What worries me

[MadNY3]

Is reading snippets like this from a P-S article:

The Bearcats blocked a second-quarter try from 25 yards out. It was the second blocked field goal try in four games for SU, who also had one blocked at Rutgers on Oct. 13.

“We drilled it all week,” Marrone said. “I knew exactly what was coming. We worked on it all week and we couldn’t execute it.”

We can't execute - again - a sub-30 yard FG? Add the KO fumbles and punting follies, it worries me when the boss tells employees on SPECIAL TEAMS what to do...and they can't.

That is not a talent issue. It's ultimately on the coaching staff to get the RIGHT people to execute, from a former Frosh All-America K to a KR to not barf up the ball to an OL...

Frustrating. Along with the constant penalties, this stuff is far more frustrating than any refereeing issues we can point to. Self-induced stuff...Just. Kills.

 

[Rocco]

It is nothing short of OVERTHINKING and OVERANALYZING. Just play football, block the man in front of you and let the snapper, holder and kicker just do exactly that. Highly frustrating. 99% of teams don't deal with the extent of these psychological ST's issues.

Snap. Block & Place the ball. Kick. 3 points.

Boom.

 

[OrangePA]

Is reading snippets like this from a P-S article:



We can't execute - again - a sub-30 yard FG? Add the KO fumbles and punting follies, it worries me when the boss tells employees on SPECIAL TEAMS what to do...and they can't.

That is not a talent issue. It's ultimately on the coaching staff to get the RIGHT people to execute, from a former Frosh All-America K to a KR to not barf up the ball to an OL...

Frustrating. Along with the constant penalties, this stuff is far more frustrating than any refereeing issues we can point to. Self-induced stuff...Just. Kills.

So the coaches see the issue- they devote time and attention to it.

And the players can't execute the plan.

And you think it's coaching.

I think it's players not executing.

Fisher is a .poor punter. Krautman has the yips and someone on the OL blew an assignment..

Kobena has poor hands. West drops too many passes and so does Jerome Smith.

We need a home run hitter - a guy who can score from anywhere on the field. We need to continue to improve our talent level.

 

[rrlbees]

So the coaches see the issue- they devote time and attention to it.

And the players can't execute the plan.

And you think it's coaching.

I think it's players not executing.

Fisher is a .poor punter. Krautman has the yips and someone on the OL blew an assignment..

Kobena has poor hands. West drops too many passes and so does Jerome Smith.

We need a home run hitter - a guy who can score from anywhere on the field. We need to continue to improve our talent level.

Must be we are recruiting the wrong players then. Staff has to be responsible for sometimg. Can't keep blaming everyone else.

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[Orangello]

We need a home run hitter - a guy who can score from anywhere on the field. We need to continue to improve our talent level.

His name is BroylD. He sits on the bench most of the time.

 

[orange79]

So the coaches see the issue- they devote time and attention to it.

And the players can't execute the plan.

And you think it's coaching.

I think it's players not executing.

Fisher is a .poor punter. Krautman has the yips and someone on the OL blew an assignment..

Kobena has poor hands. West drops too many passes and so does Jerome Smith.

We need a home run hitter - a guy who can score from anywhere on the field. We need to continue to improve our talent level.

It's always the players. Is it ever the coach's fault? Ever?

 

[Dcuse]

Must be we are recruiting the wrong players then. Staff has to be responsible for sometimg. Can't keep blaming everyone else.


I tend to see things black and white too. I see a guy miss a short field goal,drop an easy td pass, drop an easier pick 6- I tend to blame them and not some coach on the sideline.

 

[Scooch]

So the coaches see the issue- they devote time and attention to it.

And the players can't execute the plan.

And you think it's coaching.

I think it's players not executing.

Fisher is a .poor punter. Krautman has the yips and someone on the OL blew an assignment..

Kobena has poor hands. West drops too many passes and so does Jerome Smith.

We need a home run hitter - a guy who can score from anywhere on the field. We need to continue to improve our talent level.

Stick to ST, don't bring up Smith or HR hitters across the field. Mad is right on this. Our specials are not significantly less talented than most of the teams we're playing. We just play incredibly stupid. ST is sooooo much about coaching. In fact you could argue it's the one area where coaching matters most because as long as there's no glaring talent deficiency it's entirely about scheme, fundamentals, assignments and smart play.

It's also about recognizing how a team is playing. I don't blame Marrone for letting Krautman kick a 30 yarder in the first half. I absolutely blame him for trying a 42 yarder after the 30 yarder was blocked, in the rain and wind, down 11, in the 4th quarter.

 

[MadNY3]

So the coaches see the issue- they devote time and attention to it.

And the players can't execute the plan.

And you think it's coaching.

I think it's players not executing.

Fisher is a .poor punter. Krautman has the yips and someone on the OL blew an assignment..

Kobena has poor hands. West drops too many passes and so does Jerome Smith.

We need a home run hitter - a guy who can score from anywhere on the field. We need to continue to improve our talent level.

Yes, I think the plethora of special teams gaffes is on the coaches...especially if Kobena REALLY does have poor hands and Fisher is a "poor" punter. How the **k are those things NOT on the special teams/head coach for putting them in those positions when, I suspect, we have options?

Home run hitter: save for a different argument.

In sum: I blame our special teams performance and vast penalities on coaching, much the way I credit them for offensive stat sheet stuffing success.

 

[rrlbees]

Then we are recruiting the wrong players. Or coaching the skills wrong. The mistakes are an epidemic. Its not 1-2 players, it is many players and some weeks, not even the same ones.

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[OrangePA]

Yes, I think the plethora of special teams gaffes is on the coaches...especially if Kobena REALLY does have poor hands and Fisher is a "poor" punter. How the **k are those things NOT on the special teams/head coach for putting them in those positions when, I suspect, we have options?

Home run hitter: save for a different argument.

In sum: I blame our special teams performance and vast penalities on coaching, much the way I credit them for offensive stat sheet stuffing success.

Did it occur to you that Kobena and Krautman and Fisher are the best we have right now?

Penalties in football can be so arbitrary and picayune or otherwise incalculable that I don't attribute the calls to the coaches.

Right now Cincy is better- we are getting close but Cincy is better. And that's why we lost- they made mistakes and they committed penalties but they are better.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Stick to ST, don't bring up Smith or HR hitters across the field. Mad is right on this. Our specials are not significantly less talented than most of the teams we're playing. We just play incredibly stupid. ST is sooooo much about coaching. In fact you could argue it's the one area where coaching matters most because as long as there's no glaring talent deficiency it's entirely about scheme, fundamentals, assignments and smart play.

It's also about recognizing how a team is playing. I don't blame Marrone for letting Krautman kick a 30 yarder in the first half. I absolutely blame him for trying a 42 yarder after the 30 yarder was blocked, in the rain and wind, down 11, in the 4th quarter.

Did anyone here actually think he was making that? I didn't.

 

[kingottoiii]

What worries me is that Marrone did not know the score of the game on the 4th down decision when Krautman missed the FG. He said the score was 9 and wanted to get it down to 6. It was an 11 point game. He said that he wanted to get it down to one possession and technically 8 points is one possession but can you know the damn score? In addition what he did vs Cincy is the exact opposite of what he did vs USF. Here are the situations:

vs USF
We took over with 10:43 left and eventually had a 4th and 1 from the USF 26 yard line down 9 points. He decided to go for it and we got a TD a few plays later leaving 7:17 on the clock.

vs Cincy
We took over with 14:22 left and eventually had a 4th and 3 at the Cincy 25 yard line down 11 points. He decided to kick the FG which was missed leaving 12:11 on the clock.

They are pretty similar situations. There were 5 mins more in the Cincy situation so there is more time to catch up. But IMO when you do it vs USF and then face this situation with a FG kicker who hasn't been making kicks and it is raining, I cannot see why in the hell you kick it.

 

[MadNY3]

Did it occur to you that Kobena and Krautman and Fisher are the best we have right now?

Right now Cincy is better- we are getting close but Cincy is better. And that's why we lost- they made mistakes and they committed penalties but they are better.

It occurred to me that Krautman used to be a frosh All-American under a different special teams coach.

It occurred to me that we should have a better P and KO returner in year four of a program destined for the ACC , especially given the realities of those positions. Heck, they were better under the inept Robinson.

Cincy is better. No question. But our special teams SHOULD be better and should have been the first unit to show incredible pride and performance of the three units. And yet, they show prominent regression.

That is frustrating. And really not something one should point the traditional "we need more money/better facilities" reasoning at. Marrone has failed at special teams. Period. I can not see why this has not occurred to you as yet.

 

[rrlbees]

Did it occur to you that Kobena and Krautman and Fisher are the best we have right now.

Why?

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[OttoinGrotto]

Is it possible that Marrone and staff are awful at teaching special teams?

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[anglerman]

What worries me is that Marrone did not know the score of the game on the 4th down decision when Krautman missed the FG. He said the score was 9 and wanted to get it down to 6. It was an 11 point game. He said that he wanted to get it down to one possession and technically 8 points is one possession but can you know the damn score? In addition what he did vs Cincy is the exact opposite of what he did vs USF. Here are the situations:


4th and 1 vs 4th and 3 are not the same situations. I'm also sure that the coach knew what the score was, people do misspeak on occasion.
vs USF
We took over with 10:43 left and eventually had a 4th and 1 from the USF 26 yard line down 9 points. He decided to go for it and we got a TD a few plays later leaving 7:17 on the clock.

vs Cincy
We took over with 14:22 left and eventually had a 4th and 3 at the Cincy 25 yard line down 11 points. He decided to kick the FG which was missed leaving 12:11 on the clock.

They are pretty similar situations. There were 5 mins more in the Cincy situation so there is more time to catch up. But IMO when you do it vs USF and then face this situation with a FG kicker who hasn't been making kicks and it is raining, I cannot see why in the hell you kick it.

 

[Cuseman78]

So the coaches see the issue- they devote time and attention to it.

And the players can't execute the plan.

And you think it's coaching.

I think it's players not executing.

Fisher is a .poor punter. Krautman has the yips and someone on the OL blew an assignment..

Kobena has poor hands. West drops too many passes and so does Jerome Smith.

We need a home run hitter - a guy who can score from anywhere on the field. We need to continue to improve our talent level.

You would make quite the CEO. Blame the peons for everything. The responsibility for Consistently Sloppy play (not just one game, there are always exceptions) quite clearly lies at the feet of the head coach. Either because he's not teaching proper technique or he's not recruiting the right players.

 

[Cuseman78]

What worries me is that Marrone did not know the score of the game on the 4th down decision when Krautman missed the FG. He said the score was 9 and wanted to get it down to 6. It was an 11 point game. He said that he wanted to get it down to one possession and technically 8 points is one possession but can you know the damn score? In addition what he did vs Cincy is the exact opposite of what he did vs USF. Here are the situations:

vs USF
We took over with 10:43 left and eventually had a 4th and 1 from the USF 26 yard line down 9 points. He decided to go for it and we got a TD a few plays later leaving 7:17 on the clock.

vs Cincy
We took over with 14:22 left and eventually had a 4th and 3 at the Cincy 25 yard line down 11 points. He decided to kick the FG which was missed leaving 12:11 on the clock.

They are pretty similar situations. There were 5 mins more in the Cincy situation so there is more time to catch up. But IMO when you do it vs USF and then face this situation with a FG kicker who hasn't been making kicks and it is raining, I cannot see why in the hell you kick it.

This decision drove me nuts. And this probably didn't change the outcome of the game, but it's another example of what I feel is HCDMs most glaring weakness. In-game decision making.

I didn't agree with the decision itself, but as you laid out, almost the exact same scenario played out against USF and he decided to go for it. I hated the inconsistency between two similar situations a week apart. Especially cmsiderimg that the move worked against USF. Really, really wish he would have decided to remain aggressive as he did last week.

And if he really thought it was a 9 pt game instead of 11, that really feeds into Millys "Coaches are meatheads" theme rather well. I will do the game decision stuff for free Dougie. Hire me already.

 

[CIL]

His name is BroylD. He sits on the bench most of the time.

You mean the kid who ran the wrong way and tackled our own ball carrier? Listen, the kid is goign to be a good player, but he makes a shittload of mental mistakes out there right now.

 

[gmoney44]

Why?

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Because we have a no name coach of a team that has been horrible for a decade, plays in CNY in front of 25k half empty building with garbage facilities, in the Big Least.

On the bright side our no name coach who was thrown into the deep end can at least tread water now. We our going to the ACC and starting to up grade our dog facilities.

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[SUMBA]

It is nothing short of OVERTHINKING and OVERANALYZING. Just play football, block the man in front of you and let the snapper, holder and kicker just do exactly that. Highly frustrating. 99% of teams don't deal with the extent of these psychological ST's issues.

Snap. Block & Place the ball. Kick. 3 points.

Boom.

Alex Karras once described the technique of "Cat blocking." When queried about this method Karras replied: "I block this cat, you block that cat..." It isn't rocket surgery, its football...Keep It Simple-just execute!

 

[orange79]

Did it occur to you that Kobena and Krautman and Fisher are the best we have right now?

Penalties in football can be so arbitrary and picayune or otherwise incalculable that I don't attribute the calls to the coaches.

Right now Cincy is better- we are getting close but Cincy is better. And that's why we lost- they made mistakes and they committed penalties but they are better.

Wow. You're right. I'm now convinced. It is impossible for any coaching staff anywhere to coach up kids. All mistakes are the kids' fault. There's just no other explanation.

 

[SUMBA]

Wow. You're right. I'm now convinced. It is impossible for any coaching staff anywhere to coach up kids. All mistakes are the kids' fault. There's just no other explanation.

You mean Bum Phillips was wrong?

Bear Bryant could take his'n and beat your'n, or he could take your'n and beat his'n.
-- Bum Phillips

I don't expect Bear Bryant like results but better discipline and execution would be welcome. That comes from the coaching staff.

 

[Orangello]

You mean the kid who ran the wrong way and tackled our own ball carrier? Listen, the kid is goign to be a good player, but he makes a shittload of mental mistakes out there right now.

He appears to be in excellent company in that regard.