Want a better offense, go find an O Line, plain and simple. the

[IthacaBarrel]

rest will fall into place... its the the number one driving force in Marrone's offense. Deal with the QB accuracy issues in a year because that isn't going away npr is Nassib

 

[kingottoiii]

Can we ever have a good OL? We haven't in the past. This year we had 2 All BE OLmen. How many more do we need?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Can we ever have a good OL? We haven't in the past. This year we had 2 All BE OLmen. How many more do we need?

We have an undersized center, sieves at both tackle spots, who commit more penalties than good blocks, we may have never had a great line but we have several go on to NFL careers, we must have been decent. You need as many as it takes... ALL BE lineman? BFD

Pound for pound our best and smartest athletes need to be on the front 5 to make Marrone's system work.. I am convinced of it, just because we have never had it doesn't mean it can't happen. We haven't had a good offense in 15 years.. should we just give up

 

[kingottoiii]

My point is I do not think we can get the talent needed. When we had good Os in the past the system (lots of misdirection) and QB (being able to escape) hide how bad our OLs were. I think taking an approach that needs an OL that is strong in order to have a successful O, is flawed.

 

[RMH44]

We have an undersized center, sieves at both tackle spots, who commit more penalties than good blocks, we may have never had a great line but we have several go on to NFL careers, we must have been decent. You need as many as it takes... ALL BE lineman? BFD

Pound for pound our best and smartest athletes need to be on the front 5 to make Marrone's system work.. I am convinced of it, just because we have never had it doesn't mean it can't happen. We haven't had a good offense in 15 years.. should we just give up

Justin Pugh is a sieve? Really?

 

[Chip]

rest will fall into place... its the the number one driving force in Marrone's offense. Deal with the QB accuracy issues in a year because that isn't going away npr is Nassib

I did notice that the best offenses in this bowl season so far seemed to have pretty good pass protection. Not to say there weren't some QB moves in the pocket that were helpful, but in general when guys dropped back they had some time to breath and look around.

I don't think you need the Dallas Cowboys OLine from 1993 to make that happen. We should be able to get a group that can keep a front 4 from mugging a QB on most plays.

 

[rosconey]

cant underplay just what a liability macky was to the oline and offense-
when you have to always have a second guy helping the center unless he is pulling it cant be good-
when he is pulling if he cant get to his block or gets thrown off it cant be good-
if only you could put his brain in a kid with a legit div1 body-

if macky starts again dont expect anything different next year-center is such a crucial position,you have to have a athlete with size and brains-

 

[IthacaBarrel]

My point is I do not think we can get the talent needed. When we had good Os in the past the system (lots of misdirection) and QB (being able to escape) hide how bad our OLs were. I think taking an approach that needs an OL that is strong in order to have a successful O, is flawed.

I think trying to find another Mcnabb or even a Graves is flawed...

 

[upperdeck]

fix the oline and the issues go away. even avg rcvrs can get open given time. we need to get to the point where we can usually pick up 3rd and two running and at least 50/50 on pass protection letting the qb set his feet. for all the doom and gloom we were a solid drive away from winning 8-9 games this year even with all the issues. we made more plays this year, but we also broke down a bit more as well. 8 wins went to 5 even though i think we played better for larger stretches of games.

play makers over come the issues, if we cant be solid we need play makers.

 

[kingottoiii]

I think trying to find another Mcnabb or even a Graves is flawed...

It would be but we don't need that. Heck our O was a lot better when we had RJ Anderson as our QB compared to now. We need a QB between RJ and McNabb. I think that is easier to do that to get an OL like Wiscy.

 

[Townie72]

We have an undersized center, sieves at both tackle spots, who commit more penalties than good blocks, we may have never had a great line but we have several go on to NFL careers, we must have been decent. You need as many as it takes... ALL BE lineman? BFD

Pound for pound our best and smartest athletes need to be on the front 5 to make Marrone's system work.. I am convinced of it, just because we have never had it doesn't mean it can't happen. We haven't had a good offense in 15 years.. should we just give up

You need to switch your picture to one of Marie Antoinette. If were as simple as you apparently think it is, then everyone would do it.

Big, tough and agile OL's are at a great premium. Everyone wants them. But there aren't that many and the elite schools get most of them.

The only school that has been able to grow their own consistently is Nebraska with their 5 year plan and low tuitions which allow it.

 

[Chip]

You need to switch your picture to one of Marie Antoinette. If were as simple as you apparently think it is, then everyone would do it.

Big, tough and agile OL's are at a great premium. Everyone wants them. But there aren't that many and the elite schools get most of them.

The only school that has been able to grow their own consistently is Nebraska with their 5 year plan and low tuitions which allow it.

Ironically, 3 of the 4 offenses that looked terrible yesterday (Nebraska, Penn State, Ohio State), are schools that typically produce some of the best offensive linemen. Florida was the 4th terrible offense yesterday.

 

[GoSU96]

It would be but we don't need that. Heck our O was a lot better when we had RJ Anderson as our QB compared to now. We need a QB between RJ and McNabb. I think that is easier to do that to get an OL like Wiscy.

What the hell does the QB have to do with the comparison?

It's because we had Morant, Tyree, Riddle, Mo Jackson, Mungro, Kyle Johnson, Reyes, Ferri, and Rhodes playing when he was at QB.

You think really think RJ was a better QB than Nassib is?

Yeesh.

 

[Fjoinkay]

Last night Andrew Luck was 27-31. He was under pressure more often than not... 27-31. He was the projected #1 draft pick after last year after his sophomore season, and he's the #1 pick this season leaving after his junior year. Impossible to compare.

What I saw yesterday and all week were QBs who extended plays under pressure with their feet. Every team has QBs under pressure. No college offensive line is so good that it gives it's QB all the time in the world to throw the ball. SU's OL did pretty well allowing less than 30 sacks with a QB who struggles to avoid pressure. And last year was the 4th consecutive year SU had a 1000 yard rusher.

 

[SoBristol]

"Go find an OL" -- sure, and in that same magical place, find a mobile QB, several speedy play-makers, and throw in the next Dwight Freeney.

It will take years to build an OL that can carry an offense. Two of our returning starters won't ever be world-beaters; the other spots will have raw second year players who haven't had any snaps to date. If you need a strong OL to build your offense, you might not be liking what we have in 2012 or 2013.
Much more likely to find a RB who can play early, a WR who can play early, and a dual threat QB. We have recent experience with what one star RB (Carter) and one star WR (Williams) can add to an offense.

 

[timkay99]

My point is I do not think we can get the talent needed. When we had good Os in the past the system (lots of misdirection) and QB (being able to escape) hide how bad our OLs were. I think taking an approach that needs an OL that is strong in order to have a successful O, is flawed.

I would agree with you Otto, but the head man here is a former OL coach. If Syracuse ever had a chance at building a strong OL, it would be under Marrone.

Given that, I think Marrone has built his offense around having good OL play. And, I think Marrone can do it. IMO, this is the year to define that. His high schoolers should be the guys taking over at 2 of the spots.

I am tired of reading everyone complain about Macky. The only reason you complain about Macky is because you didn't watch the games and see Hay and Chibane get absolutely abused.

If Macky is the worst problem on the OL next year, I personally think we will be in good shape.

 

[timkay99]

What I saw yesterday and all week were QBs who extended plays under pressure with their feet. Every team has QBs under pressure. No college offensive line is so good that it gives it's QB all the time in the world to throw the ball. SU's OL did pretty well allowing less than 30 sacks with a QB who struggles to avoid pressure. And last year was the 4th consecutive year SU had a 1000 yard rusher.

The QB's facing Syracuse defense had pretty close to all day to throw...

You must have been watching different games then me. Nassib had time to make 1 progression and then needed to start moving around the pocket. And that was pretty consistent.

These teams gave their QB time to make at least 2 progressions in the pocket (for deeper routes) before they started to break down.

I am shocked if anyone watching those OL's and the time they gave vs. the time Syracuse OL game and call it the same. It isn't.

Nassib isn't without fault, but the OL is the biggest issue to the offense, IMO.

 

[CaliCuse]

rest will fall into place... its the the number one driving force in Marrone's offense. Deal with the QB accuracy issues in a year because that isn't going away npr is Nassib

That has always been my position. The O-line is the one major key to a successful football team. When the O scores enough points and keeps a quality defense rested you win most games.A game full of three and outs is a formula for defensive fatigue and not enough points to compensate for that occurrence.We have some quality becoming available next season in some cases Adkins and Marrone need to get them performing. I'm thinking Hickey,Curtis and Trudo The incoming guys will red-shirt hopefully and we go from there . If the team stinks at the same level Doug will have to start looking over his shoulder for his replacement. This may sound premature but there were grumblings at the end of last season that Dr Gross no doubt heard. If attendance drops precipitously you can bet the search will begin once again. Now understand this. I am a Marrone supporter. I like the man and think he wants to succeed as much as we want him to do that.

 

[CaliCuse]

I would agree with you Otto, but the head man here is a former OL coach. If Syracuse ever had a chance at building a strong OL, it would be under Marrone.

Given that, I think Marrone has built his offense around having good OL play. And, I think Marrone can do it. IMO, this is the year to define that. His high schoolers should be the guys taking over at 2 of the spots.

I am tired of reading everyone complain about Macky. The only reason you complain about Macky is because you didn't watch the games and see Hay and Chibane get absolutely abused.

If Macky is the worst problem on the OL next year, I personally think we will be in good shape.

Sometimes I wonder if these guys spent too much time at bullfight watching the matadors Far too manyoles

 

[kingottoiii]

What the hell does the QB have to do with the comparison?

It's because we had Morant, Tyree, Riddle, Mo Jackson, Mungro, Kyle Johnson, Reyes, Ferri, and Rhodes playing when he was at QB.

You think really think RJ was a better QB than Nassib is?

Yeesh.

You need reading comprehension. My point was that the OL was not very good from 1999-2004 yet we had functional Os. I do not think we need or can have a very strong OL at SU. So you need to find ways around that with misdirection and mobile QBs. I like Nassib but he will never make up for an OL's weaknesses. IB said McNabb doesn't grow on tress, which I agreed. Then I went on to say even with RJ Anderson we were able to hide the OL's issues. Our system and Nassib do not hide our OL issues.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You need to switch your picture to one of Marie Antoinette. If were as simple as you apparently think it is, then everyone would do it.

Big, tough and agile OL's are at a great premium. Everyone wants them. But there aren't that many and the elite schools get most of them.

The only school that has been able to grow their own consistently is Nebraska with their 5 year plan and low tuitions which allow it.

I never said it was simple nor is Marrone's scheme but it's obvious that he needs a really good O line to run it. Oregon, Baylor,WVU, Leach type systems not so much that operate in space. You weren't listening, if you want a power running game and play action pass, you need O Line that can still open up holes on a stacked box, not so much with these speed teams. There is a big difference.

You should change your picture to a scarlet knight and continue to discuss the state of new jersey like anyone truly cares about it on a Syracuse football forum

 

[kingottoiii]

I would agree with you Otto, but the head man here is a former OL coach. If Syracuse ever had a chance at building a strong OL, it would be under Marrone.

Given that, I think Marrone has built his offense around having good OL play. And, I think Marrone can do it. IMO, this is the year to define that. His high schoolers should be the guys taking over at 2 of the spots.

I am tired of reading everyone complain about Macky. The only reason you complain about Macky is because you didn't watch the games and see Hay and Chibane get absolutely abused.

If Macky is the worst problem on the OL next year, I personally think we will be in good shape.

I would agree with that if Marrone were more involved in the OL coaching. But from reports he stayed away from the OL. If his O is so OL centric, shouldn't he spend a lot of time there?

And if we are to be OL centric it will take awhile to get the O going. Next year we will have at least two young inexperienced guys. 2013 we have a shot at being good as every starter will be back. If not then in 2014 we could be losing all 5 starters so back to the drawing board. Which means it might now be till 2015 when the OL has a chance to be good. If we have to wait that long, I am not sure Marrone will be.

 

[timkay99]

I would agree with that if Marrone were more involved in the OL coaching. But from reports he stayed away from the OL. If his O is so OL centric, shouldn't he spend a lot of time there?

And if we are to be OL centric it will take awhile to get the O going. Next year we will have at least two young inexperienced guys. 2013 we have a shot at being good as every starter will be back. If not then in 2014 we could be losing all 5 starters so back to the drawing board. Which means it might now be till 2015 when the OL has a chance to be good. If we have to wait that long, I am not sure Marrone will be.

I agree with your first part. I was very disappointed to hear he was hands-off on the OL. It definitely concerns me about him going forward.

It is possible for the OL to take a step forward this year. I mean, RT is going to be an upgrade. RG will hopefully be a guy that can pull and move around a bit more then Tiller. I think the playbook will open up.

And I would agree if 2015 is when the OL has a chance to be solid average to above, Marrone will be gone.

 

[Fjoinkay]

The QB's facing Syracuse defense had pretty close to all day to throw...

You must have been watching different games then me. Nassib had time to make 1 progression and then needed to start moving around the pocket. And that was pretty consistent.

These teams gave their QB time to make at least 2 progressions in the pocket (for deeper routes) before they started to break down.

I am shocked if anyone watching those OL's and the time they gave vs. the time Syracuse OL game and call it the same. It isn't.

Nassib isn't without fault, but the OL is the biggest issue to the offense, IMO.

Just about every QB SU played against extended plays with his feet numerous times per game especially on 3rd downs. SU's OL can be much better for sure, but how many sacks this year could have been avoided with a better mobility or anticipation or faster decision making? I don't know, but after 2 years I'm pretty sure it's a factor.

 

[buffalorange]

rest will fall into place... its the the number one driving force in Marrone's offense. Deal with the QB accuracy issues in a year because that isn't going away npr is Nassib

Totally agree. Watch teams like LSU, even against a strong competitor like Alabama. It seems like the QB has time for a cup of coffee before leisurely going through progressions on pass plays.