Two crazy stories on the Post combined thread...

[Dave85]

I am really surprised nobody posted any commentary on these two stories:

NCAA to distribute millions of March Madness money for academic performance

No joke; Jim Boeheim says Syracuse basketball may play some man-to-man defense

Syracuse basketball: Should Jim Boeheim bring man-to-man defense back from the dead?

NCAA approves athletes getting paid. And JB is talking about playing M2M.

It's guess our horses are too beaten to have a kick left. I thought someone would have said something about either of these. What has happened to us????

 

[HoustonCuse]

That NCAA article has nothing at all about athletes getting paid. How did you come to that conclusion??

 

[Dave85]

That NCAA article has nothing at all about athletes getting paid. How did you come to that conclusion??

I read "reward for academic performance by athletes" as to the athlete. Oh well, I can still hope.

 

[DomeStranger]

We had a bad regular season last year something should be done to fix it.

The ACC is full of great coaches and seem to enjoy finding new ways to get open shots from the zone.

It's advantageous to good passing/shooting teams to play the zone. We definitely need a second defense and maybe JB finally realizes this.

 

[Delmar]

It's not man to man.

It's a 1-1-1-1-1 zone.

 

[Townie72]

We had a bad regular season last year something should be done to fix it.

The ACC is full of great coaches and seem to enjoy finding new ways to get open shots from the zone.

It's advantageous to good passing/shooting teams to play the zone. We definitely need a second defense and maybe JB finally realizes this.

SU was 30th out of 335 NCAA teams in Team Defense last year.

Only two ACC teams --- UVA and Clemson --- ranked ahead of us.

Only two B1G teams ranked ahead of us.

SU defense is a huge advantage, not a problem.

The numbers prove that.

 

[orangefog]

SU was 30th out of 335 NCAA teams in Team Defense last year.

Only two ACC teams --- UVA and Clemson --- ranked ahead of us.

Only two B1G teams ranked ahead of us.

SU defense is a huge advantage, not a problem.

The numbers prove that.

That defense was manned at the top by guys in the program for 4 and 5 years. Perhaps JB foresees some growing pains in the learning of the zone.

 

[DomeStranger]

SU was 30th out of 335 NCAA teams in Team Defense last year.

Only two ACC teams --- UVA and Clemson --- ranked ahead of us.

Only two B1G teams ranked ahead of us.

SU defense is a huge advantage, not a problem.

The numbers prove that.

What number proves that? Depends what you consider total defense. It appears SU was 30th in Points allowed but that is just a small piece of what I'd call TOTAL defense.

Numbers can be deceiving, just because teams played slow against us doesn't mean we had the 30th best defense they just took their time before they scored.

I think a more telling stat is FG% defense which SU was 59th. Not awful but not great. We were ranked 290th in total defensive rebounds which is damn near last. If you don't think this has anything to do with defense then your crazy.

Now I'm not a zone basher, in fact I love it. But doesn't mean you can't play a different defense in different situations or against certain teams.

 

[two3zone]

JB always preaches the zone because "that's what we play", this year we have so many new guys, probably more first year guys we've ever had coming in, especially looking at projected minute distribution. This doesn't surprise me and JB is one of the best coaches ever when it comes to adapting.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We had a bad regular season last year something should be done to fix it.

The ACC is full of great coaches and seem to enjoy finding new ways to get open shots from the zone.

It's advantageous to good passing/shooting teams to play the zone. We definitely need a second defense and maybe JB finally realizes this.

I think it's also a factor that we have so few returnees, especially at guard, who understand the slides. Our zone is going to be vulnerable early on, and so it makes sense to play some man, while people are learning the zone. And with 9 or 10 guys, now that Moyer is going to be available, it makes sense to press more this year as an offensive weapon.

We will still play a majority of zone because this team is built to run. We have a Jonny Flynn type of PG, a John Wall type of freshman 2G, two spot up shooters from 3 trailing the play, and enough size on the back line that we ought to be very good on the defensive boards.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I attribute our recent stellar NCAA performances largely to the perfection of the zone. It has been an incredible weapon in the tournament of late. And remember that JB has pointed to the fact that with limited practice time, focusing solely on one defense has been a big part of improving it to its max potential.

The scout team does play man to help the offense. Who knows, maybe that's been a factor in our offense being poor lately - they practice against garbage man because our players aren't very good at it. This year though, you could have a scout team of all scholarship players which might mean they are getting more man exposure than in thinner years.

Bottom line: I have no idea. I am excited to see the zone with the size we have this year, especially with PC in the center. Tough to picture JB getting away from what has clearly been a huge success since 2009.

 

[Townie72]

What number proves that? Depends what you consider total defense. It appears SU was 30th in Points allowed but that is just a small piece of what I'd call TOTAL defense.

Numbers can be deceiving, just because teams played slow against us doesn't mean we had the 30th best defense they just took their time before they scored.

I think a more telling stat is FG% defense which SU was 59th. Not awful but not great. We were ranked 290th in total defensive rebounds which is damn near last. If you don't think this has anything to do with defense then your crazy.

Now I'm not a zone basher, in fact I love it. But doesn't mean you can't play a different defense in different situations or against certain teams.

OK, how about a stat like how long it takes a team to get off it's first shot? I'm pretty sure SU would be at the top of the stack on that one.

Boeheim explains why he plays the zone exclusively in his book.

There's no funnier or more oft-repeated comment on here that SU switching to a zone in a game is going to discombobulate an opponent, Pure nonsense. It's the D the other team plays and sees almost exclusively for 30 games.

I'll believe it when I see it. Sounds like a dumb idea to me to give up our advantage. For what?

 

[Finwad32]

OK, how about a stat like how long it takes a team to get off it's first shot? I'm pretty sure SU would be at the top of the stack on that one.

Boeheim explains why he plays the zone exclusively in his book.

There's no funnier or more oft-repeated comment on here that SU switching to a zone in a game is going to discombobulate an opponent, Pure nonsense. It's the D the other team plays and sees almost exclusively for 30 games.

I'll believe it when I see it. Sounds like a dumb idea to me to give up our advantage. For what?

My first thought when I saw it mentioned was that because we have so many contributors who've spent so little time working his 2-3, we may be more effective in M2M. Not only that, but, again this year we'll lose a huge percentage of our production. If you've got 2/3 1 yr. guys, do you try to get them on board asap, or let them do what they've done and are currently better at?

This was my first thought, but, who knows.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

I think it's also a factor that we have so few returnees, especially at guard, who understand the slides. Our zone is going to be vulnerable early on, and so it makes sense to play some man, while people are learning the zone. And with 9 or 10 guys, now that Moyer is going to be available, it makes sense to press more this year as an offensive weapon.

We will still play a majority of zone because this team is built to run. We have a Jonny Flynn type of PG, a John Wall type of freshman 2G, two spot up shooters from 3 trailing the play, and enough size on the back line that we ought to be very good on the defensive boards.

It's simpler than that: JB anticipates this team is so loaded that M2M is a legitimate option in ADDITION to the zone and press.

More defenses = more chances to mess with the opposition.

And if I'm not mistaken, JB already tweaks the 2-3 zone at times too.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

What number proves that? Depends what you consider total defense. It appears SU was 30th in Points allowed but that is just a small piece of what I'd call TOTAL defense.

Numbers can be deceiving, just because teams played slow against us doesn't mean we had the 30th best defense they just took their time before they scored.

I think a more telling stat is FG% defense which SU was 59th. Not awful but not great. We were ranked 290th in total defensive rebounds which is damn near last. If you don't think this has anything to do with defense then your crazy.

Now I'm not a zone basher, in fact I love it. But doesn't mean you can't play a different defense in different situations or against certain teams.

I think 59th is really good. Teams shot 41% against our zone. That's excellent. Teams played slow against us because they had a hard time finding open shots. We ranked 18th in 3pt FG %. Teams shot 31% from 3 against our zone. We ranked 30th in points allowed at 65ppg. That's excellent. Teams are going to get offensive rebounds against the zone, but the good outweighs the bad. We've been to two Final Fours in the last 4 years despite not having good offensive teams. Hard to argue against the results.

 

[Dave]

It's simpler than that: JB anticipates this team is so loaded that M2M is a legitimate option in ADDITION to the zone and press.

More defenses = more chances to mess with the opposition.

And if I'm not mistaken, JB already tweaks the 2-3 zone at times too.

 

[Dave]

The 2-3 zone Syracuse plays is all about "tweaking", or adjustments. It isn't at times, it is all the time. It is best understood as a cat and mouse game, taking things away and giving other things up, and adjusting to offensive adjustments. Just saying.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

The 2-3 zone Syracuse plays is all about "tweaking", or adjustments. It isn't at times, it is all the time. It is best understood as a cat and mouse game, taking things away and giving other things up, and adjusting to offensive adjustments. Just saying.

I was thinking more overtly, as in an occasional 1-3-1 zone.

 

[SWC75]

OK, how about a stat like how long it takes a team to get off it's first shot? I'm pretty sure SU would be at the top of the stack on that one.

Boeheim explains why he plays the zone exclusively in his book.

There's no funnier or more oft-repeated comment on here that SU switching to a zone in a game is going to discombobulate an opponent, Pure nonsense. It's the D the other team plays and sees almost exclusively for 30 games.

I'll believe it when I see it. Sounds like a dumb idea to me to give up our advantage. For what?

Bottom line: since JB switched to full-time zone seven years ago, we've had two #1 ranked teams and two Final Four teams. Four different teams. And we could add to the list this year.

I'd like to see him press more and more pro-actively, but the all-zone in the halfcourt thing is working very well.

 

[Townie72]

Bottom line: since JB switched to full-time zone seven years ago, we've had two #1 ranked teams and two Final Four teams. Four different teams. And we could add to the list this year.

I'd like to see him press more and more pro-actively, but the all-zone in the halfcourt thing is working very well.

Oh, I know.

I think the oft-repeated "Play zone, Jimmy" thing comes from those who are easily frustrated. SU loses or even looks bad for a stretch in a game and they search around for a solution, any solution.

Just think about what we hear every time a team starts hitting shots from deep outside. Basing their complaints on the statistically dis-proven idea that any zone defense is more vulnerable to outside shooting --- a myth that has been reinforced by TV commentators through the ages --- they insist that must SU must respond with M2M. JB's not doing this is, the critics insist, because he is "stubborn" or "dumb".

The problem is that Boeheim has committed the team to this zone concept and its not just about what defense they run. If you have read the extensive explanation of his logic and why and it is woven into how he builds the team, how and what they practice you understand how difficult it would be to do this.

It may happen this year. I trust in JB's judgement. But I'd love to hear the logic behind it. And I'd like him to address all this stuff like "Against a zone, there are a limited number of things you can do and that's all we have to practice against. There are many more things a team can do against a M2M and defending in a M2M is much more difficult" (Rough approximation of what JB has said)

 

[TinyManInside]

This forum needs more zone vs. m2m threads.

 

[SWC75]

This forum needs more zone vs. m2m threads.

I don't care what defense they play as long I like their uniforms.

 

[HtownOrange]

Sadly, many people don't realize how many teams play different zone defenses. Zones are used because of the discipline it takes to break it down. Unless you have a very hot outside team, the zone is generally the most effective. Even then, JB has figured out ways to cool down the hot handed teams.

I used to enjoy watching Cincy's trapping zone in the 90's. Those kids were on opponents like stink on G-----town! (I try to keep my posts family friendly but sometimes you just have to use the right adjective, sorry mods)

 

[AirForceOrange]