Waiters playing crunch time minutes for the Thunder | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Waiters playing crunch time minutes for the Thunder

I said it before, he's going to have a 10+ year NBA career.

He was a top 5 pick, not really going on a limb with that one. Just busting your chops.

I remember listening to Bud and the Manchild back in the day and Bud (I think it was Bud) said MULTIPLE times that Craig Forth would have a 10 year NBA career. hahaha, I laughed hard then, and I'm still laughing just as hard.
 
I don't doubt they're good dudes; I enjoy watching them play, especially Kyrie. I've just never been convinced a lot of the guys there are 'team-first' types. Waiters isn't either, so it seemed like a case of there being too many mouths and egos to feed.

In fairness, and this is going to be wildly unpopular (possibly deservedly so), LBJ doesn't strike me as being a team-player to the degree he's perceived to be.

He's averaged 7 assists a game over the course of his career from a position that isn't point guard. I'm not looking it up but I'm assuming that it has to be towards the top of non point guards.
 
He's averaged 7 assists a game over the course of his career from a position that isn't point guard. I'm not looking it up but I'm assuming that it has to be towards the top of non point guards.

He shares the ball. That's not what I'm talking about though.
 
He was a top 5 pick, not really going on a limb with that one. Just busting your chops.

I remember listening to Bud and the Manchild back in the day and Bud (I think it was Bud) said MULTIPLE times that Craig Forth would have a 10 year NBA career. hahaha, I laughed hard then, and I'm still laughing just as hard.

For not going out on a limb, when I said that a year or so ago there were a lot of comments that I shouldn't be so sure he would last.
 
I don't doubt they're good dudes; I enjoy watching them play, especially Kyrie. I've just never been convinced a lot of the guys there are 'team-first' types. Waiters isn't either, so it seemed like a case of there being too many mouths and egos to feed.

In fairness, and this is going to be wildly unpopular (possibly deservedly so), LBJ doesn't strike me as being a team-player to the degree he's perceived to be.

I think your point would be more valid if he didn't have similar issues in high school, here, and to some extent OKC last year.

I mean he couldn't fall into line when he had Lebron $#%ing James as a teammate.
 
I think your point would be more valid if he didn't have similar issues in high school, here, and to some extent OKC last year.

I mean he couldn't fall into line when he had Lebron $#%ing James as a teammate.

Lebron is a very dominating presence. Some players (even very successful, non-selfish ones) don't respond well to that. Waiters seems to be one of those types.
 
It's been said a few times in this thread I think, but Dion's biggest problem is he's just nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.
if he accepted a role as a bench player he is talented enough to be a contributor to a good team, but he's not there mentally yet.
 
It's been said a few times in this thread I think, but Dion's biggest problem is he's just nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.
if he accepted a role as a bench player he is talented enough to be a contributor to a good team, but he's not there mentally yet.

Efficiency isn't his hallmark and he's more of a combo than a strict 2. FWIW his advanced metrics are terrible in his career. He has an Offensive rating of less than 100 and his defensive rating is 110.
 
I think you need to elaborate...because he's a facilitator, sometimes to a fault.

I can see the point, every team that Lebron is on is going to revolve around Lebron, even when he's facilitating for other people. (And he's probably the least selfish superstar ever, certainly if you take out PG, who are supposed to facilitate by their nature)

Most great players are going to have the team revolve around them, because they're great. Not being able to co-exist with Lebron doesn't strike me a s good defense for Dion. Doesn't speak well to the kind of player he is.
 
I can see the point, every team that Lebron is on is going to revolve around Lebron, even when he's facilitating for other people. (And he's probably the least selfish superstar ever, certainly if you take out PG, who are supposed to facilitate by their nature)

Most great players are going to have the team revolve around them, because they're great. Not being able to co-exist with Lebron doesn't strike me a s good defense for Dion. Doesn't speak well to the kind of player he is.

I figured that's what he was getting at. But that's a Dion problem.
 
I think you need to elaborate...because he's a facilitator, sometimes to a fault.

I'm not necessarily speaking about his play on the court. It's more his attitude. I'm aware he is a facilitator. Bringing up his assists, and ability to play PG, and willingness to give up shots to others, isn't impacting what I'm saying.

Since I've probably riled up a bunch of people already, I might as well keep going. He's a spoiled child (in terms of his basketball life. idk or care about outside of basketball) who never matured emotionally and never developed into the mentor he should be at this age. He likes to make it clear, despite his willingness to pass in games, that whatever team he is one is 'his team.' He doesn't show much respect to his coaches, which probably trickles down to the other players, and if Lebron doesn't like a player, that player tends to go bye-bye. I'm not saying Lebron is necessarily unique in this regard; some other stars over the years have done similar stuff.

I think Lebron brought Waiters in expecting him to be like a Mario Chalmers who Lebron could mold into what he wanted him to be. Waiters is not that kind of guy though and I think it hurt his play. Waiters has an inflated sense of self and is/was a chucker. He has his issues, undoubtedly. But I don't think the players and coaches around him in Cleveland did much to help. In fact, I think the personalities on that team made it worse.

There, I said it and I'm done. I'm not going to continue arguing the point because a) the argument will get really sidetracked from the thread's topic and b) arguing against Lebron is like arguing in Boston against Tom Brady. No good will come from continuing this.
 
I think there is a lot to what you said, but i don't really think that's very different than most great players, or even guys who aren't all time greats. (Pretty sure Melo at least played a part in Jeremy Lin leaving the Knicks, for instance)

But if you can't succeed on the court playing with Lebron James, I'm not going to feel any sympathy for you. I'm not exactly sure what you would have wanted the coaches to do? Get Dion more touches at the expense of Lebron and Kyrie?
 
Vets chasing rings line up to play with Lebron.

Lebron wants a bunch of shooters around him. That's not Dion. OKC doesn't let Dion run the offense (obviously) but they also don't stick him in the corner like he's Bruce Bowen.
 
Vets chasing rings line up to play with Lebron.

Lebron wants a bunch of shooters around him. That's not Dion. OKC doesn't let Dion run the offense (obviously) but they also don't stick him in the corner like he's Bruce Bowen.

The thing is with Russ and KD that's kinda what they should do. Then again it's not like he shoots a great percentage from 3, but maybe in a spot up role he would do better.

We're talking about a guy with a career 48.7% TSP. If he was the kind of guy who hogged the ball a lot but at least had respectable percentages, that would be one thing, but he's one of the least efficient guards in the league. There were 84 qualifying SG last year; Dion ranked 76th in true shooting %. (Man was Lance Stephenson bad last year)
 
Vets chasing rings line up to play with Lebron.

Lebron wants a bunch of shooters around him. That's not Dion. OKC doesn't let Dion run the offense (obviously) but they also don't stick him in the corner like he's Bruce Bowen.

True. Had Dion behaved in CLE he would've had PLENTY of chances to dominate the ball especially in Finals when Irving was injured and Delly was making a name for himself.
 
Yeah, he'll be a player with upside in a weak free agent class in a year with a stupid amount of cap space.

Also I really don't think there's much chance of OKC offering him one.

Assume Dion roughly has the same year he did last year, I wonder what kind of deal he's looking at? I probably have no concept because of how much salaries are gonna go up, maybe 6-7 per year? Derrick Williams is similar in that he was a high pick who hasn't lived up to his potential, there's the hint of upside; he got like 2/10 with the second year a player option. So maybe 2/12 or something?
 
Also I really don't think there's much chance of OKC offering him one.

Assume Dion roughly has the same year he did last year, I wonder what kind of deal he's looking at? I probably have no concept because of how much salaries are gonna go up, maybe 6-7 per year? Derrick Williams is similar in that he was a high pick who hasn't lived up to his potential, there's the hint of upside; he got like 2/10 with the second year a player option. So maybe 2/12 or something?
I think you're low balling big time. Some team is going to want help and his youth will be appealing. I think his next contract will start at 10 million a year.
 
I'm not necessarily speaking about his play on the court. It's more his attitude. I'm aware he is a facilitator. Bringing up his assists, and ability to play PG, and willingness to give up shots to others, isn't impacting what I'm saying.

Since I've probably riled up a bunch of people already, I might as well keep going. He's a spoiled child (in terms of his basketball life. idk or care about outside of basketball) who never matured emotionally and never developed into the mentor he should be at this age. He likes to make it clear, despite his willingness to pass in games, that whatever team he is one is 'his team.' He doesn't show much respect to his coaches, which probably trickles down to the other players, and if Lebron doesn't like a player, that player tends to go bye-bye. I'm not saying Lebron is necessarily unique in this regard; some other stars over the years have done similar stuff.

I think Lebron brought Waiters in expecting him to be like a Mario Chalmers who Lebron could mold into what he wanted him to be. Waiters is not that kind of guy though and I think it hurt his play. Waiters has an inflated sense of self and is/was a chucker. He has his issues, undoubtedly. But I don't think the players and coaches around him in Cleveland did much to help. In fact, I think the personalities on that team made it worse.

There, I said it and I'm done. I'm not going to continue arguing the point because a) the argument will get really sidetracked from the thread's topic and b) arguing against Lebron is like arguing in Boston against Tom Brady. No good will come from continuing this.

Tom Brady is not a good quarterback.
 
I think you're low balling big time. Some team is going to want help and his youth will be appealing. I think his next contract will start at 10 million a year.

If he has the same kind of season he's had the last few years? Oh man. I know the cap has gone up but he hasn't been good at all as a pro.

I think either way this thread will be fun to bump in a few months. I'll either look really stupid or really smart. But I think the perception of Dion within the league is vastly different than it is on this board. Think it's a lot closer to my opinion of him.
 

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