Waiters Vs. Triche (Last 9 games plus Florida)--Clobber Me Now

[arbitragegls]

okay, I get it...Scoop is starting PG because he is creative..and when Scoop plays good Scoop we have no one better...and when he plays bad Scoop...well we survive. But here is the interesting factor that I finally understand. JB has said it now TWICE in last four games about Waiters:
1. Against Rutgers he is struggling
2. Can't be shooting 4-27 or something like that for 'Cuse to win
3. I can't look back, but he is Explosive...we need him
4. Stats from ESPN

In the beginning of the season, Waiters was dynamite--NBA material. He was gettng noteriety for best 6th man in nation...maybe even best player on 'Cuse. But in last nine BE games and Florida, he has not been the "Bring it to Guy". In fact, in the last 9 games and Florida, as well as our closest games, won by less than 10 points Dion hasnt been Dion and INFACT isnt close to being the #2 guard on the team(now eye test may be important; in fact lingering images of Dion making unbelieveable dunks and shots from earlier in season may give all of us smiles; fact is; Dion isnt playing up to Dion's expected Standards of late. Dion is not the #2 guard on 'Cuse this year (at least for last nine games and Florida). His swagger is gone and perhaps this is why JB is playing him so much--either because Dion's head needs it; WE need Dion to play through it...'cause his explosiveness is important to win the NCAA...but hey, DION's pop and maybe his mojo has left the building and JB is trying to get it back (at the risk of hurting 'Cuses most consistent and stable guard-Triche).

Let's look at the 9 games + Florida mentioned above. These are the last 9 plus Florida...so there have been some close games including the only loss. Here are the STATS for Waiters and Triche--stats don't lie but they do have to be part of an overall view--Waiters isnt as good in these 10 games as he was in the first 15...Triche is consistent throughout...we need Dion's explosiveness and ability to break out...BUT HOW LONG DO WE WAIT(ERS):
10 GAMES + FLORIDA (most recent)
min FG 3pt FT

WAITERS 25.5 33-94(35%) 6-28(21%) 15-26(57.6%

TRICHE 25.0 33-80(41%) 15-38(39.5) 26-31(85.8%)

Importantly, if you just look at Louisville, Georgetown, WVU, ND and MARQUETTE all close games, here are the stats:

WAITERS 30.4 16-55(29%) 3-17(17.6%) 11-17(73%)

TRICHE 24.2 19-43(44%) 8-22(36%) 7-7(100%)

In recent 9 games + Florida and in games against Louisville, GT, WVU, ND and Marquette..all close games and a loss...Triche has far better numbers than Waiters. The kicker here is that Triche does this unremarkably while Dion is considered a "STAR" because his play is so much more explosive and his dunks are great--ONLY thing is Dion has not performed to his beginning of the year magic...we need this Magic back but it is unfortunate that Triche's playing time decreases while JB tries to get WAITERS back on track--I guess I can agree with JB's motivation but do not like the board indicating that Waiters is NBA and the teams go to guy...just hasnt happend in close and recent games.

 

[dasher]

wait a second here...are you saying that you like BT's game more than dion's?? I never would have guessed that. While I like bt's game a lot, it does seem like more happens when Dion is in the game. A certain amount of energy.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

You will get 38mins per game from Triche next season. It's not far off!

 

[arbitragegls]

I do find it interesting that we have placed so much attention and all in on Dion...when the last 9 games and close ones say not so fast. Dion may have the upper protential vs Triche and others...but 10 games is a good enough sample to wonder what has happened to Waiters...he is not the player he was for the first 15 games and has not been the reason why we are winning now...nor is Triche.
Look at Scoop, Melo, Fair and KJ...they are taking the team on their shoulders...but STOP indicating how good Waiters is...he has underperformed in all our close games...maybe his start at the season was overblown and we continue to remember those games...I prefer what have you done recently!

I truly believe JB is trying to get the old Waiters back...but boy what a struggle. I will be pleased to see the explosiveness and break out player--the go to guy--but let's hope it happens soon!

 

[arbitragegls]

wait a second here...are you saying that you like BT's game more than dion's?? I never would have guessed that. While I like bt's game a lot, it does seem like more happens when Dion is in the game. A certain amount of energy.

This is not a Triche VS. Dion post...it is simply a post that say two things: one Dion hasnt been Dion in last 9 games and close games...and that Triche is unremarkable but stats show he is good and probably is playing better than Waiters right now...

 

[KaiserUEO]

put me in the pro-triche room.

i think that makes 2 of us in there. :noidea:

Oh Lord

 

[kingottoiii]

You are a joke.

1. Why include Florida? That is just dumb.

2. You stats do not look right at all and you are cherry picking games. Triche in that last 11 games is 6/29 from three or 20.7% so I am not sure how you get to nearly 40% from three. Waiters over that time is 12/40 or 30%.

That fact is both BT and DW are struggling right now.

 

[arbitragegls]

You are a joke.

1. Why include Florida? That is just dumb.(Florida was a close game...get it that Waiters isnt doing all that much in close games..hence GT, WVU, Margquette and Louisville--which happen to be last few games
2. You stats do not look right at all and you are cherry picking games. Triche in that last 11 games is 6/29 from three or 20.7% so I am not sure how you get to nearly 40% from three. Waiters over that time is 12/40 or 30%.
look it up big boy

That fact is both BT and DW are struggling right now.

suggest you go look at following game stats from espn...before you call someone a joke, try to really dig into the information...games Used...
1.Louisville
2. Georgetown
3. WVU
4. ND
5. Marquette
6. Rutgers
7. Conn
8. st johns
9. Cinn
10 Fl
Have a ball with this...fact is, Dion is not playing as well as he did in beginning of season...and dont call a stat man a joke...

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

How much more of Triche do we need to see to realize he's a 10/2/2 kid through and through. Nice...as a rotation player, but not someone who is going to save us.

 

[arrow2arinzesknee]

Triche is the most underrated player on our squad, and I think next year when he is playing 35 minutes a game you are gonna see just how good he is.

 

[kingottoiii]

suggest you go look at following game stats from espn...before you call someone a joke, try to really dig into the information...games Used...
1.Louisville 0-3
2. Georgetown 1-4
3. WVU 2-4
4. ND 1-2
5. Marquette This is 12 games ago why are we leaving the other 3 below out?
6. Rutgers 0-1
7. Conn 1-3
8. st johns 0-4
9. Cinn 1-2
10 Fl Why are we including a game in Nov?

??? Where is Pitt? 0-2 Where is PC? 0-2? Where is Nova? 0-2?

Have a ball with this...fact is, Dion is not playing as well as he did in beginning of season...and dont call a stat man a joke...

No you are still a joke and a LIAR as well.

 

[dasher]

I think bt can do more. A lot more. But I completely understand the coach playing Dion more. As I said before, it just seems that we have more energy when dion is in the game. having said that, I sure want Bt in the game when we are ahead late.

 

[Alsacs]

The reason Waiters is playing in the 2nd half and somebody said it in the chat I don't remember whom but they are 100% because he can beat his guy off the dribble in the last 5 minutes and JB wants somebody who can create his own shot or get somebody else an open shot with the ball. As much as I like Triche he IS AWFUL with the ball in the hands and can't create his own shot he is a catch and shoot guy. If we need shooting BT will play if we have a lead and want to beat guys off the dribble and "kill" the clock like JB does than Waiters will play because of his ability to beat a guy off the dribble. Waiters has to learn not be selfish and PASS the ball Doris Burke broke a play where instead of passing the ball to an open Scoop in the corner for a 3 Dion went 1 on 2 and took a wild bank shot. Triche is a SG not a PG he needs to work on his dribble driving if he wants to play at the next level next year MCW and BT will be the guards at the end.

 

[br801]

I do find it interesting that we have placed so much attention and all in on Dion...when the last 9 games and close ones say not so fast. Dion may have the upper protential vs Triche and others...but 10 games is a good enough sample to wonder what has happened to Waiters...he is not the player he was for the first 15 games and has not been the reason why we are winning now...nor is Triche.
Look at Scoop, Melo, Fair and KJ...they are taking the team on their shoulders...but STOP indicating how good Waiters is...he has underperformed in all our close games...maybe his start at the season was overblown and we continue to remember those games...I prefer what have you done recently!

I truly believe JB is trying to get the old Waiters back...but boy what a struggle. I will be pleased to see the explosiveness and break out player--the go to guy--but let's hope it happens soon!

Nice post all around.

Your reputation as a Triche fan may keep some people from reading it or taking you seriously, but your take pretty much sums up what my eyes and the numbers are telling me.

 

[br801]

put me in the pro-triche room.

i think that makes 2 of us in there. :noidea:

Oh Lord

That room might be bigger than you think.

 

[44cuse]

10 GAMES + FLORIDA (most recent)
min FG 3pt FT

WAITERS 25.5 33-94(35%) 6-28(21%) 15-26(57.6%

TRICHE 25.0 33-80(41%) 15-38(39.5) 26-31(85.8%)

BT is 7-31 in these games. Not 15-38.

I think Dion is playing terrible right now, but getting the #'s right is important. Dion may very well have more upside than BT. BT has not played up to his potential as much as Dion has. Getting 100% of Dion (when he comes around) will be better than 100% of BT based on what we have seen.

There was a point (in this season included) when I agreed with Bilas that BT was possibly the best player on the team. That's not the case for me anymore.

44cuse

 

[orangefan13]

I like Triches game better right now heres why...

Experience. It comes down to Dion being in his second year Triche in his third*

Triche has gotten better off isolation dribble he didn't have alot last year.
Triche last year was all over the floor on offense. He did the same when Fab was out.

Dion hasn't really found any of those in this long slump of his yet he is still explosive.

However I will also say I like Dions defense so much better. Triche has the IQ but Dions reflexes are just that much better.

 

[SoBristol]

The reason Waiters is playing in the 2nd half and somebody said it in the chat I don't remember whom but they are 100% because he can beat his guy off the dribble in the last 5 minutes and JB wants somebody who can create his own shot or get somebody else an open shot with the ball. . . . . . Triche is a SG not a PG he needs to work on his dribble driving if he wants to play at the next level next year MCW and BT will be the guards at the end.

We can't take this debate to an extreme -- BT is a good player, he is a combo guard who can play some PG if you don't have a legit, quick guard. He would play 30 plus minutes for a lot of teams.

But I agree with Alsacs. Dion plays late in the 2nd half (actually, he usually plays late in both halves) because he can take a share of the pressure away from Scoop. He is always a threat to dribble drive or get his own shot. The defenders have to be aware of Dion. He can get past his defender and into the lane. It is part of the energy he adds.
Think about it -- you might not want BT to have the ball with 10 seconds left on a shot clock and a defender in his grill. And, yet, that is exactly how JB wants to work the clock with a lead in the last 5 or even 10 minutes of a game.

 

[pfister1]

To the extent that you are saying that comparing the results that Triche and Dion have posted the last 9 or 10 games would not lend themselves to a significant playing time advantage one over the other. And to the extent that you are positing that the possible reason that JB is playing Dion more than Triche despite the actual on court results is that he sees a higher level from Dion that Dion is closer (and did early on) to achieving I think you are correct.

I think JB believes that this team needs what a high level Dion can give it, more than it needs what a high level BT can give it, in order to maximize its potential. Whether Dion will eventually deliver or not is anyone's guess until the games are played. That isn't intended to be a slight to BT, simply a guess as to how JB thinks this team needs to be constructed if it is going to have its best chance at a National Championship. IGOR would calling it predetermination or being Boeheimed, I would call it evaluating your talent and trying to make realistic assessments as to where investments of playing time will yield the greatest return.

 

[Ghost]

Importantly, if you just look at Louisville, Georgetown, WVU, ND and MARQUETTE all close games, here are the stats:

WAITERS 30.4 16-55(29%) 3-17(17.6%) 11-17(73%)

TRICHE 24.2 19-43(44%) 8-22(36%) 7-7(100%)

I get what you're saying here - when Brandon plays a lot, and even plays well, we end up with closer games. Therefore we should go all-Dion all the time! Am I right?

Can't argue that Dion is struggling, or that I wouldn't mind seeing BT get more minutes. Not sure how to explain it. Then again, I would be okay with MCW getting some first-half run against more laid-back defenses - so I'm just all sorts of crazy.

 

[IthacaMatt]

okay, I get it...Scoop is starting PG because he is creative..and when Scoop plays good Scoop we have no one better...and when he plays bad Scoop...well we survive. But here is the interesting factor that I finally understand. JB has said it now TWICE in last four games about Waiters:
1. Against Rutgers he is struggling
2. Can't be shooting 4-27 or something like that for 'Cuse to win
3. I can't look back, but he is Explosive...we need him
4. Stats from ESPN

In the beginning of the season, Waiters was dynamite--NBA material. He was gettng noteriety for best 6th man in nation...maybe even best player on 'Cuse. But in last nine BE games and Florida, he has not been the "Bring it to Guy". In fact, in the last 9 games and Florida, as well as our closest games, won by less than 10 points Dion hasnt been Dion and INFACT isnt close to being the #2 guard on the team(now eye test may be important; in fact lingering images of Dion making unbelieveable dunks and shots from earlier in season may give all of us smiles; fact is; Dion isnt playing up to Dion's expected Standards of late. Dion is not the #2 guard on 'Cuse this year (at least for last nine games and Florida). His swagger is gone and perhaps this is why JB is playing him so much--either because Dion's head needs it; WE need Dion to play through it...'cause his explosiveness is important to win the NCAA...but hey, DION's pop and maybe his mojo has left the building and JB is trying to get it back (at the risk of hurting 'Cuses most consistent and stable guard-Triche).

Let's look at the 9 games + Florida mentioned above. These are the last 9 plus Florida...so there have been some close games including the only loss. Here are the STATS for Waiters and Triche--stats don't lie but they do have to be part of an overall view--Waiters isnt as good in these 10 games as he was in the first 15...Triche is consistent throughout...we need Dion's explosiveness and ability to break out...BUT HOW LONG DO WE WAIT(ERS):
10 GAMES + FLORIDA (most recent)
min FG 3pt FT

WAITERS 25.5 33-94(35%) 6-28(21%) 15-26(57.6%

TRICHE 25.0 33-80(41%) 15-38(39.5) 26-31(85.8%)

Importantly, if you just look at Louisville, Georgetown, WVU, ND and MARQUETTE all close games, here are the stats:

WAITERS 30.4 16-55(29%) 3-17(17.6%) 11-17(73%)

TRICHE 24.2 19-43(44%) 8-22(36%) 7-7(100%)

In recent 9 games + Florida and in games against Louisville, GT, WVU, ND and Marquette..all close games and a loss...Triche has far better numbers than Waiters. The kicker here is that Triche does this unremarkably while Dion is considered a "STAR" because his play is so much more explosive and his dunks are great--ONLY thing is Dion has not performed to his beginning of the year magic...we need this Magic back but it is unfortunate that Triche's playing time decreases while JB tries to get WAITERS back on track--I guess I can agree with JB's motivation but do not like the board indicating that Waiters is NBA and the teams go to guy...just hasnt happend in close and recent games.

Thanks for taking the time to provide that analysis. I think at the end of the discussion, it comes down to this: Brandon cannot get by his man and get to the hole as reliably as Dion can. Brandon is a solid guy, love having him in the rotation, and he is very steady. But Brandon seldom explodes like Dion can. In order to win the title, we need both Dion and James to snap out of it and start scoring again, like they did a month ago. That's the bottom line right now. We have to rebound better, and we need those 2 guys to start scoring again.

This is why it's nice to have 1o guys, by the way. The 2 frosh are turning into token rotation guys, but if we do have to play them for an extended period, they both have gotten 250-300+ minutes of playing time so far - enough for them to hopefully not be too nervous if we have to play them due to foul trouble or injury. Then you still have a couple key guys out of the top 8 who are not scoring, and we still are 27-1. I mean, that's outrageous. We're really deep, even as we see the rotation tightening down to 8 guys, we still have quality depth and flexibility.

 

[kingottoiii]

Here is a better argument for you. Against teams currently ranked (ND, UL, Fla, Marq, GTown) our Gs have produced the following:

Scoop 28.2 Min 22.9% FG 9.1% 3pt 58.3% FT 4.8 PPG 2.4 Reb 6.0 Asst 1.6 Steals 3.6 TOs
Triche 26.4 Min 38.3% FG 31.8% 3pt 100% FT 11.4 PPG 3.6 Reb 2.4 Asst 1.2 Steals 1.2 TOs
Waiters 27.4 Min 27.8% 21.1% 3pt 63.6% FT 8.2 PPG 3.6 Reb 3.2 Asst 1.6 Steals 1.4 TOs

All three have played poorly, but Triche is the closest to normal of the three by far. Right now Scoop is hot and should get the most PT. However based on our 5 most difficult games, Triche deserves more PT than he has gotten.