, like no show YMCA jobs. If you allow scholarship athletes to be paid how do you differentiate between what is a legitimate job at a legitimate rate of pay and what is essentially a no show job at an exorbitant rate along with every permutation in between. Should kids be able to work 10 hours a week at a going rate dipping ice cream at the ice cream parlor or reshelving books in the library, absolutely. Should they be allowed to be a cabana boy at the Dean's Club and receive thousands in tips from wealthy alumni, probably not.

As for the musician? No one is trying to insure an even playing field among the nation's collegiate music departments. If someone wants to give her a job giving music lessons to children for 1000s of dollars an hour...so be it.

 

[maxxyz]

My beef is that kids on non athletic scholarships can earn income from various sources during the school year. Work study, an off campus job, or sometimes something in their field. I had an acquaintance when I was at SU who was a harpist. I recall she would occasionally do session work, and not necessarily just during school breaks. We didn't discuss whether she was on a partial or full scholarship because of her musical talent, but I'd be surprised if she hadn't been. But student athletes can't earn $, hence the uproar and the NCAA penalizing SU for the kids who worked the scoreboard at the YMCA and got paid. I suppose they should have donated their very limited spare time...

Part of my daughter's scholarship requirements to grad school for library sciences was that she was not allowed to have any other employment. For a partial tuition scholarship and 10 hours a week of paid workstudy hours.

It's not just athletics.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Part of my daughter's scholarship requirements to grad school for library sciences was that she was not allowed to have any other employment. For a partial tuition scholarship and 10 hours a week of paid workstudy hours.

It's not just athletics.

.

I believe it's a rule adopted to correct past abuses, like no show YMCA jobs. If you allow scholarship athletes to be paid how do you differentiate between what is a legitimate job at a legitimate rate of pay and what is essentially a no show job at an exorbitant rate along with every permutation in between. Should kids be able to work 10 hours a week at a going rate dipping ice cream at the ice cream parlor or reshelving books in the library, absolutely. Should they be allowed to be a cabana boy at the Dean's Club and receive thousands in tips from wealthy alumni, probably not.

As for the musician? No one is trying to insure an even playing field among the nation's collegiate music departments. If someone wants to give her a job giving music lessons to children for 1000s of dollars an hour...so be it.

If you come from a middle class family which can afford to give you an allowance and you are on an athletic scholarship you will be fine for meeting basic needs. If, as many of the athletes who play basketball and perhaps football, you come from impoverished circumstances, your inability to earn any money whatsoever may mean not just not having the extras - like going to the movies - that most students can afford and take for granted - but depending on what after hours food is available you may go hungry as the Uconn player alleged. Up until recently one of the few foods required to be supplied to the athletes at all times was bagels. However cream cheese or other spreads were not mandated until very recently. Cream cheese for a bagel doesn't seem to me to be a luxury item. Again, it's the NCAA erring on the side of caution that punishes student athletes for the past abuses of a few.

And for your daughter who was allowed to earn 10 hours of paid work study, even at 7.25 an hour that's nearly $75 a week. Somehow I suspect a graduate student earned above the minimum wage. The student athletes can earn nothing. Yes, assuming they are in school the full four years and aren't injured and can complete a degree they have no loans to pay back, at least for undergraduate studies. But other categories of undergraduates get full rides too AND can earn $ while in school.

 

[maxxyz]

. If you come from a middle class family which can afford to give you an allowance and you are on an athletic scholarship you will be fine for meeting basic needs. If, as many of the athletes who play basketball and perhaps football, you come from impoverished circumstances, your inability to earn any money whatsoever may mean not just not having the extras - like going to the movies - that most students can afford and take for granted - but depending on what after hours food is available you may go hungry as the Uconn player alleged. Up until recently one of the few foods required to be supplied to the athletes at all times was bagels. However cream cheese or other spreads were not mandated until very recently. Cream cheese for a bagel doesn't seem to me to be a luxury item. Again, it's the NCAA erring on the side of caution that punishes student athletes for the past abuses of a few. And for your daughter who was allowed to earn 10 hours of paid work study, even at 7.25 an hour that's nearly $75 a week. Somehow I suspect a graduate student earned above the minimum wage. The student athletes can earn nothing. Yes, assuming they are in school the full four years and aren't injured and can complete a degree they have no loans to pay back, at least for undergraduate studies. But other categories of undergraduates get full rides too AND can earn $ while in school.

Impoverished athletes get PELL grants of up to $7000 a year. On top of the scholarship.

And I'll take the free meal plan the athletes get instead of the $75. And they can get food at anytime of day. Remember when Scoop got in trouble because his uncle was living with him on campus? Scoop had enough of a meal plan to feed them both. The "I'm going hungry " accusation is crud.

Let the kids go directly to the NBA. Let them go pro. Let the schools have professional teams with no scholarships. I'm not arguing that that the schools aren't generating millions. But even the idea of letting them have endorsement contracts is shaky. The endorsement value of a player comes in part from the team they are on. Why don't they prep at IMG and get an endorsement contract until they can enter the draft? Because until they join a team they have no value.

 

[AZOrange]

Impoverished athletes get PELL grants of up to $7000 a year. On top of the scholarship. And I'll take the free meal plan the athletes get instead of the $75. And they can get food at anytime of day. Remember when Scoop got in trouble because his uncle was living with him on campus? Scoop had enough of a meal plan to feed them both. The "I'm going hungry " accusation is crud. Let the kids go directly to the NBA. Let them go pro. Let the schools have professional teams with no scholarships. I'm not arguing that that the schools aren't generating millions. But even the idea of letting them have endorsement contracts is shaky. The endorsement value of a player comes in part from the team they are on. Why don't they prep at IMG and get an endorsement contract until they can enter the draft? Because until they join a team they have no value.

Ahhh Scoops uncle...the good ol days

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Impoverished athletes get PELL grants of up to $7000 a year. On top of the scholarship.

And I'll take the free meal plan the athletes get instead of the $75. And they can get food at anytime of day. Remember when Scoop got in trouble because his uncle was living with him on campus? Scoop had enough of a meal plan to feed them both. The "I'm going hungry " accusation is crud.

Let the kids go directly to the NBA. Let them go pro. Let the schools have professional teams with no scholarships. I'm not arguing that that the schools aren't generating millions. But even the idea of letting them have endorsement contracts is shaky. The endorsement value of a player comes in part from the team they are on. Why don't they prep at IMG and get an endorsement contract until they can enter the draft? Because until they join a team they have no value.

Please supply a link about poor players getting pell grants to pay for their daily expenses. I'll be happy to know I'm wrong.

 

[PoppyHart]

Please supply a link about poor players getting pell grants to pay for their daily expenses. I'll be happy to know I'm wrong.

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2014/01/27/pell-grants-not-a-substitute-for-stipend.htm

With the Pell Grant, students can actually exceed the "full cost of attendance".

 

[NYCSUGrad]

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2014/01/27/pell-grants-not-a-substitute-for-stipend.htm

With the Pell Grant, students can actually exceed the "full cost of attendance".

I'm glad the student athletes apparently are not starving because of the pell grants, but that article was nevertheless rather confusing. But thanks for posting it anyway

 

[maxxyz]

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2014/01/27/pell-grants-not-a-substitute-for-stipend.htm

With the Pell Grant, students can actually exceed the "full cost of attendance".

Please supply a link about poor players getting pell grants to pay for their daily expenses. I'll be happy to know I'm wrong.

Are you happy?

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Are you happy?

More or less, thanks.