UVa > SU, but for how long?

[CuseFaninVT]

CMac was taller/longer than anything Virigina could put on the court (except for goofy 7ft. backup guy). Having CMac and Roberson going after rebounds would have been huge in this game. Idk if we would have tipped the rebounding margin in our favor but we would have been darn close. DC would have also probably done a better job moving Gill out of the paint. Rak is athletic but he's not really big enough to push anybody around.

That said, I think we still would have lost even if we had DC and CMac, it would have just been a much better game.

DC definitely would have helped. Rak is more than strong enough to push people around, he just couldn't play that way in the last few games because there is no one behind him. That one time he fouled Parrentes I really wish he would have knocked him to the floor just to send the message that driving into his chest would not be easy for the driver.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Shorten the shot clock and Virginia is screwed.

Why? They only need the last 10 seconds to get into their offense, everything else is just taking time off the clock. They will just start their offense 5 seconds sooner, but will still use nearly the whole clock and get a bucket with 4 seconds remaining.

 

[Flight23]

Shorten the shot clock and Virginia is screwed.

Logic behind that? We actually would love for the shot clock to be dropped to 30 seconds... If you watch our games we dont use the entire shot clock when we have the ball, but the opposing teams would definitely have a harder time scoring on us in 30 seconds. General consensus is that a shorter shot clock makes our defense that much more potent... there will be more possessions, but teams will take worse shots.

Moving the 3 point line out to 22' will probably make it harder on our defense, that is the change that I think would be bad for us.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Moving the 3 point line out to 22' will probably make it harder on our defense, that is the change that I think would be bad for us.

Interesting point. Why on this - because you think guys will adjust and make them and it will spread the floor more so your defense can't help as much? I could see that.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Logic behind that? We actually would love for the shot clock to be dropped to 30 seconds... If you watch our games we dont use the entire shot clock when we have the ball, but the opposing teams would definitely have a harder time scoring on us in 30 seconds. General consensus is that a shorter shot clock makes our defense that much more potent... there will be more possessions, but teams will take worse shots.

Moving the 3 point line out to 22' will probably make it harder on our defense, that is the change that I think would be bad for us.

You guys made 5 shots at the end of the clock last night. How can you say you don't use the entire clock? I hope they do move the line out to 22 feet. There is nothing I like about Bennett's style of play. It's like a giant game of keep away.

 

[Brooky03]

Logic behind that? We actually would love for the shot clock to be dropped to 30 seconds... If you watch our games we dont use the entire shot clock when we have the ball, but the opposing teams would definitely have a harder time scoring on us in 30 seconds. General consensus is that a shorter shot clock makes our defense that much more potent... there will be more possessions, but teams will take worse shots.

Moving the 3 point line out to 22' will probably make it harder on our defense, that is the change that I think would be bad for us.

We use the same shot clock argument for our defense. Shortening the shot clock would probably have a net zero impact on a UVA-SU game.

 

[Flight23]

You guys made 5 shots at the end of the clock last night. How can you say you don't use the entire clock? I hope they do move the line out to 22 feet. There is nothing I like about Bennett's style of play. It's like a giant game of keep away.

Most of the time we just are looking for a better shot or pass the ball out to the top of the 3 point line and reset, in a game of 60-70 possessions that will not change much for us on offense. Sure a handful of possessions will be rushed a little more than this year, that is a given if the clock is shorter... but the impact on teams playing us will be far greater since we force teams to already take bad shots at the end of the clock already. We give up the fewest transition points in the country... because we are almost always back on defense.

 

[Flight23]

Interesting point. Why on this - because you think guys will adjust and make them and it will spread the floor more so your defense can't help as much? I could see that.

It would spread the defense out more, yeah. Right now offensive players crowd around the 3 point line and our defense crowds just inside the 3 point line. Widen that space and it moves our players further apart and makes helping and recovering on screens much harder, opens up passing lanes more, etc.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

It would spread the defense out more, yeah. Right now offensive players crowd around the 3 point line and our defense crowds just inside the 3 point line. Widen that space and it moves our players further apart and makes helping and recovering on screens much harder, opens up passing lanes more, etc.

Well, your shooters seemed to do fine from 22 feet last night, so clearly the offense (as it were) won't suffer too badly.

 

[CorduroyG]

Ill have some of what you are smoking. They gave us a 13 minute scoring head start and still crushed us. They would have beaten us with those two as well as with Grant and TE. They are really good. Im not sure why people want to run that team down.

They would have beat us at the dome if we had ennis grant and cmac?? Say what????

 

[CuseFaninVT]

They would have beat us at the dome if we had ennis grant and cmac?? Say what????

I could see that as well. None of those guys are consistent 3-point shooters, and that's the only thing that beats UVA this year.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Bennett is a great coach. That was an epic mismatch last night, boys playing against men. He has enjoyed seasoning these guys in his system for a few years, and that experience is what makes them an elite team this year, and is exactly what SU lacks. He was still coaching his team to execute with a 14 point lead and about 4 minutes to go, and they were still attacking the press for in your face slams to the last minute. I hope the underclassmen remember that finish, because that was insulting to the home team. As long as he is running that team, they will be good, and every year he can put an experienced 5 out there like he is doing now, they will be contenders.

 

[CorduroyG]

Virginia's offense will be their downfall. They won't get past 2nd weekend.

 

[orangecuse]

You're right about needing shooters to beat us... the pack-line basically dares teams to shoot the 3, sometimes well contested, sometimes not. Duke did beat us but they had what can only be considered an epic offensive explosion to do so. They scored 34 points in the first 30:20, and 35 points in the last 9:40, shooting 14-17 including 6-7 from 3 point land. Can they do that again? Sure. Are they likely to do that again? I think not... and thus we like our chances in Greensboro. If they beat us again that will definitely be disappointing, we really want to even up the score and duplicate last year with them winning the regular season game but us winning when it counts.

Interesting few sentences there...you could've just as easily plugged in UVA's performance last night relative to your Duke example and chosen hyperbole about their 'epic' explosion. Insinuating that that is what it will take to beat you guys, some type of 'epic' performance. If I recall that game correctly, Duke was up 8-10 points earlier in that game, before UVA went on some 14-0 run when Duke's offense resembled ours over that duration...missing various open shots and bunnies. :bang: It won't take an 'epic' performance for you guys to get beat, a solid one yes, but certainly nothing 'epic.' A couple of different bounces in the VPI and first Wake game and they pull out W's, I don't recall any 'epic' play by either of them.

I understand, you're extremely excited about UVA's very recent success after years of being relatively irrelevant. I think UVA's future is bright as well, especially with Bennett there, enjoy the ride...but keep it real along the way...

 

[SU94]

I think most UVA fans would agree we are fairly confident that we will be at this level for as long as Bennett stays with us.

If you mean, Bennett elevates UVa into a consistent Top 20 program, I am with you (he likely already has). But if you believe that UVa will be a consistent Top 5 program, I believe you are mistaken. I think I eluded to this earlier, but right now, Bennett is getting almost max output from 8-10 kids. Most of these guys were not supposed to be THIS good. But they are. And that is a credit to Bennett and his staff. But there is a good degree of good fortune in that too.

Another factor in this is that his current kids are not overly tempted to go pro early. For some, I am not sure why. I think Gill, Brogden and Perrantes can play in the NBA. But they are not one-and-done kids. When you get individual excellence from players that stick around for 4 years, this is what can happen. You get a 3-4 year window of dominance.

Previous 2-3 year runs in the top 5 that did not sustain that level of excellence: SU (late 80s), Michigan (Fab 5), UConn (circa 2004-06), Florida (2 titles), Virginia (Ralph S. era), Arizona (Sean Elliott).

I am a big believer in Bennett. I just doubt he can elevate every kid that comes through C-Ville the next 5-6 years. Not everyone can "pop." He's bound to have some kids that come in an are what they are supposed or worse (talent regression, malcontents, academics, etc.). It happens. And it will invariably happen to Bennett and the Cavaliers.

Understand, I admire Bennett. But it just won't always be like this, as Flight23 might be hinting at.

 

[longislandcuse]

I honestly think we need to recruit differently and coach differently in the ACC.

The Big East was a monster filled with elite athletes, just so happened we usually had the most elite athletes and we won games because of that. The ACC has great coaching and basketball "teams". Maybe not the athletes we're used to but night in/night out we're facing better coaching and better team play.

Unless we run a prototype defense of 6-4/6-6 up top and 6-8/7'0 along the back line, i'm sorry, I don't want to see zone exclusivity anymore. Second point in regards to recruiting is WE NEED SHOOTERS. Now, it looks like we've addressed that in the incoming class but my goodness.

Until we play better team basketball, get better shooters and stop playing so stubborn (yes, coaching) we're going to struggle against a team like UVA. I think we'll beat Duke and UNC at a decent clip but we'll lose some What games to middle tier teams and get bullied by a team like UVA.

 

[SBU72]

I think most UVA fans would agree we are fairly confident that we will be at this level for as long as Bennett stays with us. He has stated repeatedly that he chose UVA because he loves the institution and chose it as a place to build a program, over places like Indiana who courted him heavily. I think the fans at Wisconsin hope they can steal him away from us, but after listening to Bennett all year I just dont see that happening, and my concern for it is almost negligible now. He'll be at UVA for at least a decade, and I think for the rest of his career... hopefully we have found a 30-40 year coach.

In terms of our team, our freshman are Isaiah Wilkins, Devon Hall, and Shayok. All of them have played major roles since Anderson and later Perrantes got hurt. Wilkins really looks like he will be able to fill the defensive void we may have from losing Atkins this year. Perrantes is a sophomore and is here for 2 more years with plenty of potential following behind him. Brogdon has said he is coming back next year, but he will be the hardest to replace on the offensive end. Shayok will be his replacement on the offensive end, although they are vastly different with Shayok being much more aggressive offensively and Brogdon just slow, steady, and methodically assassinating teams. Brogdon is also our best one on one defender with nobody yet showing his shut down ability in our freshman, but he's had 3 years experience with our system.

Anderson, as important as he is, does not seem as hard to 'replace' as Brogdon or Perrantes. It may take skills from 2 different guys, but the pipeline looks good. We have a strong shot blocker and future center coming in Killeya-Jones who I think will be a HUGE upgrade over Tobey. Gill is just a beast but we see shades of him in Wilkins in terms of the athleticism.

We are redshirting an Australian guy named Salt who I dont have much info on but sounds like he is going to be an imposing physical 4. Guards coming in for 2016 are both 4 star recruits.

Bennett goes after guys that fit his system, only offering a couple of 5 star recruits but mostly focusing on people with the build, skillset, and mentality he is looking for which is much more available in the 4 star recruit level. Killeya-Jones is our first top 50 recruit in a while.

Every coach (and every player) says he's at the school he wants to be. Half say it is their dream job. . . . .until somebody else comes along with more money, and a bigger name. Be it collegiate or pro. Very, very few schools can hold on to a coach for decades especially when they win a lot.

 

[Flight23]

If you mean, Bennett elevates UVa into a consistent Top 20 program, I am with you (he likely already has). But if you believe that UVa will be a consistent Top 5 program, I believe you are mistaken. I think I eluded to this earlier, but right now, Bennett is getting almost max output from 8-10 kids. Most of these guys were not supposed to be THIS good. But they are. And that is a credit to Bennett and his staff. But there is a good degree of good fortune in that too.

Another factor in this is that his current kids are not overly tempted to go pro early. For some, I am not sure why. I think Gill, Brogden and Perrantes can play in the NBA. But they are not one-and-done kids. When you get individual excellence from players that stick around for 4 years, this is what can happen. You get a 3-4 year window of dominance.

Previous 2-3 year runs in the top 5 that did not sustain that level of excellence: SU (late 80s), Michigan (Fab 5), UConn (circa 2004-06), Florida (2 titles), Virginia (Ralph S. era), Arizona (Sean Elliott).

I am a big believer in Bennett. I just doubt he can elevate every kid that comes through C-Ville the next 5-6 years. Not everyone can "pop." He's bound to have some kids that come in an are what they are supposed or worse (talent regression, malcontents, academics, etc.). It happens. And it will invariably happen to Bennett and the Cavaliers.

Understand, I admire Bennett. But it just won't always be like this, as Flight23 might be hinting at.

No I agree with you, I dont think anyonce can expect to be a top 5 program consistently. If he manages to do that with the 3 and 4* recruits he picks up each year then he will end up one of the greatest coaches of all time. Consistent top 20 with occasional runs at the title is good enough for me. I do have a bit more faith than you're expressing that he can mold the players he gets into contenders every year but there is definitely some luck involved...

That being said, Perrantes is just a sophomore and we only have 1 senior. The guys we have in the pipeline definitely seem like they can become stars. Looking at the stars we have this year no one would have predicted they would become what they have 2 years ago. Atkins as our senior is a perfect example... last year his playing time was declining and it looked like he may end up a bust, this year he has filled the defensive void left by Akil Mitchell and then some.

 

[longislandcuse]

Every coach (and every player) says he's at the school he wants to be. Half say it is their dream job. . . . .until somebody else comes along with more money, and a bigger name. Be it collegiate or pro. Very, very few schools can hold on to a coach for decades especially when they win a lot.

Bennett seriously doesn't strike me as a guy who would bolt like that. I also think UVA will pay him. I expect him to be coaching UVA for a long time.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Bennett seriously doesn't strike me as a guy who would bolt like that. I also think UVA will pay him. I expect him to be coaching UVA for a long time.

Wonder how interested he'd be in replacing Bo Ryan when he leaves Wisconsin? I would think he stays put though.

Anyone know that Tony Bennett as a player holds the NCAA record for 3 point field goal accuracy at 49.7%? Wow. No wonder he values players that can make the open 3.

 

[Madbiker]

CM would of grabbed enough boards to make a difference and gave us an extra body out there. Thats one big key we were missing. We are down bodies and people think we suck because of that, we are not that good because we are a depleted bball team and nothing else.

We are a team that cannot shoot the ball this year. Almost every game is under 39%. You are not going to beat good teams (or even some mediocre ones) with that poor of a FG%. CMc was a loss but he wasn't changing the shooting ability of this team.

 

[albanycuse]

We have our worst team in years and people are shocked we got abused on the boards by a top 3 team. They didnt even score 60 points despite our disadvantage of playing with the lack of players. Some of you guys make a mole hill into a mountain.

They are who we thought they were and we are who we thought we were, a bad SU team.

 

[jhmoss1812]

There are some really interesting points in this thread. I'll try to address them.

1) A 30-second shot clock will the downfall of UVA - I am not sure if I buy this. What I think this does is help other teams on the defensive side of the ball. We don't need any help. If teams can't score on us in 35 seconds, they won't be able to in 30 seconds. Also, more possessions do not necessarily translate to more efficient scoring. A shorter shot clock does not make people shoot better or play smarter. In fact, I think a shorter shot clock will put a greater emphasis on efficiency and the efficiency margin (adjusted O - adjusted D). UVa's efficiency margin is excellent this season and I think more possessions would highlight that gap.

2) Bennett will not stay at UVA - He is not leaving UVA for any other college job in my estimation. UVA offers him everything he could possibly want in a college job. Great academic institution, excellent resources, money, top rated conference, and a great basketball environment. His family loves Charlottesville and he's having success here. He might want to jump to the NBA but I think he and others realize that his system in the NBA would probably not succeed.

3) Bennett will not get the most out of future players - I can't think of a single player at UVA that hasn't really improved over their careers. Sure, some players have transferred out and his system is not for everyone but Bennett has shown nothing but an incredible ability to develop players. Will every single player pan out? Of course not. But I don't think there's much evidence to suggest that the success is a result of the current crop of players only.

4) Bennett will not sustain top 5 success - This is one I probably agree with the most. Do you know how hard it is for a non-traditional program to sustain any type of success, let alone top 5 success? UVA will consistently be a top 25 and NCAA tournament team under Bennett. We will not always compete for 1-seeds and NCAA titles but not many teams do. I think, given our recent history at UVA, we can't ask for much more than what he's given us. Whether that translates to postseason success remains to be seen. But I don't think UVA is fading into the middle of the pack either. We will always be a tough out and our offense will continue to improve. We may even land some very high end offensive players in the future. UVA is here to stay under Bennett. But any reasonable UVA fan should temper their expectations if they expect every season to be 28-1 (16-1 in the ACC).

 

[We Are Syracuse]

They obviously beat the snot out of us (again). We stunk. But this was primarily "on" UVa. Let's call it 80-20 (UVa credit, SU playing poorly).

Why is UVa good? Let me count the ways ...

Parrentes. Fantastic. Steady. Same mode, but better than Tyler Ennis (who I loved, but always thought was a tad overrated). Better/deeper shooter, more physicality (never know what Ennis will grow into, but ...), better athlete. And better defender. More spring in his step.

Many of Bennett's athletes share a common thread. They are not only imposing physically (team is quite developed, like Pitt was during their 3-4 year window of excellence), but they are all "quick jumpers." Up and down before guys like Roberson (even Christmas) reload and go up again. We've had guys like this. DC and Wallace, Melo, Otis Hill would tip the ball to themselves because of this ability to jump 2-3 times while the opposition jumps once. Gill does this. Brogdon and Atkins too. Justin Anderson will again once he returns.

Almost all of UVa's skill players (pg, sg, sf, pf) have a ++ handle (for their positions), don't panic with the ball and are above average shooters AND passers. I am not trying to dump on our guys (who I love unconditionally), but we don't have even one of these guys right now. Roberson cannot shoot, Cooney is a bland passer, Silent G is not a real shot maker, BJ offers very little off the dribble.

I've said all of this and not even mentioned Bennett's defense, which is obviously stellar. And it is sour grapes to say that they clutch, hold and impede like Louisville and Pitt do. I watched tonight and they are just always in position. And they dont seem to even sweat while doing so.

UVa can give Kentucky a good run for the money. With a totally healthy Justin Anderson, I'd say they win 5 of 10 games head-to-head against UK. They are that good. Even without Anderson, they win 3.5 times IMHO.

All of this said, I am confident we will flip the script on them in the next 3-4 seasons (next season will be tough). They have an amazing batch of kids and Bennett is a top 10 coach (likely higher), but he's "hit" (as advertised of better) on a remarkable percentage of his recent recruits. It simply cannot always be like this.

He will most of the time because they are great at improving and developing players. Devon Hall who is a redshirt sophomore, will be huge for them in the future. He doesn't even play much. Brogdon will be back next year, Maybe Anderson. He has just built such a solid foundation, it seems hard to believe it will ever fall apart. Maybe some years they won't be 27-1, but they will always be good under him. I mean they have honestly SMOKED everyone in the ACC the past two years. Next year will probably be the same with them only losing Gill (I believe).

 

[jhmoss1812]

He will most of the time because they are great at improving and developing players. Devon Hall who is a redshirt sophomore, will be huge for them in the future. He doesn't even play much. Brogdon will be back next year, Maybe Anderson. He has just built such a solid foundation, it seems hard to believe it will ever fall apart. Maybe some years they won't be 27-1, but they will always be good under him. I mean they have honestly SMOKED everyone in the ACC the past two years. Next year will probably be the same with them only losing Gill (I believe).

Only definite loss at this point is Atkins. Next year, our starting lineup should be Perrantes (Jr), Brogdon (Sr), Anderson (Sr), Gill (Sr), and Tobey (Sr). Sure, Anderson could leave early but it's not definite. Most UVA fans are surprised at how good we are this year. We expected next year to be special but this is a welcomed surprise.