We should break the bank and hire this guy as ST coach

[OrangeMuskyFish]

The main argument for Yankees fans on why Felix shouldn't have won was "He didn't have enough wins, CC had more." Felix was hands down the best pitcher in the AL that year, he just didn't get wins because the Mariners couldn't get him run support. Hell, John Lackey has 12 wins this year and his ERA is OVER 6! That alone tells you all you need to know about that stat.

But precisely why these advanced stats are overrated IMO... why do you need a fancy stat to quantify what you just said? You can actually watch a guy like Lackey, take a quick glance at a few basic stats, and make your own evaluations. Just like you just did. To me that is much more valuable than just comparing people to see who's obscure stat is the most impressive. Again, I don't think they are worthless, I just think that they are given way too much weight. I have seen so many debates between people where the actual skills of the players in question are not even brought into the discussion, or even resented.

 

[Czar]

But precisely why these advanced stats are overrated IMO... why do you need a fancy stat to quantify what you just said? You can actually watch a guy like Lackey, take a quick glance at a few basic stats, and make your own evaluations. Just like you just did. To me that is much more valuable than just comparing people to see who's obscure stat is the most impressive. Again, I don't think they are worthless, I just think that they are given way too much weight. I have seen so many debates between people where the actual skills of the players in question are not even brought into the discussion, or even resented.

Alright Joe Morgan. You do realize those stats just quantify exactly what you see on the field, right? They're not just magically pulled out of the air and you can't ing see that, right?

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

Alright Joe Morgan. You do realize those stats just quantify exactly what you see on the field, right? They're not just magically pulled out of the air and you can't ******* see that, right?

Perhaps my favorite part about these arguments is the hypocritical stance by the SABR fans. Bill James himself says that the main point of his work is to prove that you don't have to do things in a cookie-cutter manner and to think for yourself... but when someone chooses to utilize a more traditional outlook, SABR folk want to denounce you for not thinking like them. And by the way, Joe Morgan may be a crusty old fart who displays moments of senility, but the guy has forgotten more about baseball than you will ever know (i retract this statement if you are indeed a collegiate or pro coach of longer than a decade).

 

[bnoro]

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You realize you cited WAR, a statistic that is all about how much a player contributes to his team winning, right?

And Felix Hernandez winning the Cy Young was a disgrace? Are you insane?

I cited WAR for a very specific reason. Interestingly enough, if you look up how WAR is calculated you'll find that the player's actual team performance in wins and losses has no bearing whatsoever on their WAR. So... it is definitively not a good measure of how much a player actually contributed to his team winning. It's all hypothetical. Really, I'm not making this up. This is one of the best explanations I've read - http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/bi...lways-wanted-to-know-about-WAR?urn=mlb-211211.

As for King Felix winning the Cy Young being a disgrace in my view, no, I am not insane. I simply cannot agree that in a sport where there is a clear outcome where there is a winner and a loser that someone can be "the best" and not be a winner. Hernandez does not pitch in a vacuum. His effort is not independent from his team's. The winning has to matter, otherwise what is the award celebrating?

I'm not saying that Felix Hernandez isn't a good pitcher. I'm saying that the baseball stat heads haven't gotten it right yet and they celebrated their own genius too soon.

 

[Czar]

FELIX'S PERFORMANCE HAS LITERALLY JACK TO DO WITH HOW HIS TEAM BATS!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

FELIX'S PERFORMANCE HAS LITERALLY JACK **** TO DO WITH HOW HIS TEAM BATS!

BUT IT DOES HAVE TO DO WITH WHETHER HIS TEAM WON, AND THEY DIDN'T WIN. AWARDS ARE FOR WINNERS.

WHY ARE WE YELLING?

 

[Czar]

BUT IT DOES HAVE TO DO WITH WHETHER HIS TEAM WON, AND THEY DIDN'T WIN. AWARDS ARE FOR WINNERS.

WHY ARE WE YELLING?

BECAUSE EVEN IF A PITCHER NEVER ALLOWS A SINGLE RUN, HE COULD STILL NOT WIN A SINGLE GAME THAT SEASON, AND YOU FAIL TO COMPREHEND THAT

 

[OttoinGrotto]

BECAUSE EVEN IF A PITCHER NEVER ALLOWS A SINGLE RUN, HE COULD STILL NOT WIN A SINGLE GAME THAT SEASON, AND YOU FAIL TO COMPREHEND THAT

I DON'T FAIL TO COMPREHEND THAT I JUST THINK THAT INDIVIDUAL PERFORMANCE NO MATTER HOW GREAT SHOULD EVER BE ACCOMPANIED BY THE HIGHEST ACCOLADES UNLESS THAT GREAT INDIVIDUAL PERFORMANCE ALSO LEADS TO TEAM WINNING.