What we took for granted about JB.

[Delmar]

Sometime late in his tenure during the post-game interviews, JB said something that completely summed up what his genius was. He said something to the effect that everything he did, he did to win the game in front of him. We all hated his short rotation, how quickly he pulled young talent out of a game, how he didn’t allow the bench to mature in game experience. That’s how I felt.
JB acted to win every game —rotations and developing talent for other games down the line be damned. (Remember how quickly he pulled Christmas as an underclassman, but that worked out alright).
We took for granted a kind of genius that drove many of us crazy, but was genius nonetheless.

 

[sufan59]

Sometime late in his tenure during the post-game interviews, JB said something that completely summed up what his genius was. He said something to the effect that everything he did, he did to win the game in front of him. We all hated his short rotation, how quickly he pulled young talent out of a game, how he didn’t allow the bench to mature in game experience. That’s how I felt.
JB acted to win every game —rotations and developing talent for other games down the line be damned. (Remember how quickly he pulled Christmas as an underclassman, but that worked out alright).
We took for granted a kind of genius that drove many of us crazy, but was genius nonetheless.

Truly, if recruiting didn’t fall off in the last 7 to 8 years. Those 7 to 8 years go a lot differently. Maximized what we had pretty much every year. A reason in March we won a lot games even until the end when our talent was clearly less.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Sometime late in his tenure during the post-game interviews, JB said something that completely summed up what his genius was. He said something to the effect that everything he did, he did to win the game in front of him. We all hated his short rotation, how quickly he pulled young talent out of a game, how he didn’t allow the bench to mature in game experience. That’s how I felt.
JB acted to win every game —rotations and developing talent for other games down the line be damned. (Remember how quickly he pulled Christmas as an underclassman, but that worked out alright).
We took for granted a kind of genius that drove many of us crazy, but was genius nonetheless.

With Jimmy on the team and playing as much as he did, I think your premise could be argued easily

 

[Delmar]

With Jimmy on the team and playing as much as he did, I think your premise could be argued easily

I think you got me on this one. The exception and not the rule. Family will do that.

 

[PeteCalvin]

JB never lost the locker room. It was always HIS locker room. You either toed the line or you sat in the doghouse. Another part of his genius was that he understood that you couldn’t motivate every player the same way. He coached each player the way they needed to be coached.

 

[PeteCalvin]

With Jimmy on the team and playing as much as he did, I think your premise could be argued easily

That’s a blip. Jimmy played one season and was his son. He’s not benching his own kid his Sr year.

 

[Brooky03]

JB failed at the end because he stopped recruiting. I would guess at least some of that had to do with what recruiting became and what led so many legends to retire.

JB barely, if at all, fell off with his in-game coaching. The Basketball PhD’s here might disagree, but he adapted to the game on the court just fine and I didn’t realize how much I’d miss his at-times frustrating offense and at-times exploited defense, which both look like masterpieces compared to this.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

That’s a blip. Jimmy played one season and was his son. He’s not benching his own kid his Sr year.

It wasn’t really a blip because he brought jimmy in and made sure we didn’t have anyone better.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

JB failed at the end because he stopped recruiting. I would guess at least some of that had to do with what recruiting became and what led so many legends to retire.

JB barely, if at all, fell off with his in-game coaching. The Basketball PhD’s here might disagree, but he adapted to the game on the court just fine and I didn’t realize how much I’d miss his at-times frustrating offense and at-times exploited defense, which both look like masterpieces compared to this.

He failed to realize that many more kids were able to shoot threes well and didn’t adapt the zone soon enough. And don’t get me started on the expectations of the center contesting the corner three.

 

[SUFan44]

The funny thing is, I think prime JB actually would have thrived in this new climate. One year players, they're all experienced. Not freshmen. Probably could have evaluated portal talent pretty well if he cared to.

 

[Delmar]

The funny thing is, I think prime JB actually would have thrived in this new climate. One year players, they're all experienced. Not freshmen. Probably could have evaluated portal talent pretty well if he cared to.

If he was 35, yes, but not at 70.

 

[Brooky03]

He failed to realize that many more kids were able to shoot threes well and didn’t adapt the zone soon enough. And don’t get me started on the expectations of the center contesting the corner three.

We didn’t lose because teams three’d us to death. We lost because we stopped landing recruits that fit the defense.

JB’s zone and offense depended on dynamic Forwards with the athleticism and size to play the zone well, and SFs who could flat out get buckets (true SFs, not hybrids). We stopped getting those guys. We ended up with one dimensional guys or guys lacking athleticism or size and just making do.

The zone can defend threes. You can play zone against a team with 4 shooters and win without a Herculean effort.

I think the zone is a scapegoat. The NBA has adopted zone more at a time when 3-point shooters are more prevalent than ever. You have to have the guys, though. We don’t have the guys.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

We didn’t lose because teams three’d us to death. We lost because we stopped landing recruits that fit the defense.

JB’s zone and offense depended on dynamic Forwards with the athleticism and size to play the zone well, and SFs who could flat out get buckets (true SFs, not hybrids). We stopped getting those guys. We ended up with one dimensional guys or guys lacking athleticism or size and just making do.

The zone can defend threes. You can play zone against a team with 4 shooters and win without a Herculean effort.

I think the zone is a scapegoat. The NBA has adopted zone more at a time when 3-point shooters are more prevalent than ever. You have to have the guys, though. We don’t have the guys.

Some decent points in there. I knew it was over for JB and the SU zone when he chased off the prototypical PG in Richmond for a 6 foot flat gunner.

 

[Delmar]

JB was good at innovation. Look at the first final 4 with the 3 point shot — Knight, Tark. Pitino, and JB.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

JB was good at innovation. Look at the first final 4 with the 3 point shot — Knight, Tark. Pitino, and JB.

How many decades ago was that?

 

[Delmar]

How many decades ago was that?

I’m old.

 

[SUFan44]

If he was 35, yes, but not at 70.

That's my point.

 

[Brooky03]

Some decent points in there. I knew it was over for JB and the SU zone when he chased off the prototypical PG in Richmond for a 6 foot flat gunner.

We didn’t chase him off. He was mad he couldn’t shoot threes and the kid who looks like he would get picked last started and played marginally more minutes than him.

KR wasn’t the turning point. The year he was here, his stats imply he would not have changed the win total.

 

[Pdpay]

Some decent points in there. I knew it was over for JB and the SU zone when he chased off the prototypical PG in Richmond for a 6 foot flat gunner.

Yep - the same 6 foot flat gunner also went to the final 8 with Clemson. Did Richmond ever make a final 8? By all accounts Kadary was the next coming of Magic Johnson. How isn’t he playing in the NBA? Maybe Autrys career started and ended when he ran off Girard and took in Starling.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

We didn’t chase him off. He was mad he couldn’t shoot threes and the kid who looks like he would get picked last started and played marginally more minutes than him.

KR wasn’t the turning point. The year he was here, his stats imply he would not have changed the win total.

Sure

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Yep - the same 6 foot flat gunner also went to the final 8 with Clemson. Did Richmond ever make a final 8? By all accounts Kadary was the next coming of Magic Johnson. How isn’t he playing in the NBA? Maybe Autrys career started and ended when he ran off Girard and took in Starling.

The problem with Joe wasn’t that he was a bad player. He would have been a decent 2 guard with us but the other guy shared a last name with the coach so he wasn’t coming off the floor.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Yep - the same 6 foot flat gunner also went to the final 8 with Clemson. Did Richmond ever make a final 8? By all accounts Kadary was the next coming of Magic Johnson. How isn’t he playing in the NBA? Maybe Autrys career started and ended when he ran off Girard and took in Starling.

He was used properly by Clemson. And KR is playing in the G league

 

[Ghost]

Yep - the same 6 foot flat gunner also went to the final 8 with Clemson. Did Richmond ever make a final 8? By all accounts Kadary was the next coming of Magic Johnson. How isn’t he playing in the NBA? Maybe Autrys career started and ended when he ran off Girard and took in Starling.

Not really relevant in the context of the zone discussion - the argument more or less centers around "fit" and when the fit shifted from players being adept in the zone to accommodating something other than that.

 

[Cusefan0307]

JB would have had a good team at the end had KR and JG3 been on the team together instead of Jimmy jr. That said the zone is outdated and I’ve seen enough of it.

 

[Chip]

One thing we didn't take for granted was SU being afraid of him.

And that's why we are where we are.