UCLA QB Josh Rosen: Football, school 'don't go together'

[MSOrange]

UCLA QB Josh Rosen has some interesting viewpoints on academics and football

UCLA QB: Football, school 'don't go together'

 

[bcubs9497]

Excellent read.

 

[texascpa]

Yeah, I get it, but until someone puts in a farm system similar to baseball or basketball, what's he going to do? No one is forcing him to play. Sounds like he could do pretty well outside of football.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Yeah, I get it, but until someone puts in a farm system similar to baseball or basketball, what's he going to do? No one is forcing him to play. Sounds like he could do pretty well outside of football.

The problem is that no one is telling you how hard it's going to be, that juggling act of two full time jobs, when they're recruiting you.

 

[texascpa]

The problem is that no one is telling you how hard it's going to be, that juggling act of two full time jobs, when they're recruiting you.

I wonder if I should have had the same complaint working 40 hours a week at a restaurant (at minimum wage) and taking a full slate of courses, sometimes more as I graduated in 4 years with a Bachelor's and Associate's degree.

 

[Scooch]

I wonder if I should have had the same complaint working 40 hours a week at a restaurant (at minimum wage) and taking a full slate of courses, sometimes more as I graduated in 4 years with a Bachelor's and Associate's degree.

These discussions never go well when people bring their anecdotal experiences into them. I mean this sincerely when I say: good for you. That's not the point though.

He's asking if the goal of college athletics should be to find the proper balance between education and on-field performance, or to merely keep players eligible in service of the latter. I think what Rosen said was appropriate and reasonable.

 

[UnknownOrange]

This would be a good argument ... if more than like 2% of NCAA players made the NFL.

By the way I am pro - college athletes making money. It's also all very simple.

 

[texascpa]

These discussions never go well when people bring their anecdotal experiences into them. I mean this sincerely when I say: good for you. That's not the point though.

He's asking if the goal of college athletics should be to find the proper balance between education and on-field performance, or to merely keep players eligible in service of the latter. I think what Rosen said was appropriate and reasonable.

I see what you're saying. And I agree if that's the point. However, I think some of it is also "why aren't we being paid?"

 

[Oráiste]

go to a 6-for-4 model

• allow athletes to take reduced course loads both in and out of season
  
• any athlete who completes 4 years of eligibility gets 2 more years tuition free in order to complete degree (or apply to grad school if possible)

 

[Cheriehoop]

He could always quit - pay trainers,pay for gyms etc to keep in shape, play semi-pro football and then tryout when he's 3 years out of high school. It's been done. With no other market for his football skills,he's getting training, conditioning, coaching, film for pros to evaluate under game conditions and PR that he'd otherwise have to pay for including a college education (if he takes full advantage of the opportunity). Just wondering, is it a college's fault there is no other high paying market for his talents out of high school? Both the NFL and Canadian league both have identical draft eligibility requirements. If money was to be made by funding other post high school football options, I bet there would be multiple options he could chose from.

If the school workload is the issue and not just wanting to get paid to play, then protesting the NCAA annual course credit requirements and the time allowed to complete a degree should be his focus. ( I think it should be the issue).

Anyone (yes, anyone) can try out for the NFL

 

[cuse10]

He's correct. Julian Whigham added his two cents for of the people who cry "but but but, they're getting a free education!"

By Brent Axe

baxe@syracuse.com,

syracuse.com

Syracuse, N.Y. --UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen is grabbing headlines for an honest conversation with Bleacher Report on the demands a Division I football player has on their time.

"Look, football and school don't go together," Rosen said. "They just don't. Trying to do both is like trying to do two full-time jobs. There are guys who have no business being in school, but they're here because this is the path to the NFL. There's no other way. Then there's the other side that says raise the SAT eligibility requirements. OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have. You lose athletes and then the product on the field suffers.

"It's not that they shouldn't be in school. Human beings don't belong in school with our schedules. No one in their right mind should have a football player's schedule, and go to school. It's not that some players shouldn't be in school; it's just that universities should help them more--instead of just finding ways to keep them eligible."

Ex-Syracuse cornerback Julian Whigham, who played at Syracuse from 2012-15 and is now pursuing a masters degree at SU, told a similar tale during an appearance on ESPN Radio Syracuse on Monday.

Whigham wanted to attend the S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications at Syracuse but learned quickly that plan would be derailed by the time demands football called for.

"I had always had an interest in media," Whigham said. "When I was getting recruited and took my visit here, I was touring Newhouse. When I got here, they (SU football coaching staff) said we think you're going to end up playing your freshman year, so you are going to do Arts and Sciences. You're not going to have time if you do Newhouse. I was like are you serious? It was hard."

Whigham also mentioned during the ESPN interview that he looked into political science and attending law school but ultimately wanted to pursue a career in media.

"I knew I had a passion for writing and knew I had an interest in media," Whigham said, who now contributes football analysis fornunesmagician.com and cusenation.com, two websites that focus on Syracuse University sports content.

Whigham got to pursue the major he preferred at Syracuse, albeit after he finished playing football.

Whigham's case may not represent the majority. There are plenty of success stories of students, at Syracuse University and elsewhere, who used the benefit of an athletic scholarship to earn a degree in a preferred field.

Rosen's case is interesting. He is one of the top college quarterbacks in the country. He may be a first-round choice in the 2018 NFL Draft. His future looks linked to professional footbal.

But his mind is already thinking beyond football.

Rosen told CBS Sports during an interview last year that his dream one day is to be head of a venture capital company in New York City.

Even if football isn't in his future, Rosen comes from a background that provides advantages. His father, Charles Rosen is a noted orthopedic surgeon. His mother, Liz Lippincott, is the great-great-granddaughter of Joseph Wharton, who founded the Wharton School at Penn.

"I have connections that will do me well in life," Rosen stold CBS. "I will be OK without football. I want to fight for the people who won't be OK. They're the ones who are going to be screwed in life because they're the ones who are living in [a] team room because they can't make a security deposit."

"I'm going to actively fight for players' rights,"Rosen said. "I'm always going to keep a consistent track record of what I believe in. But I don't have the clout or the means. I have the voice. I want to win a national championship, and I want to incite change."

In light of Rosen's comments, echoed by Whigham, one can't help but wonder how many "student-athletes" didn't get to pursue the major of their choice due to the time demands the "athlete" part commands.

How can you benefit from the education when you're pushed to majors to remain eligible? How can you benefit when you barely have time to study? Richard Sherman spoke on this not too long ago:

"No, I don't think college athletes are given enough time to really take advantage of the free education that they're given, and it's frustrating because a lot of people get upset with student-athletes and say they're not focused on school and they're not taking advantage of the opportunity they're given. I would love for a regular student to have a student-athlete's schedule during the season for just one quarter or one semester and show me how you balance that. Show me how you would schedule your classes when you can't schedule classes from 2-to-6 o'clock on any given day. Show me how you're going to get all your work done when after you get out at 7:30 or so, you've got a test the next day, you're dead tired from practice and you still have to study just as hard as everybody else every day and get all the same work done. Most of these kids are done with school, done with class by 3 o'clock, you've got the rest of the day to do as you please. You may spend a few hours studying, then you may spend a few hours at the library checking out books and doing casual reading, and then you may go hang out with friends and have a coffee. When you're a student-athlete, you don't have that kind of time. You wake up in the morning, you have weights at this time. Then after weights you go to class and after class, you go maybe try to grab you a quick bite to eat. Then after you get your quick bite to eat, you go straight to meetings and after meetings, you've got practice and after practice, you've got to try to get all the work done you had throughout the day you've got from your lectures and from your focus groups.

And those aren't the things that people focus on when talking about student-athletes. They are upset when a student-athlete says they need a little cash. Well, I can tell you from experience, I had negative-40 bucks in my account. Usually my account was in the negative more time than it was in the positive. You've got to make decisions on whether you get gas for your car or whether you get a meal for the day. You've got one of the two choices.

People think, ‘Oh, you're on scholarship.' They pay for your room and board, they pay for your education, but to their knowledge, you're there to play football. You're not on scholarship for school and it sounds crazy when a student-athlete says that, but that's those are the things coaches tell them every day: ‘You're not on scholarship for school.'

Luckily, I was blessed to go to Stanford and a school that was primarily focused on academics, so it was a blessing. It was a little bit better. As Jim Harbaugh would attest, we were also there for football. But there were still guys like Andrew (Luck) who majored in engineering, an incredibly tough road to take when you're in football, because a lot of the classes conflict with your time as a football player. You have an engineering class from 2 to 3:30, there's no way you can do both. You can't go to meetings and take your engineering class from 2 to 3:30, so what do you do? What do you do? Do you switch your major or do you tell your coach, ‘Hey, I've got an engineering class from 2 to 3:30 and I have to go to that.' That's a conflict of interest. That's what people don't realize. But it's not something that hurts the bottom line in a lot of people's lives, so I don't think it'll be something that will be addressed.

 

[All4SU]

Agree that "top level" football and college education don't go together. But I find it comical when people mock the NCAA while remaining unwilling to change the paradigm. Instead of pushing for profit sharing for players, or more "help" for players, we should be pushing for pro leagues to take on the role of player development, and pushing our education system back to amateur athletics as a means to an education.

 

[Cheriehoop]

If colleges are going to fund athletics then the NCAA and colleges should assure that these student-athletes get the time to be a true student (adding more games is crazy) , allow them to enroll in the majors they want( not only the ones they think will assure their eligibility and give them more time for football) with time granted to allow them to complete their degrees ( even after their eligibility passes). That this isn't their biggest issue is worrisome.

 

[Bambrewer]

What if a college created a degree in football science? You could go get a degree in learning football for a future coach. All football all the time

 

[Scooch]

What if a college created a degree in football science? You could go get a degree in learning football for a future coach. All football all the time

One of the theories I've put forth on this board, generally to wide derision, is exactly that. Let a kid major in football. Give him 20+ credits a year for that. Then supplement it with a few basic courses from a pool of relevant electives (sports business, public communications, etc).

These kids come to P5 schools to play football and hoops. Let them major in that. My wife went to SU to major in music education. She learned to play instruments and studied music theory. She didn't participate in the wind ensemble as a "student musician" and then get forced to practice 30 hours a week while being told she had to major in Philosophy.

If someone who plays wants to dual major in biochemical engineering and Russian studies instead while playing football then more power to them.

 

[texascpa]

What if a college created a degree in football science? You could go get a degree in learning football for a future coach. All football all the time

I have been thinking of this very same thing. We have degrees for all kinds of professions, but not sport specific professions. Why?

 

[Bambrewer]

One of the theories I've put forth on this board, generally to wide derision, is exactly that. Let a kid major in football. Give him 20+ credits a year for that. Then supplement it with a few basic courses from a pool of relevant electives (sports business, public communications, etc).

These kids come to P5 schools to play football and hoops. Let them major in that. My wife went to SU to major in music education. She learned to play instruments and studied music theory. She didn't participate in the wind ensemble as a "student musician" and then get forced to practice 30 hours a week while being told she had to major in Philosophy.

If someone who plays wants to dual major in biochemical engineering and Russian studies instead while playing football then more power to them.

Or better yet create a school that only does sports degrees. Kinda like a prime acedemy only were they actually learn something

 

[CarolinaCuse]

One of the theories I've put forth on this board, generally to wide derision, is exactly that. Let a kid major in football. Give him 20+ credits a year for that. Then supplement it with a few basic courses from a pool of relevant electives (sports business, public communications, etc).

These kids come to P5 schools to play football and hoops. Let them major in that. My wife went to SU to major in music education. She learned to play instruments and studied music theory. She didn't participate in the wind ensemble as a "student musician" and then get forced to practice 30 hours a week while being told she had to major in Philosophy.

If someone who plays wants to dual major in biochemical engineering and Russian studies instead while playing football then more power to them.

You're starting to see more and more competency-based degrees (aka, skill-based). It's giving credence to the fact that employers want people who are broadly educated. IMO, a major in a professional sport would be great for many of the elite student athletes. I agree with Bam and Scooch - give them relevant electives. It would require that the higher ed accrediting bodies to redefine a few things though...

 

[sufandu]

What if a college created a degree in football science? You could go get a degree in learning football for a future coach. All football all the time

There are schools that have coaching minors with classes in specific sports. I would think it would be difficult to legitimately develop a curriculum around coaching one sport. Maybe you could justify a minor.

 

[Briancuse]

Or better yet create a school that only does sports degrees. Kinda like a prime acedemy only were they actually learn something

I know Ohio St had that when Tressel was there.

 

[PhatOrange]

Two full time jobs? doubtful. I don't know what a D1 Football player's football schedule looks like and are they taking 12 credits a semester or 15? That's what 3 (50 minute) classes on m, w, fr and 2 (75 minute) classes on t, thu? Adding in football practice, weight training and film room? How much total time is it exactly?

Need to know how both actually fill the day to take a side but it seems to me the biggest argument is not a enough 'social' time. I wonder how Med students manage? How do all the other student athletes manage?

 

[cuse10]

Two full time jobs? doubtful. I don't know what a D1 Football player's football schedule looks like and are they taking 12 credits a semester or 15? That's what 3 (50 minute) classes on m, w, fr and 2 (75 minute) classes on t, thu? Adding in football practice, weight training and film room? How much total time is it exactly?

Need to know how both actually fill the day to take a side but it seems to me the biggest argument is not a enough 'social' time. I wonder how Med students manage? How do all the other student athletes manage?

You're up from 5 AM until whenever you fall asleep that day. I lived on South Campus and would see the players practicing outside before the sun had fully risen.

Football and basketball players were regularly in classes that ended at 8-9 PM (CFS 388 being one of them) because their practice schedule didn't allow them to take mid day courses at the time. Track and other non-revenue courses don't have the practice workload that the revenue generating sports have especially when their seasons are over.

 

[cuse10]

I meant non-revenue sports not courses. This board needs an edit button.

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

I meant non-revenue sports not courses. This board needs an edit button.

FYI, there is an "Edit" button.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

go to a 6-for-4 model

• allow athletes to take reduced course loads both in and out of season
  
• any athlete who completes 4 years of eligibility gets 2 more years tuition free in order to complete degree (or apply to grad school if possible)

So increase player costs by 50%? Most ADs lose money as it is.