What we took for granted about JB.

[dollarbill44]

With Jimmy on the team and playing as much as he did, I think your premise could be argued easily

Yeah, Cole Swider was the best player on that team, but he had the wrong last name. Jimmy did a lot of nice things,but he should have been the 6th man.

 

[sufan59]

These suckers are finally getting it. I somehow do have a new found appreciation, I always did, but even more now for Boeheim.

 

[CardiacCuse]

JB failed at the end because he stopped recruiting. I would guess at least some of that had to do with what recruiting became and what led so many legends to retire.

JB barely, if at all, fell off with his in-game coaching. The Basketball PhD’s here might disagree, but he adapted to the game on the court just fine and I didn’t realize how much I’d miss his at-times frustrating offense and at-times exploited defense, which both look like masterpieces compared to this.

last few years his schemes aged and became obsolete...but until then, yes

he became sooooo rigid and easy to scheme against for active and prepared coaches...in the 80s and 90s he would switch up schemes and formations at the drop of a hat

late era JB became locked in and dogmatic, refusing to budge, to his great detriment

begging teams to shoot wide open 3s in the steph curry era was suicide

and putting all his eggs into the family basket was also a huge downfall as well

but i agree...for most of JBs tenure, he was the best and wouldnt have wanted any other coach

it was just those last few years...and they really rankled

 

[NYCorange]

JB would have had a good team at the end had KR and JG3 been on the team together instead of Jimmy jr. That said the zone is outdated and I’ve seen enough of it.

The zone is not outdated in any way. If anything it's grown more relevant every year. JB adapted it significantly and his zone concepts and ideas have become extremely influential in the NBA. The defense that the best teams play today often looks a lot more like zone than the man to man of the 90's early 2000s.

 

[tbonezone]

Sometime late in his tenure during the post-game interviews, JB said something that completely summed up what his genius was. He said something to the effect that everything he did, he did to win the game in front of him. We all hated his short rotation, how quickly he pulled young talent out of a game, how he didn’t allow the bench to mature in game experience. That’s how I felt

well there's a difference when you're short term planning versus long term planning. short term is immediate gratification. long term is lasting results.
ant vs. grasshopper. surely one of the first parables we teach kids.

 

[Maxsumm]

His zone would have worked well against this Syracuse team they can’t hit the broad side of the barn from 3

 

[Scooch]

One thing we didn't take for granted was SU being afraid of him.

And that's why we are where we are.

Many years ago…

Me to JW: “What’s it like being Jim Boeheim’s boss?”

JW to me: “Jim’s only boss is Julie”.

 

[hungrychuck]

Sometime late in his tenure during the post-game interviews, JB said something that completely summed up what his genius was. He said something to the effect that everything he did, he did to win the game in front of him. We all hated his short rotation, how quickly he pulled young talent out of a game, how he didn’t allow the bench to mature in game experience. That’s how I felt.
JB acted to win every game —rotations and developing talent for other games down the line be damned. (Remember how quickly he pulled Christmas as an underclassman, but that worked out alright).
We took for granted a kind of genius that drove many of us crazy, but was genius nonetheless.

True genius would have produced a coaching tree.

Instead there’s not even a shrub, with Red perhaps the saddest example.

 

[blust2i3d4]

JB failed at the end because he stopped recruiting. I would guess at least some of that had to do with what recruiting became and what led so many legends to retire.

JB barely, if at all, fell off with his in-game coaching. The Basketball PhD’s here might disagree, but he adapted to the game on the court just fine and I didn’t realize how much I’d miss his at-times frustrating offense and at-times exploited defense, which both look like masterpieces compared to this.

JB failed because in early days there were only fewer games broadcasting on TV. Most schools we played are shocked by zone defense. As more and more games broadcasting on TV, zone defense is no longer a shocker. So in the last 15 years, Syracuse is no longer a constant top 10 team.

 

[Delmar]

True genius would have produced a coaching tree.

Instead there’s not even a shrub, with Red perhaps

You ask too much. I’m damn glad the guy decided to spend forty years winning here. Not his fault that it is hard to replicate.

 

[hungrychuck]

You ask too much. I’m damn glad the guy decided to spend forty years winning here. Not his fault that it is hard to replicate.

Unfortunately, I think the truth is he did much to build the program and a lot to tear it back down.

 

[Orangefan1]

If you could remove Autry now and get Devo for a assistant coach with Boeheim again right now until the end of the year I’d take that trade

 

[Cusefan0307]

The zone is not outdated in any way. If anything it's grown more relevant every year. JB adapted it significantly and his zone concepts and ideas have become extremely influential in the NBA. The defense that the best teams play today often looks a lot more like zone than the man to man of the 90's early 2000s.

No zone. Even with good athletes we would still get routinely carved up by Tony Bennett, Jamie Dixon, and Roy Williams. There were a few coaches we had no chance against and JB made zero adjustments. Predictable.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Yeah, Cole Swider was the best player on that team, but he had the wrong last name. Jimmy did a lot of nice things,but he should have been the 6th man.

It took Cole Swider from being the guy Villanova used as a bench shooter for 3 years to the starting player we saw average 34 minutes a game and .411 from 3 for us. Cole was a starter all season, Jimmy didn’t impact his minutes at all.

 

[PhatOrange]

No zone. Even with good athletes we would still get routinely carved up by Tony Bennett, Jamie Dixon, and Roy Williams. There were a few coaches we had no chance against and JB made zero adjustments. Predictable.

All 3 of those coaches got carved up playing man to man to.

 

[PhatOrange]

Have to laugh about the negative recruiting comments at the end of his career since Autry was on staff and the assistants do the bulk of the heavy lifting on the recruiting trail.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Have to laugh about the negative recruiting comments at the end of his career since Autry was on staff and the assistants do the bulk of the heavy lifting on the recruiting trail.

They weren’t allowed the final decisions though.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Some people let the end of JB’s career define his entire career and it makes me sick. We are all here as die hard fans entirely because of JB. Nobody is here without him. One of the greatest coaches of all time.

 

[grepal]

His zone would have worked well against this Syracuse team they can’t hit the broad side of the barn from 3

yeah, but leaving Freeman open at the foul line would have killed us.

 

[cusefan88]

Some people let the end of JB’s career define his entire career and it makes me sick. We are all here as die hard fans entirely because of JB. Nobody is here without him. One of the greatest coaches of all time.

100% it's just difficult to reconcile that the fans standard was set by him and at the same time he also set in motion the events that bring us to the current issues.

 

[Cheriehoop]

The problem with Joe wasn’t that he was a bad player. He would have been a decent 2 guard with us but the other guy shared a last name with the coach so he wasn’t coming off the floor.

That other guy who shared a name with the coach was a very good player too. The issue was that Joe and Buddy who were both excellent shooters having the same type of offensive game but also had comparable defensive issues. Unfortunately it was coupled with no real point guard to create for them nor a defensive big man to stymie penetration and have a dribble drive game. Sadly Joe nor Buddy were point guards. The one point guard we had for a season unfortunately wanted to join Joe and Buddy and shoot 3’s despite shooting being his absolute weak point. If Kadary could have shot the ball, he would have been in the NBA for a few years instead of 5 years in college under 3 different coaches and now in the g league. Sadly we lost Quincy who also wanted to become a 3 point shooter that we had had plenty of too. Every player wanted to be a 3 point shooter. Roster construction was the issue.

 

[Brooky03]

JB failed because in early days there were only fewer games broadcasting on TV. Most schools we played are shocked by zone defense. As more and more games broadcasting on TV, zone defense is no longer a shocker. So in the last 15 years, Syracuse is no longer a constant top 10 team.

I don’t think any colleges were relying on broadcasts to scout teams and they weren’t shocked by the zone. Fwiw, Syracuse was probably one of the most widely broadcast programs for a while in the early 00’s.

All teams have a zone offense. We were just big enough and athletic enough usually that it didn’t matter what their zone offense was. Notre Dame would put 7 shooters on the floor and lose by 20.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

That other guy who shared a name with the coach was a very good player too. The issue was that Joe and Buddy who were both excellent shooters having the same type of offensive game but also had comparable defensive issues. Unfortunately it was coupled with no real point guard to create for them nor a defensive big man to stymie penetration. Sadly Joe nor Buddy were point guards. The one point guard we had for a season unfortunately wanted to join Joe and Buddy and shoot 3’s despite shooting being his absolute weak point. If Kadary could have shot the ball, he would have been in the NBA for a few years instead of 5 years in college under 3 different coaches and now in the g league. Roster construction was the issue.

Completely agree. I also feel that Kadary could have been nurtured more than he was because he was so much better at defense. Which before Joe and Buddy were the most important requirement for JB.

 

[PhatOrange]

They weren’t allowed the final decisions though.

you're saying JB regularly took bad players over good players? That's funny.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

you're saying JB regularly took bad players over good players? That's funny.

That’s not what I said at all. I’m saying JB wanted specific guys for his system, not the best players available. Kevin Huerter immediately comes to mind. How long has he been in the NBA now?