What do people actually want from coaches/athletes? | Syracusefan.com

What do people actually want from coaches/athletes?

billsin01

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The moral outrage over the pee-test gate story (JoePa/Sandusky and Fine accusations are a different story, just to be clear) is just the latest example of the drastic need for people to recalibrate their expectations for athletes and coaches in college and the pros (the saints story is another pointless story as is beer in the mlb clubhouse). It's fine to go with the "the playing fields are where our young kids become adults and develop character and discipline blah, blah, blah..." schtick when we're talking about youth sports (though even then it's not nearly so simple).

But this is big-time college athletics. Here are some truths that people need to come to grips with:

-- Coaches are paid 6-7 figures to win games and raise the profile of the university and, preferably, not get caught doing something bad.

-- Athletes need to stay eligible and preferably not break the law very often and in return they get school for free, a chance to develop AS ATHLETES (not people) and a few other benefits that the school would be fine turning a blind eye to

-- Drugs and alcohol are part of life and are basically woven into the fabric of college life in particular.

-- The qualities that make a good athlete/coach can make a good person -- confidence, discipline, drive, ambition, etc -- but not all athletes have those qualities and those qualities don't always make for a "good" person.

-- What makes a "good" person is highly debatable. I think quacks like Rick Santorum are bad people ... and he might be president.

-- Admissions requirements are dung and should be done away with. We, as a society, are far better off with a talented hoops player playing basketball and at least making some nominal progress toward a degree than are to have that same player returning to his East Baltimore neighborhood and trying to figure out some other livelihood. And, while we're on teh topic, the top lacrosse player from Gilman whose father is a CEO probably cares even less about philosophy 101 than anyone on the campus.

-- Academics are often a sham. There are smart athletes who get why it's a good idea to have an education for their futures. There are plenty who don't care at all and there are a bunch that fall somewhere in between on that spectrum. This shouldn't be shocking.

-- Human beings who are constantly told they are tremendous have a tendency to let it go to their heads. And when that happens, they're not always the greatest human beings anymore. Take waiters, who may be a great guy for all I know, but didn't we offer him in 8th grade? I mean the kid has been told he's the second-coming for the last 7 years (at least). YOu mean to tell me you too wouldn't have thought your s--t didn't stink if everyone was telling you that in middle school/high school?

Anyway, there are probably more. But it just cracks me up when people get so worked up about drug testing -- PEDs or otherwise -- academic requirements, poor behavior, etc. Who cares? This is what should be expected of coaches/players:

Coaches
Win, hopefully do it within the rules or at least don't get caught otherwise, stay out of legal trouble for the most part, and if you can help these kids become solid adults, great. But win.

Athletes
Work at your sport, try and make some sort of progress towards a degree, try not to do anything to jeopardize your career/scholarship, don't get in much legal trouble. Win.

That's really it. If these kids avoid stuff like DUIs, rapes, assault, burgalary, selling drugs -- we should all be fine with it. If the coaches anything other than complete and total , publically, then we should basically judge them on win/loss.

That's it. These myths of strong character development guys are absurd. "Marrone Guys" are the same as everyone else's. Academic honor roles? Fine, great. Win. JB isn't babysitting his players on weekends? He isn't spending 365 days a year trying to convince Fab Melo of the importance of his Western Civ survey? Who cares? Not his job. Win.

It's the simple bottom line that people are people. Going to the Naval Academy is terrific, but believe me, there are plenty of jackholes at that place (believe me, I covered it). Being a military officer is great but you can still be an a$$hat. Politicians? We all know that story. Priests? Listen there are still plenty of great ones, but they are humans operating from a position of power. Not always a good thing.

Folks just need to relax, root for teams and accept that a majority of big-time athletes are not terrific people. It's fine.
 
What?! Don't tell me the Seton Hall, Providence, Marquette and Louisville players aren't all Boy Scouts and their coaches aren't paragons of Victorian Virtues. What is wrong with my wanting Syracuse to occupy the moral high ground with schools such as Rutgers, Notre Dame and Villanova??? Let's face it...Syracuse is on the road to institutional Hell. The athletics program -- mainly the basketball program -- is rotten to the core; it's a literal morass of debauchery. All presided over by "Hear No Evil, See No Evil" Boeheim. We should be grateful to people like Mark Schwarz and Pat Forde for shaming our once great university into reflecting on its Mephistophalactic bargain. I do believe if we confront our sins honestly and renounce our illegitimate conversion to Big Time Athletics we can regain our moral compass and, in turn, we can find ourselves once more welcome among the ranks of our rightful Big East brethren.
 
We are continually hearing that the players are "student-athletes". Well, a lot of their fellow students are partaking in illicit substances.
 
What?! Don't tell me the Seton Hall, Providence, Marquette and Louisville players aren't all Boy Scouts and their coaches aren't paragons of Victorian Virtues. What is wrong with my wanting Syracuse to occupy the moral high ground with schools such as Rutgers, Notre Dame and Villanova??? Let's face it...Syracuse is on the road to institutional Hell. The athletics program -- mainly the basketball program -- is rotten to the core; it's a literal morass of debauchery. All presided over by "Hear No Evil, See No Evil" Boeheim. We should be grateful to people like Mark Schwarz and Pat Forde for shaming our once great university into reflecting on its Mephistophalactic bargain. I do believe if we confront our sins honestly and renounce our illegitimate conversion to Big Time Athletics we can regain our moral compass and, in turn, we can find ourselves once more welcome among the ranks of our rightful Big East brethren.
Really? Villanova? Gary McClain? There have been Bo violations since 2003...12 years.
There IA a very prominent booster who is still angry that SU seemingly turned its back on Edelin for his issues

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk
 
Does it matter if you are letting players play who fail tests for blow rather then weed? And no I am not arguing they are both illegal.

I am arguing the opposite. On other crimes we make distinctions on how serious they are before dishing out consequences
 
What?! Don't tell me the Seton Hall, Providence, Marquette and Louisville players aren't all Boy Scouts and their coaches aren't paragons of Victorian Virtues. What is wrong with my wanting Syracuse to occupy the moral high ground with schools such as Rutgers, Notre Dame and Villanova??? Let's face it...Syracuse is on the road to institutional Hell. The athletics program -- mainly the basketball program -- is rotten to the core; it's a literal morass of debauchery. All presided over by "Hear No Evil, See No Evil" Boeheim. We should be grateful to people like Mark Schwarz and Pat Forde for shaming our once great university into reflecting on its Mephistophalactic bargain. I do believe if we confront our sins honestly and renounce our illegitimate conversion to Big Time Athletics we can regain our moral compass and, in turn, we can find ourselves once more welcome among the ranks of our rightful Big East brethren.
If that is sarcasm it's an awesome post.
 
in order

1. be good citizens
2. win games
3. be good students
 
Championships, no major crimes, don't hurt women.


Colin Cowherd had a great point last week when the UCLA story broke. He said UCLA has a few bad seasons and a few guys who like to party and a player whos a pretty big pain in the @ss to everyone in the progra, and Howland lacks institutional control. Urban Meyer has over 25 players get arrested but in that span won 2 out of 3 championships and he's a great coach.
 
1. Go to and pass all of your classes.
2. Do not commit crimes w victims (assault, burglary, drunk driving)
3. Win
 
Yep. Sarcasm it is. Didn't want to be too obvious, however.
I was pretty sure. But nothing is a lock on this board, especially this season.
 
Colin Cowherd had a great point last week when the UCLA story broke. He said UCLA has a few bad seasons and a few guys who like to party and a player whos a pretty big pain in the @ss to everyone in the progra, and Howland lacks institutional control. Urban Meyer has over 25 players get arrested but in that span won 2 out of 3 championships and he's a great coach.

Yeah, the narrative seems to be pretty random - and the media dictates it so you just deal with it. Look at Tressel, everyone on ESPN seemed to want to paint him as a victim (or at least some super-stand up guy that made a mistake) - but he's had problems with the NCAA everywhere. It's a similar situation to Meyer.

I don't really care about tattoos tbh (i would imagine free tattoos and weed are two of the biggest violations by student athletes at this level that nobody cares about), but it's just funny how the picture gets painted. John Wooden is the standard by which all others are judged and he was the biggest cheater of them all. He had a decade of players bought and paid for by boosters - but Ben Howland is out of control. :(

At the end of the day I expect kids to be kids - get in fights, get bad grades, do drugs, and all the while hopefully they're maturing. It's freaking college - happens. I imagine there is a point where you need to cut ties, and hopefully you have the right people in place to judge when that should go down.
 
Honestly, I want them to play the sport well and with passion. I've learned to compartmentalize my life a lot better. Family is family, friends are friends, sports is sports. Please entertain me and play hard. What you do in your free time, I really dont give a f.
 
in order

1. be good citizens
2. win games
3. be good students

I entirely disagree with this.

On point 1, how many college kids are good citizens by any definition? And, as far as athletes go, they're often surrounded by guys and people who aren't great citizens -- AAU coaches, agents, whatever guys like World Wide Wes are ... It would be nice if they were good citizens but you have to give college kids a wide berth on this -- drugs/alcohol, debauchery, sleeping half the day away, video games, etc. are far more ingrained in college culture than volunteerism, studiousness, self-control, etc. are. You can dislike it, but it's true.

On point 2: It should be point 1, unless by being good citizens you meant generally avoiding major legal trouble, in which case I get it.

On point 3: You've got a lot of kids -- I bet CJ Fair is one, though I don't know that -- who are basically surviving high school based on an incredibly shaky academic foundation built in elementary and junior high. Basketball players in particular often come from horrible areas with horrible schools and often have little to no support for academics at home. Others simply know they don't have to be good students, and that's enough to do it. I don't know, it would be great if these kids were great students and I wish they were, but worrying about anything other than these kids staying eligible is just pointless, IMO.
 

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