Waiters To Philly?

[Waltdods]

All the "Dion should stay and accept what they give him to win a championship" crap is from people who dont play. Players want to play first (or maximize their money first) which is similar to what we all do in our working lives. If Dion has anything to do with this trade, I respect him for wanting to play. He burns to be on the court. That is great. Being a hanger on to a possible LeBron title in Cleveland is for a soon to be washed up Ray Allen type at the end of his great career, not a kid just starting out trying to create a name for himself.

I agree that the kvetching about what Waiters should do is silly - for one it is by no means clear he has any say in the matter and for two, it's his life not ours.

But, since this is a message board, I will disagree anyway. Being the sixth man for this Cavs team is quite possibly the single best thing that Waiters could do at this time in his career. He's got two more years of his rookie contract anyway, so the money isn't going to matter much in the short term. But he should be able to put up a lot of points and win a lot of games with the Cavs. When he does so, the chances of someone overpaying a high-scoring Sixth Man on a championship or near-championship team are basically 100 percent. Being the second or third option on a terrible team for the next two years is going to accomplish none of that. (And will also further the evolving narrative that he's not a winner, which I'd argue shouldn't matter but almost certainly does.)

I think the wanting to be on the court stuff is kind of silly. He'll play maybe a few less minutes a game for the Cavs but will also play many more games as one team will be in the playoffs and the other in the lottery. Particularly assuming Wiggins and Bennett are out, Waiters seems guaranteed to play a lot of minutes in Cleveland.

(And maybe this is just my personal experience, but I don't buy the analogy to work either - I just took a job with a 50 percent paycut that has some short-term downsides but long-term payoffs; I don't think this is particularly uncommon. People lucky enough to have options in their career should be thinking long-term, not what is most immediately satisfying today.)

 

[SUfanNC]

Why would you lie about something like that?



Sorry "not gonna lie" has become my biggest language pet peeve.

How do you feel about "to be honest with you"?

 

[Czar]

I gotta imagine Philly will immediately try to move Martin for scrap, either a 2nd round pick or something. Even then, while a long contract, it's relatively inexpensive.

 

[pulaski74]

I, for one have not seen any evidence that the cavs wany to move dion, they know what they have a possible Vinnie Johnson, or a phil Jackson coming off the bench, plus a starter in case of injury. I am not an expert but I see dion as a cav, and possibly a superstar w/ maturity

 

[realorange]

If it became a question of Dion making the trade viable for Love, he'd be gone in a heartbeat.

 

[Brooky03]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Waiters going to Philly.

1) It's his hometown, and practically every NBA player would love the opportunity to start for their hometown team.

2) Philly has a very young, promising team with plenty of money to spend on the right free agents. So, there's no reason not to think they could be a Title contender in the near future. Yeah, he's missing out on playing for a current Title contender, but I'd argue that it's worth it. There's a huge difference between being the sixth man on a championship team and being a starter on a championship team.

3) Most people would agree that getting paid the most for your services as you can is generally advisable. That's not going to happen as a sixth man.

4) We all heard about the locker room problems in Cleveland. You can't blame a man for wanting to get away from that.

5) If Wiggins doesn't get moved, he's Waiters' replacement. I wouldn't want to play with a media darling rookie nipping at my heels constantly. Sure, it can serve as motivation, but it can also get tiresome when you've already proven yourself as an above average SG in the league.

 

[Nicknack]

To be honest with you, I'm not going to lie, this thread rocks (in my humble opinion).

 

[Waltdods]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Waiters going to Philly.

1) It's his hometown, and practically every NBA player would love the opportunity to start for their hometown team.

2) Philly has a very young, promising team with plenty of money to spend on the right free agents. So, there's no reason not to think they could be a Title contender in the near future. Yeah, he's missing out on playing for a current Title contender, but I'd argue that it's worth it. There's a huge difference between being the sixth man on a championship team and being a starter on a championship team.

3) Most people would agree that getting paid the most for your services as you can is generally advisable. That's not going to happen as a sixth man.

4) We all heard about the locker room problems in Cleveland. You can't blame a man for wanting to get away from that.

5) If Wiggins doesn't get moved, he's Waiters' replacement. I wouldn't want to play with a media darling rookie nipping at my heels constantly. Sure, it can serve as motivation, but it can also get tiresome when you've already proven yourself as an above average SG in the league.

Definitely agree there's nothing wrong with Waiters wanting to go to Philly. It's his life and the way he balances competing considerations is totally up to him, including some of the soft factors you put in here (hometown, locker room). I still think Cleveland is the better spot from a long-term value-maximizing position, although this is somewhat dependent on whether Wiggins sticks around - as you point out the CLE spot looks less appealing if Wiggins is still there. (Though it is hard for me to envision Cleveland keeping both of them anyway - even if they don't get Love they're likely to go shopping and Wiggins and Waiters would seem to be the most likely chips.)

Thinking about (1) where can he win and (2) where does he maximize his money (I think this is basically what your points 2 and 3 are getting at). The chances of winning are clearly higher at Cleveland over any credible timeline. Philly has a lot going for it and could turn into a championship contender, but there are a lot of twists and turns before then, and Cleveland already is a champion contender. Bird in hand, etc.

I guess the bigger debate comes at where he maximizes his money. I think the key here is to look at the timing. Waiters has two more years under club options, which presumably will be picked up. So it's really 2 or 3 years out that matters. Philly is not going to be a championship contender by then, or anything better than a borderline playoff team in the terrible East. So in the version of the world where Waiters goes to Philly, he enters his free agency years as a volume scorer who has played solely for terrible teams and who left his first team on bad terms (as you point out re locker room issues). Does that Waiters really command more money than a guy who's averaged 15 points (or whatever) for a title contender in fewer minutes?

 

[jimsonjunction]

Dion recently had the chance to clarify his tweets. Seems like he was just expressing his honest opinion.

I like the way he handled this, thought it was worth a share. Click the link for his full statement.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....ns-tweet-saying-he-wouldnt-accept-bench-role/

 

[Symphony Steve]

Doesn't look like Waiters is coming to Philly. According to reports, there WILL be a three-way deal. But it'll reportedly be Anthony Bennett coming to Philly along with draft pick(s) for Thaddeus Young, who would end up in Minny. Of course, the principals are Wiggins and Love.

The ring is still in play for Dion.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If the Cavs actually can get Marion at the vet minimum, I think trading Wiggins looks a lot smarter. They need somebody other than Lebron that can actually play decent perimeter defense if they fancy themselves a real contender.

PG - Irving
2G - Thickburger
SF - Lebron
PF - Love
C - Sideshow Bob

Bench -
Thompson
Miller
Marion
Roster filler