We often debate if the Dome has ever been sold out

[storange]

That isn't realistic. Our schedule is too hard year in and year out. Can we have some years where we go 10-3? Sure but not consistently. Our program will fluctuate in the 5-7 to 9-4 range most years. When we are 9-4 will we need 50k? Sure. But what about the years where we are 8-5 or worse? Those years we will need at most 45k.

Sure but what will it take to get that 47k? If it takes a 9-4 or better record, then that 47k will rarely happen. Unless you can guarantee 9-4 years, the choice is 44k in a 44k stadium or 45k in a 50k stadium. You are creating a false argument.

We got 48 two years ago.

 

[Chip]

That is fair but we wouldn't be downsizing for downsizing sake. If we add club seating, more boxes, and real seating it will attract more fans and make more money all while reducing capacity. The renovation is to make the Dome better not to reduce supply.

I'm not opposed to that, depending on the logistics of it all. I think we just need this new era of a high octane offense to prove what kind of crowds we can get, and what people are willing to pay. We'll know what kind of buyers we'd have for club seats, boxes, etc.

We say this a lot here, but SU really needs to get its act together with football ticket pricing. Sure, I enjoy the $99 (now $125) season ticket because I only go once or twice per year so it pays for itself given how good our seats are. But that $99 season ticket means there are way too few people who would ever want to buy an individual sideline ticket for $75, or whatever they are selling them at.

Just need smart people to dig us out of it. Coyle inherited the problem so maybe he's thinking step one is excitement, then fix it.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We got 48 two years ago.

Not per game. You don't have a 50k stadium because you need 48k once a year. That is silly.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm not opposed to that, depending on the logistics of it all. I think we just need this new era of a high octane offense to prove what kind of crowds we can get, and what people are willing to pay. We'll know what kind of buyers we'd have for club seats, boxes, etc.

We say this a lot here, but SU really needs to get its act together with football ticket pricing. Sure, I enjoy the $99 (now $125) season ticket because I only go once or twice per year so it pays for itself given how good our seats are. But that $99 season ticket means there are way too few people who would ever want to buy an individual sideline ticket for $75, or whatever they are selling them at.

Just need smart people to dig us out of it. Coyle inherited the problem so maybe he's thinking step one is excitement, then fix it.

it's an easy problem to solve if not for the ire of people who made big donations to get their seats that get very angry about peasants sitting near them

they need to pay those few old timers in the oceans of silver some of their money back to buy their silence when they fix everything

 

[storange]

Not per game. You don't have a 50k stadium because you need 48k once a year. That is silly.

Im not sure what the problem is, you get 42 and the place looks full and is very loud, There is nothing to lose by having those 8k extra seats available. Im not sure how big the market is for club seats. Again I would wait to see what happens after a couple of good years before I start cutting capacity. If we win and still can't improve attendance dramatically then by all means cut away.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Do you think it helps recruiting when another school can say "they can't even sell out a 50k stadium?"

Please, you get 45-48K in that place for games and there isn't a better home field advantage in football. Recruiting? win games, put points on the board play and exciting brand of football and you want to talk about 2,500 fans hurting recruiting. Get attendance back to what it was in the 90's, people can talk smack all they want about our home field attendance all they want, get the kids in for a visit for the 4-5 good games that year and it will sell itself.

I just don't agree with you here nor will I ever

 

[TheCusian]

Not per game. You don't have a 50k stadium because you need 48k once a year. That is silly.

Football stadiums are silly anyhow. Bazillion dollars for 6-8 games a year.

 

[VirginiaOrange]

Do you think it helps recruiting when another school can say "they can't even sell out a 50k stadium?"

You over estimate what many schools get for football. Sure tune in for a big game between huge state schools and you'll see a sell out. But tune the same schools in early in the season and you'll see a lot of empty seats. And when you look at schools that are comparative to SU, no one sells out or average more than 50K.

 

[storange]

Please, you get 45-48K in that place for games and there isn't a better home field advantage in football. Recruiting? win games, put points on the board play and exciting brand of football and you want to talk about 2,500 fans hurting recruiting. Get attendance back to what it was in the 90's, people can talk smack all they want about our home field attendance all they want, get the kids in for a visit for the 4-5 good games that year and it will sell itself.

I just don't agree with you here nor will I ever

Exactly, Its now been long enough that we have a generation of fans that have no idea what the dome used to be like for big games. Or the town and the media and the hype that went with it.

 

[All4SU]

If we are winning consistently, the Dome is the perfect size. Let's keep our eyes on the prize here.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Do you think it helps recruiting when another school can say "they can't even sell out a 50k stadium?"

Does it hurt Duke basketball that they only have 9,000 people in Cameron?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Does it hurt Duke basketball that they only have 9,000 people in Cameron?

I am not saying size matters. I am saying empty seats matter.

To expand on this 46 schools averaged 90% capacity. For SU to average 90% capacity we would need to average 44.5k per game. An 8-5 SU won't be able to pull in that number.

 

[storange]

I am not saying size matters. I am saying empty seats matter.

Then Miami is screwed, Temple and Pitt are in big trouble, USF is gone ect....

 

[IthacaMatt]

"FrancoPizza, post: 1632562, member: 5195"]I get that we're losing seats mostly as a consequence of renovation, not as a driving factor. I just don't understand all the giddiness over losing seats
=== = = = = =

Because the bench space allocated for one fanny is too small, especially when people bring coats for the games. We need seating with chair backs. You have to remember that you are competing to get people to leave the comforts of their homes, large screen TV's, etc. You have to have some amenities, you need comfortable seating, decent parking, the ability to move through the hallways to get concessions or get to the bathroom. Big crowds at the Dome are awful for all of those things.

 

[storange]

"FrancoPizza, post: 1632562, member: 5195"]I get that we're losing seats mostly as a consequence of renovation, not as a driving factor. I just don't understand all the giddiness over losing seats
=== = = = = =

Because the bench space allocated for one fanny is too small, especially when people bring coats for the games. We need seating with chair backs. You have to remember that you are competing to get people to leave the comforts of their homes, large screen TV's, etc. You have to have some amenities, you need comfortable seating, decent parking, the ability to move through the hallways to get concessions or get to the bathroom. Big crowds at the Dome are awful for all of those things.

Here's a tip, taking away a few thousand seats from the Dome is not going to change most of those things.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Then Miami is screwed, Temple and Pitt are in big trouble, USF is gone ect...

Agreed. There is a reason why Miami has only been good when they cheat. They do not have the following to support a Top 10 program. If they had the fan support they would be a lot more successful.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Here's a tip, taking away a few thousand seats from the Dome is not going to change most of those things.

Now you have just gone crazy. The reason the capacity would be reduced is to add nicer seating, better amenities, and make it easier to walk around the Dome. So yes taking away seating to improve the Dome would improve those things. :crazy:

 

[RF2044]

Please, you get 45-48K in that place for games and there isn't a better home field advantage in football. Recruiting? win games, put points on the board play and exciting brand of football and you want to talk about 2,500 fans hurting recruiting. Get attendance back to what it was in the 90's, people can talk smack all they want about our home field attendance all they want, get the kids in for a visit for the 4-5 good games that year and it will sell itself.

I just don't agree with you here nor will I ever

Spot on. Nobody is going to worry about "only" having 47k versus 50K, because the place will be full and loud. You wouldn't even notice where those 3K are missing from if they are interspersed around the Dome.

Let's get to the point where we can consistently support that level of attendance again before worrying about losing seating.

 

[Millhouse]

Please, you get 45-48K in that place for games and there isn't a better home field advantage in football. Recruiting? win games, put points on the board play and exciting brand of football and you want to talk about 2,500 fans hurting recruiting. Get attendance back to what it was in the 90's, people can talk smack all they want about our home field attendance all they want, get the kids in for a visit for the 4-5 good games that year and it will sell itself.

I just don't agree with you here nor will I ever

if 45k is good enough for baylor and TCU, it's good enough for us

for me 35k is a cut off where you really start to look rinky dink high school

 

[sutomcat]

If the Dome is expanded in the manner currently being discussed, where a new Dome is built around the existing one and the two are incorporated together, you are going to end up with a smaller Dome inside a big one, where the seating in the upper deck stops well before where the new outer walls are.

There will be plenty of room to build a third deck of seating that will fill that gap if fan interest ever reaches the point where this is needed.

If switching to individual seats takes us down to 44K, I would guess that there will be an option to add at least another 20K of seats, probably more like 25 or 30K. That really depends on how big the new Dome ends up being.

This could surely be done in a phased fashion if need be. But I would be shocked if the renovation did not include provisions for expanding capacity to at least 65K.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Not per game. You don't have a 50k stadium because you need 48k once a year. That is silly.

no its not.

theres only 6 games a year anyway.

start winning or even playing exciting football and you will need 48k + 2 or 3x a year.

maybe more.

but seriously, i we really splitting hairs over a couple of thousand seats??

whats the difference, anyway??

its not like there will be a tax on it.

let them sit emtpy if need be.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Here's a tip, taking away a few thousand seats from the Dome is not going to change most of those things.

I disagree. Part of an overhaul of the Dome as has been discussed on here so far would address all of those things except for the parking.

 

[xc84]

Sure but what will it take to get that 47k? If it takes a 9-4 or better record, then that 47k will rarely happen. Unless you can guarantee 9-4 years, the choice is 44k in a 44k stadium or 45k in a 50k stadium. You are creating a false argument.

It'll take what happened in the late 80s and 90s. I don't need to guarantee anything. If we don't get a 9 win season, we won't fill 44K either.

 

[xc84]

I am not saying size matters. I am saying empty seats matter.

To expand on this 46 schools averaged 90% capacity. For SU to average 90% capacity we would need to average 44.5k per game. An 8-5 SU won't be able to pull in that number.

88 46K Avg.
89 49K
90 47K
92 49K
93 48K
94 47K
96 48K
97 46K
98 46K
99 47K

 

[FrancoPizza]

Sure but what will it take to get that 47k? If it takes a 9-4 or better record, then that 47k will rarely happen. Unless you can guarantee 9-4 years, the choice is 44k in a 44k stadium or 45k in a 50k stadium. You are creating a false argument.

On the other hand, if we were proposing reducing stadium capacity back in 1998... after a decade of sustained success and crowds that would routinely exceed 44k, you'd get some strange looks.. The powers-that-be would never go for such a stunt, fearful of lost revenue. It used to be that stadium expansion was only considered when sellouts became customary. Now our excuse is that we're not selling out the place, so it's ok to rip seats out. :noidea:

Backwards. Small time.