UVa > SU, but for how long?

[SU94]

They obviously beat the snot out of us (again). We stunk. But this was primarily "on" UVa. Let's call it 80-20 (UVa credit, SU playing poorly).

Why is UVa good? Let me count the ways ...

Parrentes. Fantastic. Steady. Same mode, but better than Tyler Ennis (who I loved, but always thought was a tad overrated). Better/deeper shooter, more physicality (never know what Ennis will grow into, but ...), better athlete. And better defender. More spring in his step.

Many of Bennett's athletes share a common thread. They are not only imposing physically (team is quite developed, like Pitt was during their 3-4 year window of excellence), but they are all "quick jumpers." Up and down before guys like Roberson (even Christmas) reload and go up again. We've had guys like this. DC and Wallace, Melo, Otis Hill would tip the ball to themselves because of this ability to jump 2-3 times while the opposition jumps once. Gill does this. Brogdon and Atkins too. Justin Anderson will again once he returns.

Almost all of UVa's skill players (pg, sg, sf, pf) have a ++ handle (for their positions), don't panic with the ball and are above average shooters AND passers. I am not trying to dump on our guys (who I love unconditionally), but we don't have even one of these guys right now. Roberson cannot shoot, Cooney is a bland passer, Silent G is not a real shot maker, BJ offers very little off the dribble.

I've said all of this and not even mentioned Bennett's defense, which is obviously stellar. And it is sour grapes to say that they clutch, hold and impede like Louisville and Pitt do. I watched tonight and they are just always in position. And they dont seem to even sweat while doing so.

UVa can give Kentucky a good run for the money. With a totally healthy Justin Anderson, I'd say they win 5 of 10 games head-to-head against UK. They are that good. Even without Anderson, they win 3.5 times IMHO.

All of this said, I am confident we will flip the script on them in the next 3-4 seasons (next season will be tough). They have an amazing batch of kids and Bennett is a top 10 coach (likely higher), but he's "hit" (as advertised of better) on a remarkable percentage of his recent recruits. It simply cannot always be like this.

 

[orangehomer]

it's always awesome to make sweeping conclusions based on limited data sets

 

[Brooky03]

Virginia's had two really good seasons. We've had a slightly above average season and a really bad season. Seems about right that they'd beat us.

Their coach is the real deal but he's going to struggle with recruiting unless they win a Title soon (this season pretty much). Who knows. I don't think they'll stay at this level past next season, but I've been wrong before.

 

[albanycuse]

3-4 years ? comon man. If we actually had all our injured players like DC and CM, we would of probably won this game.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Virginia's had two really good seasons. We've had a slightly above average season and a really bad season. Seems about right that they'd beat us.

Their coach is the real deal but he's going to struggle with recruiting unless they win a Title soon (this season pretty much). Who knows. I don't think they'll stay at this level past next season, but I've been wrong before.

Tony Bennett appears to have a specific "system". He plugs in players who seem like interchangeable parts. They are fundamentally sound and a case of the sum greater than its' parts. Not many teams could lose a major player like Justin Anderson, adjust quickly and continue to roll along. All his kids can make open shots and are patient in finding those openings. Definitely not a star system so stars aren't needed to make it work. They win by being efficient using a system to highlight their advantages (including discipline and patience). In a quirky way they remind me of Beilein old teams and Tony Bennett's dad, Dick's, teams at Wisconsin (and Wisconsin-Green Bay) - maybe even a much more athletic ACC version of Pete Carill's old Princeton teams.

 

[two3zone]

3-4 years ? comon man. If we actually had all our injured players like DC and CM, we would of probably won this game.

McCullough and Coleman wouldn't have closed this big of a gap. Considering Coleman showed very little so far in his time here I doubt he would've been a difference maker. McCullough is a big loss and even with him I doubt we win this game.

Losing Coleman sucks and I get it, but he isn't this awesome all American we've been missing like he's been anointed.

 

[albanycuse]

McCullough and Coleman wouldn't have closed this big of a gap. Considering Coleman showed very little so far in his time here I doubt he would've been a difference maker. McCullough is a big loss and even with him I doubt we win this game. Losing Coleman sucks and I get it, but he isn't this awesome all American we've been missing like he's been anointed.

CM would of grabbed enough boards to make a difference and gave us an extra body out there. Thats one big key we were missing. We are down bodies and people think we suck because of that, we are not that good because we are a depleted bball team and nothing else.

 

[two3zone]

CM would of grabbed enough boards to make a difference and gave us an extra body out there. Thats one big key we were missing. We are down bodies and people think we suck because of that, we are not that good because we are a depleted bball team and nothing else.

We weren't depleted 6 minutes before the end of the first half and first 10 of the second half.

Even if we got the good CM of this year we lose. The bad CM of this year we saw still doesn't do well.

 

[albanycuse]

We weren't depleted 6 minutes before the end of the first half and first 10 of the second half. Even if we got the good CM of this year we lose. The bad CM of this year we saw still doesn't do well.

Weve been depleted all year. And it hit rock bottom when CM went down. We have no back up C, no bench scoring, and a pg who isnt ready yet. I dont know what games you are watching.

 

[Brooky03]

He appears to have a "system". He plugs in players who seem like interchangeable parts. Not many teams could lose a major player like Justin Anderson, adjust quickly and continue to roll along. All his kids can make open shots and are patient in finding those openings. T

If Virginia doesn't lose Bennett to the NBA, I think they're set up for success. I just don't know how much of this 'elite' success is the result of the system or happening to land the exact mix of players necessary to make the system work. The school has very little, if any, prestige associated with it which makes it a very delicate situation. One bad recruiting class and their defensive strategy involving lightning fast decisions and extreme help defense could fall apart. If they are forced to put even one guy out there who can't gel with the other 4, the entire defense breaks down, and there's no hiding the weak link.

The offense is just a product of the defense, too, IMO. You can afford to play patient offense like they do when you know your defense will get you enough stops in the lessened number of possessions to make it effective. If the defense isn't there though, the offense has to speed up. When the offense speeds up, you have to take more contested shots. You need better players in order to convert those contested shots, which UVA might not be able to land at this point. I agree Bennett has assembled a team of players who flat out do no miss open looks. But does he have players that can go get him a bucket in crunch time no matter what they're facing?

 

[SoBeCuse]

I think it is a fair OP and a pretty accurate assessment. Granted our depth is shot and we had some key losses and injuries. Still, I would bet that if you took all the guys who played in this game from both teams; Syracuse still had higher rated recruits. Big time difference in skill level/fundamentals between the two teams of mostly 'role players' and of course Anderson was out.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

3-4 years ? comon man. If we actually had all our injured players like DC and CM, we would of probably won this game.

Ill have some of what you are smoking. They gave us a 13 minute scoring head start and still crushed us. They would have beaten us with those two as well as with Grant and TE.

They are really good. Im not sure why people want to run that team down.

 

[albanycuse]

Ill have some of what you are smoking. They gave us a 13 minute scoring head start and still crushed us. They would have beaten us with those two as well as with Grant and TE. They are really good. Im not sure why people want to run that team down.

Who said they werent good. With Grant ,TE and CM , im betting we win 7 out of 10 games.

 

[HoustonCuse]

They did a nice job tonight. Seemed like a better team than Duke to me and far better than Nova. I hope they do well in the tourney. They don't seem like thugs and goons like Pitt. They have a lot of what is needed to win the tournament but we all know that is often not enough. Good luck to them.

 

[Flight23]

If Virginia doesn't lose Bennett to the NBA, I think they're set up for success. I just don't know how much of this 'elite' success is the result of the system or happening to land the exact mix of players necessary to make the system work. The school has very little, if any, prestige associated with it which makes it a very delicate situation. One bad recruiting class and their defensive strategy involving lightning fast decisions and extreme help defense could fall apart. If they are forced to put even one guy out there who can't gel with the other 4, the entire defense breaks down, and there's no hiding the weak link.

The offense is just a product of the defense, too, IMO. You can afford to play patient offense like they do when you know your defense will get you enough stops in the lessened number of possessions to make it effective. If the defense isn't there though, the offense has to speed up. When the offense speeds up, you have to take more contested shots. You need better players in order to convert those contested shots, which UVA might not be able to land at this point. I agree Bennett has assembled a team of players who flat out do no miss open looks. But does he have players that can go get him a bucket in crunch time no matter what they're facing?

I think most UVA fans would agree we are fairly confident that we will be at this level for as long as Bennett stays with us. He has stated repeatedly that he chose UVA because he loves the institution and chose it as a place to build a program, over places like Indiana who courted him heavily. I think the fans at Wisconsin hope they can steal him away from us, but after listening to Bennett all year I just dont see that happening, and my concern for it is almost negligible now. He'll be at UVA for at least a decade, and I think for the rest of his career... hopefully we have found a 30-40 year coach.

In terms of our team, our freshman are Isaiah Wilkins, Devon Hall, and Shayok. All of them have played major roles since Anderson and later Perrantes got hurt. Wilkins really looks like he will be able to fill the defensive void we may have from losing Atkins this year. Perrantes is a sophomore and is here for 2 more years with plenty of potential following behind him. Brogdon has said he is coming back next year, but he will be the hardest to replace on the offensive end. Shayok will be his replacement on the offensive end, although they are vastly different with Shayok being much more aggressive offensively and Brogdon just slow, steady, and methodically assassinating teams. Brogdon is also our best one on one defender with nobody yet showing his shut down ability in our freshman, but he's had 3 years experience with our system.

Anderson, as important as he is, does not seem as hard to 'replace' as Brogdon or Perrantes. It may take skills from 2 different guys, but the pipeline looks good. We have a strong shot blocker and future center coming in Killeya-Jones who I think will be a HUGE upgrade over Tobey. Gill is just a beast but we see shades of him in Wilkins in terms of the athleticism.

We are redshirting an Australian guy named Salt who I dont have much info on but sounds like he is going to be an imposing physical 4. Guards coming in for 2016 are both 4 star recruits.

Bennett goes after guys that fit his system, only offering a couple of 5 star recruits but mostly focusing on people with the build, skillset, and mentality he is looking for which is much more available in the 4 star recruit level. Killeya-Jones is our first top 50 recruit in a while.

 

[PeteCalvin]

They did a nice job tonight. Seemed like a better team than Duke to me and far better than Nova. I hope they do well in the tourney. They don't seem like thugs and goons like Pitt. They have a lot of what is needed to win the tournament but we all know that is often not enough. Good luck to them.

UVA is 00's Pitt with shooters, so they don't have to mug your scorers. You need scorers to beat this UVA team, and we don't have them. Duke beats them because they can shoot over them or score inside with big bodies, Okafor and Winslow. I actually think that Duke is a worse match-up for UVA than UK. UK's bigs are big, but not scorers. It would come down to whether or not UK could make 3's or move the ball effectively enough to open up lanes. UVA is the real damn deal. I still think Duke beats them in Greensboro, though.

 

[CaptainJ]

Tony Bennett appears to have a specific "system". He plugs in players who seem like interchangeable parts. They are fundamentally sound and a case of the sum greater than its' parts. Not many teams could lose a major player like Justin Anderson, adjust quickly and continue to roll along. All his kids can make open shots and are patient in finding those openings. Definitely not a star system so stars aren't needed to make it work. They win by being efficient using a system to highlight their advantages (including discipline and patience). In a quirky way they remind me of Beilein old teams and Tony Bennett's dad, Dick's, teams at Wisconsin (and Wisconsin-Green Bay) - maybe even a more athletic ACC version of Pete Carill's old Princeton teams.

Well put. It feels nice having someone who's knowledgeable also mention Princeton tonight. I think sometimes certain fans get conditioned into how they feel the game should be played, and feel the need to assign a positive or negative label to something that is new to them or uncommon, rather than just looking at the results. I found it interesting that immediately after the game both Sean McDonough and then Seth Greenberg felt the need to defend UVA. It isn't like they are Gonzaga or Witchita St.

I personally will have no problem rooting for UVA in the post season unlike Duke or UNC. As to the longevity of their success, what they've done with what they have suggests a favorable future for them. However, long term assessments in terms of wins and losses may be premature(for our program as well), so I'll take the JB route on that one.

 

[CaptainJ]

We are redshirting an Australian guy named Salt

I commend you for recruiting the salt of the earth. Tell me, by any chance is his current uniform #28?

 

[Halfmooncuse]

3-4 years ? comon man. If we actually had all our injured players like DC and CM, we would of probably won this game.

We'd still have no shooters, Dc2 is ?.., Cm is not really a banger for rebounds and then there is a coach wedded to certain types of recruits that can only play D in his only D that he plays!

 

[NineOneSeven]

3-4 years ? comon man. If we actually had all our injured players like DC and CM, we would of probably won this game.

They didn't have Anderson. Stop with the "if/would"

 

[kuethstheman]

3-4 years ? comon man. If we actually had all our injured players like DC and CM, we would of probably won this game.

Our defense has been that good a couple of times in the JB era. Our rebounding is that good about once every five years. Our offense hasn't been that good in a few years.

I don't think we're an historically good SU team, even with everyone healthy. We'd have to be to be on a par with UVa right now. Not to say we couldn't steal one but that's always true.

 

[Brooky03]

We'd still have no shooters, Dc2 is ?.., Cm is not really a banger for rebounds and then there is a coach wedded to certain types of recruits that can only play D in his only D that he plays!

CMac was taller/longer than anything Virigina could put on the court (except for goofy 7ft. backup guy). Having CMac and Roberson going after rebounds would have been huge in this game. Idk if we would have tipped the rebounding margin in our favor but we would have been darn close. DC would have also probably done a better job moving Gill out of the paint. Rak is athletic but he's not really big enough to push anybody around.

That said, I think we still would have lost even if we had DC and CMac, it would have just been a much better game.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

UVA is 00's Pitt with shooters, so they don't have to mug your scorers. You need scorers to beat this UVA team, and we don't have them. Duke beats them because they can shoot over them or score inside with big bodies, Okafor and Winslow. I actually think that Duke is a worse match-up for UVA than UK. UK's bigs are big, but not scorers. It would come down to whether or not UK could make 3's or move the ball effectively enough to open up lanes. UVA is the real damn deal. I still think Duke beats them in Greensboro, though.

That is the problem. We recruit for our zone first, talent second. As long as that continues to be the case, and we get guys like Ron Patterson (those long arms sure look great for the zone), I think UVA has our number. We need guys who can stretch the floor with their shooting. More than Cooney.

 

[Flight23]

UVA is 00's Pitt with shooters, so they don't have to mug your scorers. You need scorers to beat this UVA team, and we don't have them. Duke beats them because they can shoot over them or score inside with big bodies, Okafor and Winslow. I actually think that Duke is a worse match-up for UVA than UK. UK's bigs are big, but not scorers. It would come down to whether or not UK could make 3's or move the ball effectively enough to open up lanes. UVA is the real damn deal. I still think Duke beats them in Greensboro, though.

You're right about needing shooters to beat us... the pack-line basically dares teams to shoot the 3, sometimes well contested, sometimes not. Duke did beat us but they had what can only be considered an epic offensive explosion to do so. They scored 34 points in the first 30:20, and 35 points in the last 9:40, shooting 14-17 including 6-7 from 3 point land. Can they do that again? Sure. Are they likely to do that again? I think not... and thus we like our chances in Greensboro. If they beat us again that will definitely be disappointing, we really want to even up the score and duplicate last year with them winning the regular season game but us winning when it counts.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Shorten the shot clock and Virginia is screwed.