What went down.

[SWC75]

I called into Bud and the Manchild, (Bud Poliquin, long time Post Standard columnist and Jim Lersch, who has been a radio guy covering sports in Syracuse for years), to ask them to fill in some of the blanks about the end of the Paul Pasqualoni Era at SU.

I've heard so many things:
-that they wanted to fire Pasqualoni in 2003 after the Rutgers game but the Notre Dame where Walter Reyes scored the 5TDs saved him.
- Crouthamel wanted to fired him then but was overuled.
- Crouthamel would never have fired him. He said no to the people above him.
- The issue was discussed by fans and the media before he was fired but it never came up in the SU power structure until the Champ Sports Bowl.
- Gross wanted to get rid of him when he showed up because a new guy wants his own people in: he couldn't fire Boeheim so bye-bye Pasqualoni.
- Gross didn't want to get rid of him but was forced to after the Champs Sports Bowl by the higher-ups against his will.
- Ray Rice would have come here is we'd kept Coach P
- Ray Rice had already decided not to come here because Schiano was in his ear. The firing didn't matter.
etc. etc.

So I decided to ask Bud and Jim what they know about this. They were pretty much in agreement:
- Crouthamel could be seen in the press box fuming and worse when things went poorly.
- But he never respect for or faith in Coach P and would never have fired him.
- There were people above Crouthamel that wanted out after the Rutgers game in '03 but Jake refused to fire him and the result was the "vote of confidence" which came before the Notre Dame game and when we blew out the Irish, the issue was dead- for the time.
- The book-end blow-outs of 2004, (0-51 to Purdue in the first game and the 14-51 loss to Gerogia Tech, a team averaging 19 points a game) brought the issue back, stronger than ever.
- Gross did not want to fire anybody when he came here. He wanted to observe for a year and thren make his decisions.
- There was another "vote of confidence" by Chancellor Cantor a few weeks before the firing.
- "Votes of confidence" are pretty meaningless. If they mean anything it is that the guy's in trouble.
- Cantor issuing one and then P getting fired was "not a good start" for her.
- Gross was told at half time of the Champs Sports Bowl to get rid of the guy and announce the firing as soon as he got back to Syracuse.
- Firing a coach after a bowl game is stupid. Not only are you in a bowl game but you are too alte in the season to put together a good staff or have a good recruiting year. Most of the coaches on that staff had never done the jobs they were given before.
- Losing Coach P did cost us Ray Rice.

Unless someone with inside knowledge has an issue with any of this, that account is what I'll file in my memory banks about this subject. Whatever you think of Bud and Jim or their show, I think they probably have a pretty good idea what went down.

 

[orangenirvana]

Sounds about right. Gross wanted to keep him another year but was told no by the board.

Dopes should have waited.

 

[FAL]

" Gross was told at half time of the Champs Sports Bowl to get rid of the guy and announce the firing as soon as he got back to Syracuse."

I find that extremely interesting. Many people have been all over Gross for the way he supposedly canned P. He was certainly handed the shitty end of the stick by being forced to do this when, quite frankly, observing P's actions for another year seemed quite fair and reasonable. Hell of a way for a new AD to start! It may be all hearsay, but it certainly has a ring of truth to it. Thank you again for sharing those interesting tidbits!

 

[oldpinepoint]

Gross was just the messenger

 

[MadNY3]

" Gross was told at half time of the Champs Sports Bowl to get rid of the guy and announce the firing as soon as he got back to Syracuse."

I find that extremely interesting. Many people have been all over Gross for the way he supposedly canned P. He was certainly handed the shitty end of the stick by being forced to do this when, quite frankly, observing P's actions for another year seemed quite fair and reasonable. Hell of a way for a new AD to start! It may be all hearsay, but it certainly has a ring of truth to it. Thank you again for sharing those interesting tidbits!

Gross had very little with firing P other than he had to do it. Not his decision.

 

[RMH44]

Sounds about right. Gross wanted to keep him another year but was told no by the board.

Dopes should have waited.

Wow, we have more power than I thought.

 

[TheRoyalIveyFund]

I don't post much on the football-side, mainly read, as it's secondary to hoops to me. However, I remember halftime of that Champ's Bowl vividly. We had about 100 posts all within 15 seconds of each other that had either gone, fired, out of here, etc. It was so rare to see an AD be that honest that he was about to fire a coach with a game being played.

 

[CusefanATL]

I don't post much on the football-side, mainly read, as it's secondary to hoops to me. However, I remember halftime of that Champ's Bowl vividly. We had about 100 posts all within 15 seconds of each other that had either gone, fired, out of here, etc. It was so rare to see an AD be that honest that he was about to fire a coach with a game being played.

was literally typing the same thing.

if you saw that halftime chat, there is no doubt that the doc made the decision to fire him.

 

[Scooch]

As awesome as that day in Chestnut Hill may have been, I think beating BC may have set the program back.

If we lose to BC and don't make a bowl we would have been forced to make a decision on Pasqualoni in early December. One way or another that would have been better. We either would have retained him, and then there would have been no bowl game to make the BOT change their minds. Or we would have canned him and gotten a much better pick of available coaches.

So, here's to the outhouse on the hill, BC sucks and always will.

 

[rrlbees]

was literally typing the same thing.

if you saw that halftime chat, there is no doubt that the doc made the decision to fire him.

except the doc didn't make the decision. cantor did and she told doc to do it. she made that proclamation at halftime in the su box with a few on this board right there. news traveled at the speed of light.

 

[Millhouse]

was literally typing the same thing.

if you saw that halftime chat, there is no doubt that the doc made the decision to fire him.

the reason everyone knew he was gone was because they interviewed gross on camera during halftime or so and asked him point blank if he was keeping him and he wouldn't answer. it was obvious to anyone watching the broadcast. but that doesn't mean that gross made that decision

 

[creeker46]

i cant remmeber, but who were the candidates after coach P, i remember after robinson, we were supposedly signed sealed and delivered with chip kelly but oregon said nah, we're gonna make him our head coach in waiting...

 

[Scooch]

i cant remmeber, but who were the candidates after coach P, i remember after robinson, we were supposedly signed sealed and delivered with chip kelly but oregon said nah, we're gonna make him our head coach in waiting...

No, we asked if we could talk to Kelly. Kinda different.

Wasn't Bo Pelini a candidate?

 

[orangeinjersey]

As awesome as that day in Chestnut Hill may have been, I think beating BC may have set the program back.

If we lose to BC and don't make a bowl we would have been forced to make a decision on Pasqualoni in early December. One way or another that would have been better. We either would have retained him, and then there would have been no bowl game to make the BOT change their minds. Or we would have canned him and gotten a much better pick of available coaches.

So, here's to the outhouse on the hill, BC sucks and always will.

Interesting hypothesis. Just for kicks, I just went back and looked at NCAA Football coaching changes that year. Its not certain that we would have gotten one of these guys, but it makes for good conversation. That being said, who would you have liked to see on our sideline from this list.

TEAM 2004 COACH W-L 2005 COACH W-L
BYU Gary Crowton 5-6 Bronco Mendenhall 6-6
East Carolina John Thompson 2-9 Skip Holtz 5-6
Florida Ron Zook 7-5 Urban Meyer 9-3
Illinois Ron Turner 3-8 Ron Zook 2-9
Indiana Gerry DiNardo 3-8 Terry Hoeppner 4-7
LSU Nick Saban 9-3 Les Miles 11-2
Marshall Bob Pruett 6-6 Mark Snyder 4-7
Miami (Ohio) Terry Hoeppner 8-5 Shane Montgomery 7-4
Mississippi David Cutcliffe 4-7 Ed Orgeron 3-8
Nev.-Las Vegas John Robinson 2-9 Mike Sanford 2-9
New Mexico St. Tony Samuel 5-6 Hal Mumme 0-12
Notre Dame Ty Willingham 6-6 Charlie Weis 9-3
Ohio Brian Knorr 4-7 Frank Solich 4-7
Oklahoma State Les Miles 7-5 Mike Gundy 4-7
Pittsburgh Walt Harris 8-4 Dave Wannstedt 5-6
San Jose State Fitz Hill 2-9 Dick Tomey 3-8
South Carolina Lou Holtz 6-5 Steve Spurrier 7-5
Stanford Buddy Teevens 4-7 Walt Harris 5-6
Syracuse Paul Pasqualoni 6-6 Greg Robinson 1-10
Utah Urban Meyer 12-0 Kyle Whittingham 7-5
Utah State Mick Dennnehy 3-8 Brent Guy 3-8
Washington Keith Gilbertson 1-10 Ty Willingham 2-9
Western Michigan Gary Darnell 1-10 Bill Cubit 7-4​

You have to say that SU would have been a top 5 job that winter right? Who do you think we could have persuaded to take our coaching job?

 

[PeteCalvin]

Sounds about right. Gross wanted to keep him another year but was told no by the board.

Dopes should have waited.

Those dopes cost us Ray Rice. They clearly made a tunnel vision decision based on fannies in the seats. Nothing more. And that decision forced another bad decision by Dr. Gross, which resulted in GRob without Ray Rice. The whole thing was a mess. We're past that now and should move on. We've got new problems to deal with.

 

[elimunelson]

As awesome as that day in Chestnut Hill may have been, I think beating BC may have set the program back.

If we lose to BC and don't make a bowl we would have been forced to make a decision on Pasqualoni in early December. One way or another that would have been better. We either would have retained him, and then there would have been no bowl game to make the BOT change their minds. Or we would have canned him and gotten a much better pick of available coaches.

So, here's to the outhouse on the hill, BC sucks and always will.

my favorite Syracuse sports memory is that game so i disagree selfishly. I was at the 96 sweet sixteen/elite 8, gator bowl, liberty bowl, et al but this one was so special b/c it was in my backyard, the sombreros were out and the hurt was laid down. I got in there late and missed the first TD b/c i was drunk in Mariannes with all my buddies from Boston. Couldn't have been more proud to be a Boston native/Orangemen that day. I peacocked off that campus like i was a WWF wrestler post game.

We stayed till the end and met up with other BC buddies after. They were shellshocked. At that point, i think there was still some scenario where we could have gone to the BCS game since USF had to still play a week later?

 

[rrlbees]

i cant remmeber, but who were the candidates after coach P, i remember after robinson, we were supposedly signed sealed and delivered with chip kelly but oregon said nah, we're gonna make him our head coach in waiting...

4 candidates, all fitting the mold tgd wanted which was an nfl defensive guy, just like pete carroll at usc. the 4 were grob, tim lewis, donnie henderson and jerry gray. final 2 were grob and gray.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

As awesome as that day in Chestnut Hill may have been, I think beating BC may have set the program back.

If we lose to BC and don't make a bowl we would have been forced to make a decision on Pasqualoni in early December. One way or another that would have been better. We either would have retained him, and then there would have been no bowl game to make the BOT change their minds. Or we would have canned him and gotten a much better pick of available coaches.

So, here's to the outhouse on the hill, BC sucks and always will.

Diamond Ferri screwed us.

 

[Orangello]

my favorite Syracuse sports memory is that game so i disagree selfishly. I was at the 96 sweet sixteen/elite 8, gator bowl, liberty bowl, et al but this one was so special b/c it was in my backyard, the sombreros were out and the hurt was laid down. I got in there late and missed the first TD b/c i was drunk in Mariannes with all my buddies from Boston. Couldn't have been more proud to be a Boston native/Orangemen that day. I peacocked off that campus like i was a WWF wrestler post game.

We stayed till the end and met up with other BC buddies after. They were shellshocked. At that point, i think there was still some scenario where we could have gone to the BCS game since USF had to still play a week later?

Have to agree with this. Seeing the Super Fans crying on TV was priceless.

 

[creeker46]

4 candidates, all fitting the mold tgd wanted which was an nfl defensive guy, just like pete carroll at usc. the 4 were grob, tim lewis, donnie henderson and jerry gray. final 2 were grob and gray.

what a list of juggernauts...so what you are saying is maybe we should have kept P for 1 more year

 

[OrangeXtreme]

We stayed till the end and met up with other BC buddies after. They were shellshocked. At that point, i think there was still some scenario where we could have gone to the BCS game since USF had to still play a week later?

USF, Cinci, and Louisville didn't join the BE until a year later.

 

[Scooch]

Have to agree with this. Seeing the Super Fans crying on TV was priceless.

Yeah, see, I'd give BC a BCS berth to avoid 4 years of utter for us.

 

[kirbivore]

As awesome as that day in Chestnut Hill may have been, I think beating BC may have set the program back.

If we lose to BC and don't make a bowl we would have been forced to make a decision on Pasqualoni in early December. One way or another that would have been better. We either would have retained him, and then there would have been no bowl game to make the BOT change their minds. Or we would have canned him and gotten a much better pick of available coaches.

So, here's to the outhouse on the hill, BC sucks and always will.

Didn't that South Carolina/Clemson brawl open up a bowl spot that year as well?

 

[OttosBestFriend]

Interesting hypothesis. Just for kicks, I just went back and looked at NCAA Football coaching changes that year. Its not certain that we would have gotten one of these guys, but it makes for good conversation. That being said, who would you have liked to see on our sideline from this list.

TEAM 2004 COACH W-L 2005 COACH W-L​

BYU Gary Crowton 5-6 Bronco Mendenhall 6-6​

East Carolina John Thompson 2-9 Skip Holtz 5-6​

Florida Ron Zook 7-5 Urban Meyer 9-3​

Illinois Ron Turner 3-8 Ron Zook 2-9​

Indiana Gerry DiNardo 3-8 Terry Hoeppner 4-7​

LSU Nick Saban 9-3 Les Miles 11-2​

Marshall Bob Pruett 6-6 Mark Snyder 4-7​

Miami (Ohio) Terry Hoeppner 8-5 Shane Montgomery 7-4​

Mississippi David Cutcliffe 4-7 Ed Orgeron 3-8​

Nev.-Las Vegas John Robinson 2-9 Mike Sanford 2-9​

New Mexico St. Tony Samuel 5-6 Hal Mumme 0-12​

Notre Dame Ty Willingham 6-6 Charlie Weis 9-3​

Ohio Brian Knorr 4-7 Frank Solich 4-7​

Oklahoma State Les Miles 7-5 Mike Gundy 4-7​

Pittsburgh Walt Harris 8-4 Dave Wannstedt 5-6​

San Jose State Fitz Hill 2-9 Dick Tomey 3-8​

South Carolina Lou Holtz 6-5 Steve Spurrier 7-5​

Stanford Buddy Teevens 4-7 Walt Harris 5-6​

Syracuse Paul Pasqualoni 6-6 Greg Robinson 1-10​

Utah Urban Meyer 12-0 Kyle Whittingham 7-5​

Utah State Mick Dennnehy 3-8 Brent Guy 3-8​

Washington Keith Gilbertson 1-10 Ty Willingham 2-9​

Western Michigan Gary Darnell 1-10 Bill Cubit 7-4​

You have to say that SU would have been a top 5 job that winter right? Who do you think we could have persuaded to take our coaching job?

Florida, LSU, South Carolina, Illinois, Stanford, Washington were, IMO, better jobs than 'Cuse in 2004 (Facilities, Stadium, Conference, Fan Base, and most importantly, Money/Salary)

Pitt, Ole Miss, and Oklahoma State would've been considered similar jobs, IMO.