Turn back time - December, 2008

[Rocco]

While I can't disagree with the general context of your post, there's a little fun with numbers. Grob did not take over a "6-6" program. That was the record in a single season. We had gone 3 years without a winning record. Our W/L during those 3 years was 16-20(?)

Ok that's fine. GRob took over a 16-20(?) program and turned it into a silky smooth 10-37, 3-25. Marrone took over a 10-37, 3-25 program and turned it into 17-20 (bowl win in yr 2).

That is progress, any way you spin it. It might not be up to some people's standards, but it is still progress.

 

[OrangePA]

Shortly after hearing the news about Doug Marrone being hired as head coach of your Orange and watching his press conference, if I pulled up in a DeLorean telling you I'm from the year 2012 and informed you that:

Going into Year #4, Syracuse would be predicted to finish #7 in a WVU-less Big East ahead of only Temple (and btw, Marrone is the longest-tenured coach in the conference)...that the collective fanbase does not expect more than four or five wins in 2012...that there would still be depth and recruiting issues despite much more financial investment into the program than what the previous coaching staffs received...that the football schedule will become much more challenging after 2012 due to moving into the ACC...

How would you feel? Would you feel that Marrone deserves an extension? That he is not over his head and he is the man for this job? Would you feel that it's okay if the team doesn't qualify for a bowl in 2012? Would you shrug your shoulders and say, eh, whatever?

Or would you think that there's enough evidence to suggest that Marrone should be on the hot seat going into 2012, and that anything less than six wins would prove that he does not have what it takes to succeed as head coach for Syracuse?

The program had won ten games in four years.

The infrastructure was still way behind the competition.

Recruiting was suffering.

Marrone has done a great job.

 

[Scooch]

I think I'd stop listening as soon as you said we're moving to the ACC next year... and then I'd dance.

I'D DANCE!!!

 

[orangenirvana]

So take one of those wins away. Make it 7 wins and a bowl game. Does that really change things? In year one, he equals Robinson's BEST year. In year two, he takes SU to a bowl game. Are you seriously trying to find fault in that? Year three was a step back to be sure -- not as far back as during any of the Robinson years.

People need to get on board.

I'm not offering my opinion in this thread. I'm simply asking for your opinions by looking at it a different way.

 

[orangenirvana]

How is the preseason ranking not irrelevant? It couldn't be any more irrelevant. Preseason rankings of any kind are guesses. Kinda like that commercial, "(one guy)I'm 99.9% positive... (other guy) so you don't know"...

If you don't think the program has improved, we are looking at different things.

College football is so much about people's perceptions. The perception is that Syracuse is still terrible in Marrone Year #4. That's very relevant.

Of course the program has improved. But there was really only one direction it could have gone. It was impossible for it to get worse. The question is, has the program improved enough?

 

[rrlbees]

Then by that same argument, SU is not a 5 - 7 team. SU is a 13 - 12 team. Or a 17 - 20 team. If the big picture is required in judging GRob -- or P -- then HCDM gets the same courtesy.

By any criteria I can come up with, we trended down during GRob, and are trending up now. Maybe right now we are where we were under Coach P when he was fired. Maybe the line still goes up.

I agree with that. We aren't a "year by year program and thus a 5-7 team. That is why I said his overall record for the 3 years is almost exactly what P was his last 3.

 

[rrlbees]

Te pipeline to nyc, jersey and pennsylvania schools that were once integral to Syracuse's success. That same pipeline that robinson completely ignored on his voyage of destroying over decades and decades of friendships with high schools.

Oh. Except at least 2 of those examples are factually incorrect.

 

[rrlbees]

Ok that's fine. GRob took over a 16-20(?) program and turned it into a silky smooth 10-37, 3-25. Marrone took over a 10-37, 3-25 program and turned it into 17-20 (bowl win in yr 2).

That is progress, any way you spin it. It might not be up to some people's standards, but it is still progress.

That I can agree with and I am not one of the ones that have said we are not making progress. I believe we are making slow steady progress. But there has to come a point where the expectaion is pretty consistent 8-4 seasons with the occassional 7-5 and 9-3.

 

[SU2NASA]

Ok that's fine. GRob took over a 16-20(?) program and turned it into a silky smooth 10-37, 3-25. Marrone took over a 10-37, 3-25 program and turned it into 17-20 (bowl win in yr 2).

That is progress, any way you spin it. It might not be up to some people's standards, but it is still progress.

Do you expect more progress this year? I sure do.

If we're back at 3-9, 4-8, then how do you feel about progress?

 

[Phillymoose]

I used to be on the edge of my seat at this time of year. Grob enraged me, but I didn't lose interest. DM's biggest indictment is that I barely care anymore. As a team and program, we don't have any identity and Doug seems to have intentionally tamped down all our expectations. The wins we've had (and I am grateful for them) have mostly been ugly.

Coach Mac said 'A win is a win is a win is a beautiful thing' and I'll buy that, but if the program does not transition from mediocre to contender anytime soon, I really could give a rat's ass whether we suck badly or are mediocre. Frankly, in some ways I'd rather be mad than bored.

 

[MikeSU02]

That I can agree with and I am not one of the ones that have said we are not making progress. I believe we are making slow steady progress. But there has to come a point where the expectaion is pretty consistent 8-4 seasons with the occassional 7-5 and 9-3.

This is exactly where I need us to be to be content.

This is also why I think NW game is so big. If we we go 0-2 out of the gate, seven game losing streak, coming off a last place finish in the BE, I just don't see how Doug is going to maintain the team's focus.

 

[Cuseman78]

If you would have told me that in the 3 years following the worst 4 year stretch of our program's history, that we would have already won a bowl game and that we would be about a shade under .500 during those 3 years, I would have considered that a success. i think many on this board either (a) forgot how horrendous we were during the Grob years or (b) are too impatient to deal with the program-building that's going on.

All that said, we are getting to the point where we need to see the program elevate itself to the next level. The brutal schedule that most seem concerned about is way overblown. Not any cupcakes, but we aren't exactly playing the SEC West every week either. We have an opportunity to win some games this year. And I think we will. Mark me down for another 8-5.

 

[All4SU]

I used to be on the edge of my seat at this time of year. Grob enraged me, but I didn't lose interest. DM's biggest indictment is that I barely care anymore. As a team and program, we don't have any identity and Doug seems to have intentionally tamped down all our expectations. The wins we've had (and I am grateful for them) have mostly been ugly.

Coach Mac said 'A win is a win is a win is a beautiful thing' and I'll buy that, but if the program does not transition from mediocre to contender anytime soon, I really could give a rat's ass whether we suck badly or are mediocre. Frankly, in some ways I'd rather be mad than bored.

I suspect that has more to do with the sustained mediocrity than with anything HCDM is or isn't doing. Ten years can have that effect on a person. Just the same, apathy is a dangerous thing to a program. Hopefully, all of SU's fan base doesn't feel the same way you do. But as we have all said, winning is the only cure at this point.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Oh. Except at least 2 of those examples are factually incorrect.

LOL yeah what NJ pipeline? Were still way behind in that state and Marrone didnt help things out when he first got here.

 

[Millhouse]

i can't do it right now but i bet that you could take a coach that everyone agrees is a success, pick his one down year, and do the same exercise. like say mack brown 10 or 11 years in at texas.

(not the best example because i don't think brown is great.)

now i'm not saying that Marrone is an obvious success

i'm just saying that looking at one year doesn't cut it.

i think 2013 -2015 are the years to judge him hard. he'll have all his guys in with experience in a new league with more money, etc.

 

[JeremyCuse]

If you would have told me that in the 3 years following the worst 4 year stretch of our program's history, that we would have already won a bowl game and that we would be about a shade under .500 during those 3 years, I would have considered that a success. i think many on this board either (a) forgot how horrendous we were during the Grob years or (b) are too impatient to deal with the program-building that's going on.

All that said, we are getting to the point where we need to see the program elevate itself to the next level. The brutal schedule that most seem concerned about is way overblown. Not any cupcakes, but we aren't exactly playing the SEC West every week either. We have an opportunity to win some games this year. And I think we will. Mark me down for another 8-5.

I love your optimisim and would be happier then Cali on the pay board if we won that many games but where are we getting 8 wins from? I know you think the schedule isnt that tough but were talking about the 2012 SU fball team not the 1998 or 1991 or 1994 team. For this team the schedule we have is like playing the SEC West every week, USC and Mizzou on the road are the two toughest OOC games in the entire BE save for maybe Rutgers game at Arkansas and opening up with NW is no picnic. This isnt a shot at you but this team barely beat Rhode Island last year and this year we have Stony Brook right after USC with a bunch of D1 transfers and NYC kids who want revenge for not getting an SU offer, I can allready see that dog fight coming.

Under Marrone this team is O fer against Uconn, Lville, and Pitt and has been blown out by South Florida 2 of the 3 games. Again I respect your post but where the hell are we getting 8 wins.

 

[Cuseman78]

I love your optimisim and would be happier then Cali on the pay board if we won that many games but where are we getting 8 wins from? I know you think the schedule isnt that tough but were talking about the 2012 SU fball team not the 1998 or 1991 or 1994 team. For this team the schedule we have is like playing the SEC West every week, USC and Mizzou on the road are the two toughest OOC games in the entire BE save for maybe Rutgers game at Arkansas and opening up with NW is no picnic. This isnt a shot at you but this team barely beat Rhode Island last year and this year we have Stony Brook right after USC with a bunch of D1 transfers and NYC kids who want revenge for not getting an SU offer, I can allready see that dog fight coming.

Under Marrone this team is O fer against Uconn, Lville, and Pitt and has been blown out by South Florida 2 of the 3 games. Again I respect your post but where the hell are we getting 8 wins.

7-5 and a bowl win. NW, Stony Brook, Minnesota, 4-3 in the league. We'll be a middling league team this year but good enough to be bowl bound. I think most of the negative attitude on this board stems from the fact that 7 of the last 8 years, we have had losing records. I get that its hard to mentally make the leap that we will ever get better, but I think we have the pieces in place to have a nice year (senior QB, weak conference, more experienced D).

Having a 2010 like season isn't that outlandish. I don't think I'm being this boards version of RutgersAl.

 

[JeremyCuse]

7-5 and a bowl win. NW, Stony Brook, Minnesota, 4-3 in the league. We'll be a middling league team this year but good enough to be bowl bound. I think most of the negative attitude on this board stems from the fact that 7 of the last 8 years, we have had losing records. I get that its hard to mentally make the leap that we will ever get better, but I think we have the pieces in place to have a nice year (senior QB, weak conference, more experienced D).

Having a 2010 like season isn't that outlandish. I don't think I'm being this boards version of RutgersAl.

Your certainly not RutgersAl he would have us winning the BE, beating USC and playing Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl. I can see what your saying and I agree is not impossible or even outlandish but 4-3 in conference would be a big step forward for this team especially with 4 games on the road. Also I think its more realistic we splie NW and Minn then go 2-0.

 

[kingottoiii]

Having a 2010 like season isn't that outlandish. I don't think I'm being this boards version of RutgersAl.

Have you seen our OL?

 

[Cuseman78]

Have you seen our OL?

Our OL in 2010 was a juggernaut? And assuming Pugh comes back fully healthy, I think we have a chance to be fine. I'm looking forward to seeing what Hickey, Alexander, Foy, Curtis, etc can do. This isn't a line full of Corey Chavers.

 

[Rocco]

Do you expect more progress this year? I sure do.

If we're back at 3-9, 4-8, then how do you feel about progress?

I wouldn't feel great, but I also wouldn't think the world is ending. If Marrone isn't given an extension now and with a bad year this year, the conversation becomes WHEN does DM get fired, not if. It doesn't bode well for the program, especially recruiting.

 

[kingottoiii]

Our OL in 2010 was a juggernaut? And assuming Pugh comes back fully healthy, I think we have a chance to be fine. I'm looking forward to seeing what Hickey, Alexander, Foy, Curtis, etc can do. This isn't a line full of Corey Chavers.

No it wasn't but it was still better than this year's OL. Also this line won't have DC3 around to help make it look better. We had three wins that year where we scored less than 20 points. That isn't likely to happen again. Not to mention in 2010 we had three cupcake games vs one this year. The 2010 OL was able to squeak by thanks to an easy schedule, a workhorse RB, and a good D. We do not have any of those this year.

I too am looking forward to what the young guys can do. But they are a year away.

 

[SU2NASA]

I wouldn't feel great, but I also wouldn't think the world is ending. If Marrone isn't given an extension now and with a bad year this year, the conversation becomes WHEN does DM get fired, not if. It doesn't bode well for the program, especially recruiting.

If we go 3-9, which I think is a distinct possibility, I think he's gone.

 

[Cuseman78]

No it wasn't but it was still better than this year's OL. Also this line won't have DC3 around to help make it look better. We had three wins that year where we scored less than 20 points. That isn't likely to happen again. Not to mention in 2010 we had three cupcake games vs one this year. The 2010 OL was able to squeak by thanks to an easy schedule, a workhorse RB, and a good D. We do not have any of those this year.

I too am looking forward to what the young guys can do. But they are a year away.

Your post is full of assumptions about this year's team, many of which I don't agree with.

 

[Rocco]

If we go 3-9, which I think is a distinct possibility, I think he's gone.

So give him an extension now and get rid of the potential talk next year. It can be structured towards SU's advantage.