UNC. Bloomberg Businessweek.

[itsbotime]

Good stuff. Remember a couple years ago when it came out that you had fraudulent courses? A lot of these same posts were made. Now your chancellor admits guilt.

Any idea why records were asked for and UNC only supplied records for certain years? What is there to hide the other years? Now you're being sued.

Way to cherry pick. We've had 8 separate, independent investigations, and none have turned up the smoking gun that BW is looking for. Willingham is a proven liar, the only problem is that BusinessWeek feels like it is fine to ignore the facts in order to pursue their agenda. Shades of Duke LAX and Syracuse child abuse scandal all over again. You really should read the links posted in this thread. Better to be educated than to come across as part of the tin foil hat crowd.

Re: your last question, two reasons. FERPA, mostly. And secondly, Willingham's research has been completely discredited by now. The burden of proof is on Willingham to restore her credibility, not on the university to respond to her lies. When Willingham herself refuses to stand by her own data anymore, you know there is a problem.

Keep in mind that if Willingham had her way, Syracuse athletics would cease to exist. College athletics as a whole would cease to exist. Her agenda is clear, and she isn't going to let silly things like facts get in the way of it.

 

[rrlbees]

Way to cherry pick. We've had 8 separate, independent investigations, and none have turned up the smoking gun that BW is looking for. Willingham is a proven liar, the only problem is that BusinessWeek feels like it is fine to ignore the facts in order to pursue their agenda. Shades of Duke LAX and Syracuse child abuse scandal all over again. You really should read the links posted in this thread. Better to be educated than to come across as part of the tin foil hat crowd.

Re: your last question, two reasons. FERPA, mostly. And secondly, Willingham's research has been completely discredited by now. The burden of proof is on Willingham to restore her credibility, not on the university to respond to her lies. When Willingham herself refuses to stand by her own data anymore, you know there is a problem.

Keep in mind that if Willingham had her way, Syracuse athletics would cease to exist. College athletics as a whole would cease to exist. Her agenda is clear, and she isn't going to let silly things like facts get in the way of it.

Cherry pick? It's a scandal. 200-300 bogus no show classes. And you Chancellor has finally admitted UNC is culpable. How can they not be? UNC had to know. We're not talking a couple classes, it's hundreds. So hang the Dean out to dry. Of course he DA trying to hang everything in a single person is a UNC booster. How convenient. There is no doubt it goes higher than a single Dean and has been the culture since the 90's.

It was a method of keeping high risk and failing students eligible. Julius Peppers transcript shows him getting D's and 's in regular courses but took enough no show classes to stay eligible.

Willingham's work was spot on because it pinpoints those high risk athletes and why they struggled in regular courses. Poo poo her credibility, but other academics with no ties to UNC say you can use the SATA and SATs to identify ranges of reading ability and the ability to succeed. Funny how her work supports the reasons for all those bogus courses. Since the 90's....

And way to take the party line. FERPA. Why does FERPA apply only to certain years but not others? I think you know the answer.

 

[itsbotime]

Cherry pick? It's a scandal. 200-300 bogus no show classes. And you Chancellor has finally admitted UNC is culpable. How can they not be? UNC had to know. We're not talking a couple classes, it's hundreds. So hang the Dean out to dry. Of course he DA trying to hang everything in a single person is a UNC booster. How convenient. There is no doubt it goes higher than a single Dean and has been the culture since the 90's.

It was a method of keeping high risk and failing students eligible. Julius Peppers transcript shows him getting D's and 's in regular courses but took enough no show classes to stay eligible.

Willingham's work was spot on because it pinpoints those high risk athletes and why they struggled in regular courses. Poo poo her credibility, but other academics with no ties to UNC say you can use the SATA and SATs to identify ranges of reading ability and the ability to succeed. Funny how her work supports the reasons for all those bogus courses. Since the 90's...

And way to take the party line. FERPA. Why does FERPA apply only to certain years but not others? I think you know the answer.

Eight separate investigations, including one done by the NCAA, have looked into the "no-show" (i.e. independent study classes, "no-show" is just a way of attempting to make them look bad, since they do exist at just about every college) courses. Our accrediting body (SACS, a pretty big deal) looked into the courses. An independent academic auditing firm and a former governor with no ties to the university spent tens of thousands of man hours pouring over hundreds of thousands of documents. All of these investigations came to the same conclusion: not one NCAA violation was found.

The fact that you think Willingham's work is "spot on", when Willingham herself has even stated that her findings may be flawed, says it all. You already have your mind made up. The fact that Willingham's work was found to be off by a factor of ten (not a small margin), that an independent consultant wrote at length that her findings were bogus, that her permission to do research was pulled not because of what she found but because she was so incompetent at even pretending to research that she embarrassed herself and her employer is not insignificant.

But, by all means, feel free to believe that there is a special pool of dumb athletes that only UNC goes after. No other school recruits these people. It doesn't matter that the athletes going to UNC have some of the highest SAT scores and HS GPAs of any D1 revenue athletes around. No, that is all just part of the conspiracy. The NCAA cannot and will not touch UNC over this because a) all of these athletes passed the NCAA clearinghouse and met established NCAA minimums and b) if the NCAA took action against UNC, it would have to take action against every single D1 school that has an athletics program. All these big-time sports schools go after the same recruits.

You'd think after the media wrongfully crucified Syracuse for enabling child abuse (turns out that was as bogus as this BW report is), you'd know about this stuff by now. Remember when 77 Duke professors called out their lacrosse team for raping a stripper? Those lax kids are very, very rich now, because the media couldn't help itself and wanted to manufacture a fake scandal. Just look at the facts and you will see what is going on here. Read the links above. I know they don't fit into your anti-college athletics narrative, but they will enlighten you.

 

[itsbotime]

An email sent by an alumni to the BW hack does a good job at laying out the problems with the article:

Peter,

That was the most one-sided, thin-on-facts article I have ever read and was unworthy of a news organization like Bloomberg.

The vast majority of the article was predicated on a “whistleblower” whose work is undeniably in question and whose motivations appear centered on book sales or fame.

As a Carolina graduate (and former athlete), I am astounded by the lack of journalistic integrity that Barrett has shown.

· He ignored the detailed, fact-driven analysis this week by one UNC learning specialist but embraced the rantings of another learning specialist whose facts are flawed at best and willfully misleading at worst?

· He embraced one sentence of Bradley Bethel’s blog that supports Willingham’s narrative but ignores the 98% that completely discredits most of Willingham’s claims?

· He asserts there was a “paper class system” for eligibility, despite, other than N’yangoro, there not being one single shred of evidence of his claim based on multiple reviews, including nearly 2 decades of analysis by a former Governor and a national audit firm.

· He supports a learning specialist making national headlines with devastating claims (that are possibly erroneous) but calls Jim Dean’s refutation and data-driven response out of line?

· He calls out Dean for “grossly distorting Willingham’s statements” but continues to use the false narrative about 500 grade changes when any cursory review of the Martin Report would show that only 18 grade changes over 15 years of analysis could have remotely affected eligibility.

· He subtly attempts to discredit the Martin Report, despite it being done by a respected Governor and a nationally respected audit firm. Are we to now assume they are in on the cover up? (Along with 3 Chancellors, multiple Provosts, Dean Smith, Roy Williams, 26 other athletic coaches, the Athletic Department, Office of Admissions and our faculty?)

· He suggests institutional corruption in admissions whereby we are enrolling unqualified athletes. Yet, every single one of our athletes has met the standards of the NCAA in both the SAT and GPA requirements. If we cannot rely on the SAT and GPA’s, what criteria does he suggest we use?

I could go on and on with the biased narrative that Barrett is perpetuating. But what good would it do? I know we can’t get a fair representation of the facts from Dan Kane, but now a respected organization like Bloomberg has little interest in the facts?

I would never expect you to stifle a story, no matter how deleterious to UNC. But I think a pretty basic expectation is that the story will be grounded in facts and that a whistleblower’s whistle will actually be real.

The University of North Carolina did wrong. We had a horrendous agent problem in football. Our controls were weak in tutoring. We had a rogue professor who had yet-to-be-determined motivations for easy classes. There are plenty of areas to criticize my university, our university, but this cover story was a gutless attempt at journalism and your organization should be embarrassed.

Sincerely,

(Name removed)

 

[rrlbees]

Eight separate investigations, including one done by the NCAA, have looked into the "no-show" (i.e. independent study classes, "no-show" is just a way of attempting to make them look bad, since they do exist at just about every college) courses. Our accrediting body (SACS, a pretty big deal) looked into the courses. An independent academic auditing firm and a former governor with no ties to the university spent tens of thousands of man hours pouring over hundreds of thousands of documents. All of these investigations came to the same conclusion: not one NCAA violation was found.

The fact that you think Willingham's work is "spot on", when Willingham herself has even stated that her findings may be flawed, says it all. You already have your mind made up. The fact that Willingham's work was found to be off by a factor of ten (not a small margin), that an independent consultant wrote at length that her findings were bogus, that her permission to do research was pulled not because of what she found but because she was so incompetent at even pretending to research that she embarrassed herself and her employer is not insignificant.

But, by all means, feel free to believe that there is a special pool of dumb athletes that only UNC goes after. No other school recruits these people. It doesn't matter that the athletes going to UNC have some of the highest SAT scores and HS GPAs of any D1 revenue athletes around. No, that is all just part of the conspiracy. The NCAA cannot and will not touch UNC over this because a) all of these athletes passed the NCAA clearinghouse and met established NCAA minimums and b) if the NCAA took action against UNC, it would have to take action against every single D1 school that has an athletics program. All these big-time sports schools go after the same recruits.

You'd think after the media wrongfully crucified Syracuse for enabling child abuse (turns out that was as bogus as this BW report is), you'd know about this stuff by now. Remember when 77 Duke professors called out their lacrosse team for raping a stripper? Those lax kids are very, very rich now, because the media couldn't help itself and wanted to manufacture a fake scandal. Just look at the facts and you will see what is going on here. Read the links above. I know they don't fit into your anti-college athletics narrative, but they will enlighten you.

Bunch of spin.

Investigations led by UNC found more than 200 no-show classes since the mid-1990s, with athletes accounting for nearly half of the enrollments.

Your chancellor admitted it. Former athletes have admitted it. You can't.

 

[itsbotime]

Bunch of spin.

Investigations led by UNC found more than 200 no-show classes since the mid-1990s, with athletes accounting for nearly half of the enrollments.

Your chancellor admitted it. Former athletes have admitted it. You can't.

Yes, 9 separate investigations that prove you wrong are nothing more than a bunch of spin. Obviously you know more than the investigators who spent thousands of hours, and who do this stuff for a living. Since you seem to have new information that no one else knows about, I suggest you contact the NCAA and make them aware of what you have discovered. After that, you should contact the district attorney's office in Durham, NC and ask them why they let those rapists on the lacrosse team walk free. Who needs facts and analysis when you have an axe to grind?

 

[rrlbees]

Yes, 9 separate investigations that prove you wrong are nothing more than a bunch of spin. Obviously you know more than the investigators who spent thousands of hours, and who do this stuff for a living. Since you seem to have new information that no one else knows about, I suggest you contact the NCAA and make them aware of what you have discovered. After that, you should contact the district attorney's office in Durham, NC and ask them why they let those rapists on the lacrosse team walk free. Who needs facts and analysis when you have an axe to grind?

Who cares about self serving investigations. Read some of your own UNC reports and the admissions of your chancellor. I guess she is lying? Guess that's why they are opening another investigation into everything? I guess that's why they have hired another team if lawyers? The NCAA isn't going to nail you because they are named in the lawsuit by former players who didn't get an education nor any money. Why is the UNC grad DA charging the Dean? If he's guilty, so is UNC. Why are former players saying they were all no show classes? Is everyone lying? No.

 

[Dave85]

I think players should get a fixed rate stipend for each player on the team. Colleges bring in millions of dollars at these kids expense. I think they should be compensated enough so they do not have to have any financial hardships while attending school. There are a lot of additional costs attending college that are not covered by the scholarship.

 

[itsbotime]

Who cares about self serving investigations. Read some of your own UNC reports and the admissions of your chancellor. I guess she is lying? Guess that's why they are opening another investigation into everything? I guess that's why they have hired another team if lawyers? The NCAA isn't going to nail you because they are named in the lawsuit by former players who didn't get an education nor any money. Why is the UNC grad DA charging the Dean? If he's guilty, so is UNC. Why are former players saying they were all no show classes? Is everyone lying? No.

Whoa now, you are entering left-field territory. UNC's chancellor admitted that UNC had problems in the past. Duh. Everyone with a pulse knows that. Big stretch to go from, "We've made some mistakes in our past that we are not proud of" to what you are insinuating. Willingham's research has been debunked so much that Willingham herself doesn't even stand by it anymore. Read the links above. The truth will set you free.

What dean is being charged? What players are saying they were all no-show classes? I went to class with a lot of athletes. They were there every day. People from the athletic department came to our class every day with a check sheet to make sure that the players were attending class. If they didn't, they got disciplined. Heard this from more than one basketball/football player. I guess I was just imagining this. Clearly these classes were all fake and I never left my dorm room.

I suggest you familiarize yourself with SACS. There is nothing "self-serving" about having your accrediting organization come by for an audit. That usually is bad news. In this case it wasn't, and that's not because SACS is part of a big conspiracy. Come on, now.

 

[Moontan]

and stay in?

Staying in is easy if your classes don't actually exist.

 

[rrlbees]

Whoa now, you are entering left-field territory. UNC's chancellor admitted that UNC had problems in the past. Duh. Everyone with a pulse knows that. Big stretch to go from, "We've made some mistakes in our past that we are not proud of" to what you are insinuating. Willingham's research has been debunked so much that Willingham herself doesn't even stand by it anymore. Read the links above. The truth will set you free.

What dean is being charged? What players are saying they were all no-show classes? I went to class with a lot of athletes. They were there every day. People from the athletic department came to our class every day with a check sheet to make sure that the players were attending class. If they didn't, they got disciplined. Heard this from more than one basketball/football player. I guess I was just imagining this. Clearly these classes were all fake and I never left my dorm room.

I suggest you familiarize yourself with SACS. There is nothing "self-serving" about having your accrediting organization come by for an audit. That usually is bad news. In this case it wasn't, and that's not because SACS is part of a big conspiracy. Come on, now.

When I get the chance, I'll link articles for you which will set you straight. Quotes from your Chancellor, quotes from former players. Quotes from others in the academic world. Quotes from non athletes enrolled in the same course. Course evaluations. You're just spinning BS. 16 years of fraud.

 

[itsbotime]

When I get the chance, I'll link articles for you which will set you straight. Quotes from your Chancellor, quotes from former players. Quotes from others in the academic world. Quotes from non athletes enrolled in the same course. Course evaluations. You're just spinning BS. 16 years of fraud.

Looking forward to seeing it. You seem to ignore all of the links that myself and the other UNC fan have posted on this board, but out of respect to you I will actually look at the links you post and not ignore them like you have been.