What we took for granted about JB.

[Doc5120]

He failed to realize that many more kids were able to shoot threes well and didn’t adapt the zone soon enough. And don’t get me started on the expectations of the center contesting the corner three.

You beat me to this. It was absolutely maddening. What we're seeing with Autry is almost as difficult to watch as the last 7-8 years of JB.

 

[2B20Again]

True genius would have produced a coaching tree.

Instead there’s not even a shrub, with Red perhaps the saddest example.

. What about Pitino?

 

[phreddie]

True genius would have produced a coaching tree.

Instead there’s not even a shrub, with Red perhaps the saddest example.

Yeah, screww 1,100+ wins, 5 final 4s, and a natty! What we really want is a coaching tree!

 

[Cuse_NYC]

One thing we didn't take for granted was SU being afraid of him.

And that's why we are where we are.

They must be petrified of Autry

 

[orangecuse]

Sometime late in his tenure during the post-game interviews, JB said something that completely summed up what his genius was. He said something to the effect that everything he did, he did to win the game in front of him. We all hated his short rotation, how quickly he pulled young talent out of a game, how he didn’t allow the bench to mature in game experience. That’s how I felt.
JB acted to win every game —rotations and developing talent for other games down the line be damned. (Remember how quickly he pulled Christmas as an underclassman, but that worked out alright).
We took for granted a kind of genius that drove many of us crazy, but was genius nonetheless.

Completely agree with "playing to win the game" at all costs. It's after all the most critical stat in the big time arena. I think those, including myself over the years, that were, let's just say, frustrated with his short bench was due to the broader picture. Meaning, come tourney time, etc. having guys off the bench that can contribute at least a little, vs. being such a minus due to limited exposure during the season, especially, if foul trouble arose, etc.

However, I wouldn't give JB the "genius" label for using his short bench. Primarily, due to the fact that he would repeatedly defend himself by routinely saying how many other successful coaches used a short 6-7 type rotation, etc. Therefore, implying its not "just me" or some type of unique concept, etc.. Additionally, he would comment about all of the media timeouts, etc. in addition to the ones the teams get being plenty of rest for players, etc., especially, youthful/athletic players of this caliber. Just my opinion...

 

[Chip]

They must be petrified of Autry

They're not. But they appeared afraid of the optics of dumping him after 2 seasons.

It will all be over soon.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

They're not. But they appeared afraid of the optics of dumping him after 2 seasons.

It will all be over soon.

Every day now is one too many.

 

[Brian Orange]

This thread was inevitable. Anyway one aspect of the Boeheim years I miss was that on any given night we could pull an upset. He was such a good coach (and also the zone) anything was possible no matter the opponent

 

[23Zone]

Love him or loathe him, JB had a system and was an expert at diagnosing what the other team was doing and then making adjustments throughout the game.

Autry, on the other hand, has absolutely no idea what he's doing, has no system, and is a passive spectator, just completely helpless.

Next year with our new coach we can throw in the existing scrabble pieces, and portal together a brand new team, starting with an athletic and explosive point guard. I'm so sick of watching horrendous back court play.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Coaching tree as a concept is just silly. I don't think Boeheim deserves any credit for Rick Pitino being an elite coach just because he was his assistant for a few years. I don't think Bob Knight deserves credit for Coach K since he played under him and was his assistant for a year. Guys like that would rise to the top eventually. Some elite coaches have an impressive list and some dont. Pitinos is pretty darn impressive. A guy like Roy Williams, not so much. Doesn't make me think any less of Roy Williams as a coach.

 

[PhatOrange]

That’s not what I said at all. I’m saying JB wanted specific guys for his system, not the best players available. Kevin Huerter immediately comes to mind. How long has he been in the NBA now?

Assuming that's a fact it doesn't mean much. Most teams missed on the kid, including UConn. Coaches recruit to their systems; all coaches miss on players good and bad.

 

[Cheriehoop]

That’s not what I said at all. I’m saying JB wanted specific guys for his system, not the best players available. Kevin Huerter immediately comes to mind. How long has he been in the NBA now?

True but in 2016, Huerter’s year, we were under an 8 scholarship sanction from the 2015-2016 through 2018-2019 seasons for that crazy 8 year NCAA investigation. It effected our recruiting in that period and restricted signing recruits we were interested in. If I recall correctly, we wanted Huerter to wait a year, go prep or something which he didn’t want to do. Hop left during this timeline also. I think many people forget the timing and how it affected the end of JB’s coaching career too. Covid started the following year (2020-2021) after sanctions ended - tough stretch. Hope I recall correctly.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Sometime late in his tenure during the post-game interviews, JB said something that completely summed up what his genius was. He said something to the effect that everything he did, he did to win the game in front of him. We all hated his short rotation, how quickly he pulled young talent out of a game, how he didn’t allow the bench to mature in game experience. That’s how I felt.
JB acted to win every game —rotations and developing talent for other games down the line be damned. (Remember how quickly he pulled Christmas as an underclassman, but that worked out alright).
We took for granted a kind of genius that drove many of us crazy, but was genius nonetheless.

The puke emoji would have perfectly encapsulated my response to this post.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Sometime late in his tenure during the post-game interviews, JB said something that completely summed up what his genius was. He said something to the effect that everything he did, he did to win the game in front of him. We all hated his short rotation, how quickly he pulled young talent out of a game, how he didn’t allow the bench to mature in game experience. That’s how I felt.
JB acted to win every game —rotations and developing talent for other games down the line be damned. (Remember how quickly he pulled Christmas as an underclassman, but that worked out alright).
We took for granted a kind of genius that drove many of us crazy, but was genius nonetheless.

Excellent post. What I also loved most about JB was how relaxed he would stay, no matter the situation. We may have just made a major turnover up 1 at the end of the game, and the team would come into the huddle and JB would make the hand motion, like calm down, it’s fine… here’s what we need to do. Players are a reflection of the coach. When Autry is pouting or slamming the r scorer’s table, they see that…

 

[hungrychuck]

. What about Pitino?

Two seasons at age 24ish?

Pitino was going to be a rock star no matter where he caught on at that age.

I don’t consider Nick Saban part of the Frank Maloney coaching tree either.

 

[tbonezone]

Excellent post. What I also loved most about JB was how relaxed he would stay, no matter the situation. We may have just made a major turnover up 1 at the end of the game, and the team would come into the huddle and JB would make the hand motion, like calm down, it’s fine… here’s what we need to do. Players are a reflection of the coach. When Autry is pouting or slamming the r scorer’s table, they see that…

you want him to calm down and start deep sinus spelunking ???

 

[Cuse_NYC]

you want him to calm down and start deep sinus spelunking ???

if that’s what it takes

 

[swish7]

It was a mistake to force him out, just like it was a mistake to force Pasqualoni out.

Squandered his legacy by not letting him leave on his own terms. Heck, he'd be leaving about now anyway.

Gained nothing with Autry.

 

[swish7]

That other guy who shared a name with the coach was a very good player too. The issue was that Joe and Buddy who were both excellent shooters having the same type of offensive game but also had comparable defensive issues. Unfortunately it was coupled with no real point guard to create for them nor a defensive big man to stymie penetration and have a dribble drive game. Sadly Joe nor Buddy were point guards. The one point guard we had for a season unfortunately wanted to join Joe and Buddy and shoot 3’s despite shooting being his absolute weak point. If Kadary could have shot the ball, he would have been in the NBA for a few years instead of 5 years in college under 3 different coaches and now in the g league. Sadly we lost Quincy who also wanted to become a 3 point shooter that we had had plenty of too. Every player wanted to be a 3 point shooter. Roster construction was the issue.

Yep

 

[AZOrange]

JB never lost the locker room. It was always HIS locker room. You either toed the line or you sat in the doghouse. Another part of his genius was that he understood that you couldn’t motivate every player the same way. He coached each player the way they needed to be coached.

I agree he coached kids differently but not always the way they needed to be coached

 

[longtimefan]

That’s not what I said at all. I’m saying JB wanted specific guys for his system, not the best players available. Kevin Huerter immediately comes to mind. How long has he been in the NBA now?

We did not have a scholarship for Huerter due to the sanctions. The irony is that the NCAA restored a scholarship--too late, as Huerter had already signed with Maryland.

He did play once in the Dome. Scorched the Orange, but we got the win anyway.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

We did not have a scholarship for Huerter due to the sanctions. The irony is that the NCAA restored a scholarship--too late, as Huerter had already signed with Maryland.

He did play once in the Dome. Scorched the Orange, but we got the win anyway.

Who got the scholarship that should have gone to Kevin?

 

[longtimefan]

Who got the scholarship that should have gone to Kevin?

Battle, Thompson, and Moyer were in that class. But, I don't remember the timeline--when they got verbals from each of them. And maybe they misjudged Huerter's willingness to do a year in prep school.
That team had some offense, though, with Lydon, White, and Gillon.

 

[hungrychuck]

It was a mistake to force him out, just like it was a mistake to force Pasqualoni out.

Squandered his legacy by not letting him leave on his own terms. Heck, he'd be leaving about now anyway.

Gained nothing with Autry.

Love you Swish, but I think this is a bad take.

Both deserved firing.

The replacements were horrific in both cases.

But that’s a completely different issue.

 

[OrangeFoo]

We took for granted that a HoF, all time great coach would be standing on sidelines carrying us through the darkest of winter days into the spring. As many of said on this board... they used to plan their entire calendar around Syracuse hoops games. At peak JB anything was possible, we could beat anyone on any given night. And it was FUN... thunder dunks, fast paced offense, stifling defense, amazing players showing off their athleticism, all of it.

I never went into a game thinking we would lose (unless it was Pitt) and that's the feeling I would love to get back to. Winter's are very dull without JB and Cuse hoops.