Turning It On...

[newmexicuse]

We played most of the game as we felt we could turn it on at will. Formula has worked twice now, but it is playing with fire.

Stanford was gritty & tough. They had a great game plan for attacking the Zone & they played like they wanted it more for about 37 minutes.

We need to really show the intensity for 40 minutes & not just in bursts if we want to get to a FF.

 

[rstone7727]

I would have like for JB to have started the press soon after halftime. Kept wondering what he was waiting for. But I guess he knows what condition the guys are in and the flow of the game better than I do. Maybe he felt the players would get too tired if he started earlier..? Stanford was tough!

 

[stuckinbig11]

I would have like for JB to have started the press soon after halftime. Kept wondering what he was waiting for. But I guess he knows what condition the guys are in and the flow of the game better than I do. Maybe he felt the players would get too tired if he started earlier..? Stanford was tough!

The press either works or it gives up easy lay-ups or dunks. It is only effective when used periodically and taking the other team by surprise.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

The press either works or it gives up easy lay-ups or dunks. It is only effective when used periodically and taking the other team by surprise.

Plus we weren't in great shape with # of team fouls, so I think the last thing that JB wanted to do was to send Stanford to the foul line.

 

[44cuse]

Excellent post. And this what will potentially drive me nuts all year. With ten guys that can play, 4 guys who can play PG, and our speed and length ...we should be dictating tempo all day long. No reason we should not be running people out of the gym. Half court offense is always a weakness, but the year we have the depth and horses to avoid it.

44cuse

 

[HoustonCuse]

Plus we weren't in great shape with # of team fouls, so I think the last thing that JB wanted to do was to send Stanford to the foul line.

Yeah I really think BMK having three fouls made Jimmy reticent to employ the press. If he had one or two, there may have been a couple more possessions of press or maybe he would have gone to it a little earlier.

 

[OttoMets]

Short of the whole roster having come down with an illness, it is inconceivable that a Syracuse team with this kind of talent could be in a 25-24 game with that Stanford bunch.

 

[BlueCurtain]

Excellent post. And this what will potentially drive me nuts all year. With ten guys that can play, 4 guys who can play PG, and our speed and length ...we should be dictating tempo all day long. No reason we should not be running people out of the gym. Half court offense is always a weakness, but the year we have the depth and horses to avoid it.

If you know halfcourt offense is a weakness, a reasonable approach is to strategically minimize its importance - and you do that by dictating tempo, not letting the other team slow it down (which is what the zone concedes). You don't win 6 straight in March waiting until the last minutes of a game to let the horses out of the stable.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Short of the whole roster having come down with an illness, it is inconceivable that a Syracuse team with this kind of talent could be in a 25-24 game with that Stanford bunch.

They weren't a bunch of stiffs. They looked athletic both games to me.

 

[OttoMets]

They weren't a bunch of stiffs. They looked athletic both games to me.

They weren't a bunch of stiffs, but each of their players was worse than his counterpart on Syracuse, some by a wide margin. #2 was one of the worst starters we've played against all year.

More to my point that it's crazy that we'd be in a 25-24 game against Stanford at the half, though, let's think of Coach Dawkins's dream scenario before the game. Probably something along the lines of "I hope we're able to slow it down, limit transition opportunities, take 30 seconds off the clock each possession, and hold them to 24 points in the first half."

Stanford knows that and Syracuse knows that. What happens? Stanford's dream scenario comes to pass. Stanford executed its gameplan. Syracuse, I'd argue, didn't. We allowed Stanford to play the game it wanted and take its best shot at winning. It just added a degree of difficulty to our win.

 

[zeekay]

We should have pressed 10 mins in. If we are tied with a team that takes 35 seconds to make each shot we need to do something.

 

[OttoMets]

We should have pressed 10 mins in. If we are tied with a team that takes 35 seconds to make each shot we need to do something.

Agreed. It holds true for Butler, Vermont, Virginia Tech, or Stanford.

Every team knows that its best shot at beating Syracuse involves eating time, slowing us down, and making us earn points in the half-court. We ought not accommodate those teams' gameplans.

 

[SoBeCuse]

They weren't a bunch of stiffs, but each of their players was worse than his counterpart on Syracuse, some by a wide margin. #2 was one of the worst starters we've played against all year.

More to my point that it's crazy that we'd be in a 25-24 game against Stanford at the half, though, let's think of Coach Dawkins's dream scenario before the game. Probably something along the lines of "I hope we're able to slow it down, limit transition opportunities, take 30 seconds off the clock each possession, and hold them to 24 points in the first half."

Stanford knows that and Syracuse knows that. What happens? Stanford's dream scenario comes to pass. Stanford executed its gameplan. Syracuse, I'd argue, didn't. We allowed Stanford to play the game it wanted and take its best shot at winning. It just added a degree of difficulty to our win.

I agree with this and it is frustrating. VA Tech did the same thing the other night. We gotta get out of the gates faster.

 

[BlueCurtain]

Agreed. It holds true for Butler, Vermont, Virginia Tech, or Stanford.

Every team knows that its best shot at beating Syracuse involves eating time, slowing us down, and making us earn points in the half-court. We ought not accommodate those teams' gameplans.

Why does JB accommodate? Because he wants to win with his brand of defense, even if means letting the other team hang around. If his teams were more successful sans zone, then he would betray the essence of what made him famous.

 

[OttoMets]

Why does JB accommodate? Because he wants to win playing zone, even if means letting the other team hang around. It's painful to accept that reality.

I'm not going to join you in pretending to know his motivation, but I'll tell you that it was frustrating to spend 36 minutes seeing a very talented group of Syracuse players trying to out-Stanford Stanford. For whatever reason, Boeheim handcuffed his players these past two games.

 

[BlueCurtain]

I'm not going to join you in pretending to know his motivation, but I'll tell you that it was frustrating to spend 36 minutes seeing a very talented group of Syracuse players trying to out-Stanford Stanford. For whatever reason, Boeheim handcuffed his players these past two games.

JB is the great accommodator. Have a game plan? He will find a way to accommodate you.

There's nothing to pretend. For years he was labeled as the coach who just rolled the ball out. In 1996 he went exclusively zone because he was strapped with a talented but athletically limited roster, sans Wallace. That team caught lightning in a bottle in the NCAAs. It was a remarkable over-achievement for someone that was more associated with under-achievement. Pundits started giving JB some recognition. SU has been zone 24/7 ever since, save for a few blips here and there. Fast forward through the years. He used the zone in 1996 because it gave his team the best chance to succeed. Now he uses the zone because he feels he has a reputation to uphold.

 

[dash-30-dash]

and yet we managed to win an nc duringt that time period and had the #1 team in the country two years ago after the regular season.

 

[BlueCurtain]

and yet we managed to win an nc duringt that time period and had the #1 team in the country two years ago after the regular season.

We won the national championship because of our offense. That's the problem with the zone - our offense has to be so good it makes our defense irrelevant. JB's best teams are very balanced and efficient scoring machines, which tends to minimize the zone's flaws.

 

[OttoMets]

We won the national championship because of our offense. That's the problem with the zone - our offense has to be so good it makes our defense irrelevant. JB's best teams are very balanced and efficient scoring machines, which tends to minimize the zone's flaws.

To a point. But we got to the Final Four in 2003 with the help of our defense (zone, against Oklahoma; desperation press, against Oklahoma State).

Boeheim's very best teams are balanced offensively but more than capable defensively. Even a very good offense doesn't mask a poorly-played zone (see 2008 and 2009).

 

[EastBayCuse]

JB has never had a deep enough bench prior to this year to depart from the zone. I think we see more man press this year as the season progresses.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I would have like for JB to have started the press soon after halftime. Kept wondering what he was waiting for. But I guess he knows what condition the guys are in and the flow of the game better than I do. Maybe he felt the players would get too tired if he started earlier..? Stanford was tough!

This is why it's a little disappointing for him to give up on playing Southerland and Christmas so quickly. Those guys can help wear down opponents, instead of playing 7 against 7, we can play 9 against 7. I think it helps us defend better to play more guys, even tho the defense was obviously very good tonight.

 

[jordoo]

If you know halfcourt offense is a weakness, a reasonable approach is to strategically minimize its importance - and you do that by dictating tempo, not letting the other team slow it down (which is what the zone concedes). You don't win 6 straight in March waiting until the last minutes of a game to let the horses out of the stable.

Or you could actually force your team to win games early in the season by improving in half court offense!!

 

[jordoo]

To a point. But we got to the Final Four in 2003 with the help of our defense (zone, against Oklahoma; desperation press, against Oklahoma State).

Boeheim's very best teams are balanced offensively but more than capable defensively. Even a very good offense doesn't mask a poorly-played zone (see 2008 and 2009).

I agree and would say that the only game we won purely as a function of our offense was that Texas game. Honestly our offense struggled until that game IMO.

 

[jordoo]

There's nothing to pretend. For years he was labeled as the coach who just rolled the ball out.

hmmm so why doesn't every coach simply roll the ball out and get to the HOF?

 

[pfister1]

Also no telling how much of a distraction all this Bernie stuff is? Hard to imagine it doesn't have some negative impact.