What's the best rivalry in college hoops?"

[Bayside44]

Crazy, memorable moments that become create personal angst, become part of your DNA, and are talked about for decades after. I guess that's my point, Duke/UNC is the greatest rivalry, but it never had what SU/G-Town had. It seems more superficial in that it was media enhanced into the national spotlight and perpetuated because they are two blueblood programs that will always put on a great show.

Honest question - do you know a lot / any Duke / UNC people? They truly loathe each other. Plenty of Georgetown grads out there identify with the state school of their youth.

 

[Knicks411]

Crazy, memorable moments that become create personal angst, become part of your DNA, and are talked about for decades after. I guess that's my point, Duke/UNC is the greatest rivalry, but it never had what SU/G-Town had. It seems more superficial in that it was media enhanced into the national spotlight and perpetuated because they are two blueblood programs that will always put on a great show.

But Duke-UNC has all of that. It just also has the other stuff too.

 

[Briancuse]

How do I vote for UConn and UCF?

I thought their rival was East Carolina?

 

[MGP]

Honest question - do you know a lot / any Duke / UNC people? They truly loathe each other. Plenty of Georgetown grads out there identify with the state school of their youth.

as do any 2 fan bases close in proximity to each other. That is exactly my point - SU/G-Town didn't know each other from Adam until games played and things said created the rivalry. Again, not just 2 great schools with great programs that are regionally close to each other.

 

[Knicks411]

Regionally. ESPN could've just as easily made Kentucky/L'Ville or Missou/Kansas into the same national monster that UNC/Duke has become. Syracuse/Georgetown grew and became national on its own merits. The whole country couldn't wait for the next chapter...

in the 10 years prior to 1992 (82-91) those teams won 2 national titles and combined to make 7 final fours. They won 8 of the 10 ACC regular season titles and 6 of the 10 ACC tournament titles. They were dominant teams, and they remained dominant teams.

Maybe I'm missing the point you're making here. If Duke and UNC weren't so close to each other, they still would have become huge rivals because they were competing to be the best every year.

 

[Bayside44]

as do any 2 fan bases close in proximity to each other. That is exactly my point - SU/G-Town didn't know each other from Adam until games played and things said created the rivalry. Again, not just 2 great schools with great programs that are regionally close to each other.

With Duke / UNC is 2 different schools close to each other. Duke is basically the transplanted Yankees (with exceptions of course) and UNC is the generational school.

With us it's generally really cool people and GTown disinterested uniformed toolbags .

 

[MGP]

But Duke-UNC has all of that. It just also has the other stuff too.

Quick, top 5 pre-90's Duke/UNC moments - go...

 

[MGP]

in the 10 years prior to 1992 (82-91) those teams won 2 national titles and combined to make 7 final fours. They won 8 of the 10 ACC regular season titles and 6 of the 10 ACC tournament titles. They were dominant teams, and they remained dominant teams.

Maybe I'm missing the point you're making here. If Duke and UNC weren't so close to each other, they still would have become huge rivals because they were competing to be the best every year.

yet you can't remember any moments (not just players) from their rivalry before the 90's (unless you were from there)

 

[retro44]

SYRACUSE/LEMOYNE

 

[MGP]

Mid 90s you could walk right up to a Georgetown - SU game in DC and buy a good ticket. I know because I did.

Rivalry was pretty much dead by then in all but name...

 

[Knicks411]

yet you can't remember any moments (not just players) from their rivalry before the 90's (unless you were from there)

Well i was born in 1984. So I'll go to wikipedia.

March 2, 1974: #4 North Carolina 96, Duke 92 (OT)[edit]
8 Points in 17 Seconds. Duke led Carolina 86–78 with 17 seconds left. Despite the deficit and despite the fact that the game took place prior to the implementation of the three-point shot, Carolina rallied with a pair of free throws by Bobby Jones, then baskets by John Kuester and Jones after a steal by Walter Davis and a turnover on inbounds attempts. After Duke's Pete Kramer missed the front end of a one-and-one, Carolina tied the score on Davis' 30-foot bank shot as time expired. The game went into overtime, where Carolina prevailed, 96–92. To this day, many regard this comeback as the greatest in college basketball history.

February 24, 1979: #6 Duke 47, #4 North Carolina 40[edit]
Jim Spanarkel's Senior Day game turned into one of the strangest afternoons in ACC basketball history as Duke held Carolina scoreless for a half before knocking off the No. 4-ranked Tar Heels 47–40. Dean Smith resorted to the four corners offense and the Tar Heels held the ball throughout the first half, but Duke led 7–0 as Spanarkel forced two turnovers, assisted on a basket to Mike Gminski and scored the last bucket of the half on a short jumper. (Smith later said, "It should have been 2–0, or something like that, at the half.") Carolina's only two shots of the first half were air balls, that resulted in the first-ever chants of "Air ball . . . Air ball!" from the Cameron Crazies. Spanarkel added 15 points in the second half and finished with a game-high 17, hitting 8-of-9 field goal attempts. The win allowed Duke to tie North Carolina for the ACC regular season title.

Duke coach Bill Foster wasn't amused by Smith's tactics in the first half and the next day said, "I've been doing this a long time, but during the first half last night I began to think maybe I've been doing it for too long." He then added this infamous dig: "I thought Naismith invented basketball, not Deansmith."

Though the two schools had always had the hatred born of familiarity and proximity, some of the earliest roots of the modern basketball rivalry occurred in the early 1960s when Duke star and eventual national player of the year Art Heyman got into a brawl on the court with Carolina's Larry Brown which resulted in suspensions for both players

March 3, 1984: #1 North Carolina 96, Duke 83 (2OT)[edit]
The final home game for Matt Doherty, Michael Jordan, and Sam Perkins, was a memorable one for Tar Heels fans. Carolina looked to be finished when Duke's Mark Alarie converted a three-point play with 20 seconds to go in regulation and the Tar Heels missed a jumper that would have tied the game. However, after the Blue Devils missed the front end of a one-and-one, Matt Doherty took the inbounds pass the length of the court and hit a 15-footer with one second left to force overtime. The teams traded baskets during the first overtime and headed for the second extra session tied at 79. Michael Jordan opened the second overtime with an ally oop and a free throw, but Johnny Dawkins cut the North Carolina lead to 82–81 with a short jumper. Duke would get only one more basket as Jordan and Sam Perkins carried the Tar Heels to the 96–83 final, and Carolina became the first ACC team in 10 years to go undefeated in conference play (14–0). Alarie led all scorers with 28 points, while Jordan topped Carolina with 25.

March 12, 1989: #9 North Carolina 77, #7 Duke 74[edit]
In one of the most intense games in the rivalry's history, Carolina defeated Duke 77–74 in the ACC Tournament final at the Omni in Atlanta to secure the Heels' first ACC Tournament title in seven seasons. The teams had split the two regular season meetings; Carolina defeating top ranked and then undefeated Duke 91–71 in Cameron in January (a game notable for the infamous "J.R. Can't Reid" placard displayed by some Duke fans) then Duke returned the favor in Chapel Hill in the season finale, knocking off Carolina 88–86. Tensions between coaches Dean Smith and Mike Krzyzewski boiled over during Tournament week, stemming from the Reid sign in Durham in January, and by the time the two teams met in the conference championship, the game had developed the atmosphere of a heavyweight title fight. Carolina led for much of the game, including a 39–35 halftime lead, but never could pull away. Carolina's J.R. Reid, however, outplayed Duke's Naismith Award-finalist and ACC Tournament MVP Danny Ferry. The game saw an incredible 49 fouls called between the two squads, and Carolina prevailed, but only when Ferry's 3/4 court shot rimmed out as time expired.

How many Syracuse-GT moments do you think the average fan can remember?

 

[jncuse]

I'm trying to figure out a way for it not to be Duke/UNC, and there's just no way.

The teams are right next to each other, they've both been elite for basically 30-35 years, (Duke was more hit or miss prior to K, but still great at times), who else can it be?

Same here. At the same time, since i really hate both teams, as a fan its hard for me to caught up in the rivalry.

 

[MGP]

Well i was born in 1984. So I'll go to wikipedia.

March 2, 1974: #4 North Carolina 96, Duke 92 (OT)[edit]
8 Points in 17 Seconds. Duke led Carolina 86–78 with 17 seconds left. Despite the deficit and despite the fact that the game took place prior to the implementation of the three-point shot, Carolina rallied with a pair of free throws by Bobby Jones, then baskets by John Kuester and Jones after a steal by Walter Davis and a turnover on inbounds attempts. After Duke's Pete Kramer missed the front end of a one-and-one, Carolina tied the score on Davis' 30-foot bank shot as time expired. The game went into overtime, where Carolina prevailed, 96–92. To this day, many regard this comeback as the greatest in college basketball history.

February 24, 1979: #6 Duke 47, #4 North Carolina 40[edit]
Jim Spanarkel's Senior Day game turned into one of the strangest afternoons in ACC basketball history as Duke held Carolina scoreless for a half before knocking off the No. 4-ranked Tar Heels 47–40. Dean Smith resorted to the four corners offense and the Tar Heels held the ball throughout the first half, but Duke led 7–0 as Spanarkel forced two turnovers, assisted on a basket to Mike Gminski and scored the last bucket of the half on a short jumper. (Smith later said, "It should have been 2–0, or something like that, at the half.") Carolina's only two shots of the first half were air balls, that resulted in the first-ever chants of "Air ball . . . Air ball!" from the Cameron Crazies. Spanarkel added 15 points in the second half and finished with a game-high 17, hitting 8-of-9 field goal attempts. The win allowed Duke to tie North Carolina for the ACC regular season title.

Duke coach Bill Foster wasn't amused by Smith's tactics in the first half and the next day said, "I've been doing this a long time, but during the first half last night I began to think maybe I've been doing it for too long." He then added this infamous dig: "I thought Naismith invented basketball, not Deansmith."

Though the two schools had always had the hatred born of familiarity and proximity, some of the earliest roots of the modern basketball rivalry occurred in the early 1960s when Duke star and eventual national player of the year Art Heyman got into a brawl on the court with Carolina's Larry Brown which resulted in suspensions for both players

March 3, 1984: #1 North Carolina 96, Duke 83 (2OT)[edit]
The final home game for Matt Doherty, Michael Jordan, and Sam Perkins, was a memorable one for Tar Heels fans. Carolina looked to be finished when Duke's Mark Alarie converted a three-point play with 20 seconds to go in regulation and the Tar Heels missed a jumper that would have tied the game. However, after the Blue Devils missed the front end of a one-and-one, Matt Doherty took the inbounds pass the length of the court and hit a 15-footer with one second left to force overtime. The teams traded baskets during the first overtime and headed for the second extra session tied at 79. Michael Jordan opened the second overtime with an ally oop and a free throw, but Johnny Dawkins cut the North Carolina lead to 82–81 with a short jumper. Duke would get only one more basket as Jordan and Sam Perkins carried the Tar Heels to the 96–83 final, and Carolina became the first ACC team in 10 years to go undefeated in conference play (14–0). Alarie led all scorers with 28 points, while Jordan topped Carolina with 25.

March 12, 1989: #9 North Carolina 77, #7 Duke 74[edit]
In one of the most intense games in the rivalry's history, Carolina defeated Duke 77–74 in the ACC Tournament final at the Omni in Atlanta to secure the Heels' first ACC Tournament title in seven seasons. The teams had split the two regular season meetings; Carolina defeating top ranked and then undefeated Duke 91–71 in Cameron in January (a game notable for the infamous "J.R. Can't Reid" placard displayed by some Duke fans) then Duke returned the favor in Chapel Hill in the season finale, knocking off Carolina 88–86. Tensions between coaches Dean Smith and Mike Krzyzewski boiled over during Tournament week, stemming from the Reid sign in Durham in January, and by the time the two teams met in the conference championship, the game had developed the atmosphere of a heavyweight title fight. Carolina led for much of the game, including a 39–35 halftime lead, but never could pull away. Carolina's J.R. Reid, however, outplayed Duke's Naismith Award-finalist and ACC Tournament MVP Danny Ferry. The game saw an incredible 49 fouls called between the two squads, and Carolina prevailed, but only when Ferry's 3/4 court shot rimmed out as time expired.

How many Syracuse-GT moments do you think the average fan can remember?

Well i was born in 1984. So I'll go to wikipedia.

March 2, 1974: #4 North Carolina 96, Duke 92 (OT)[edit]
8 Points in 17 Seconds. Duke led Carolina 86–78 with 17 seconds left. Despite the deficit and despite the fact that the game took place prior to the implementation of the three-point shot, Carolina rallied with a pair of free throws by Bobby Jones, then baskets by John Kuester and Jones after a steal by Walter Davis and a turnover on inbounds attempts. After Duke's Pete Kramer missed the front end of a one-and-one, Carolina tied the score on Davis' 30-foot bank shot as time expired. The game went into overtime, where Carolina prevailed, 96–92. To this day, many regard this comeback as the greatest in college basketball history.

February 24, 1979: #6 Duke 47, #4 North Carolina 40[edit]
Jim Spanarkel's Senior Day game turned into one of the strangest afternoons in ACC basketball history as Duke held Carolina scoreless for a half before knocking off the No. 4-ranked Tar Heels 47–40. Dean Smith resorted to the four corners offense and the Tar Heels held the ball throughout the first half, but Duke led 7–0 as Spanarkel forced two turnovers, assisted on a basket to Mike Gminski and scored the last bucket of the half on a short jumper. (Smith later said, "It should have been 2–0, or something like that, at the half.") Carolina's only two shots of the first half were air balls, that resulted in the first-ever chants of "Air ball . . . Air ball!" from the Cameron Crazies. Spanarkel added 15 points in the second half and finished with a game-high 17, hitting 8-of-9 field goal attempts. The win allowed Duke to tie North Carolina for the ACC regular season title.

Duke coach Bill Foster wasn't amused by Smith's tactics in the first half and the next day said, "I've been doing this a long time, but during the first half last night I began to think maybe I've been doing it for too long." He then added this infamous dig: "I thought Naismith invented basketball, not Deansmith."

Though the two schools had always had the hatred born of familiarity and proximity, some of the earliest roots of the modern basketball rivalry occurred in the early 1960s when Duke star and eventual national player of the year Art Heyman got into a brawl on the court with Carolina's Larry Brown which resulted in suspensions for both players

March 3, 1984: #1 North Carolina 96, Duke 83 (2OT)[edit]
The final home game for Matt Doherty, Michael Jordan, and Sam Perkins, was a memorable one for Tar Heels fans. Carolina looked to be finished when Duke's Mark Alarie converted a three-point play with 20 seconds to go in regulation and the Tar Heels missed a jumper that would have tied the game. However, after the Blue Devils missed the front end of a one-and-one, Matt Doherty took the inbounds pass the length of the court and hit a 15-footer with one second left to force overtime. The teams traded baskets during the first overtime and headed for the second extra session tied at 79. Michael Jordan opened the second overtime with an ally oop and a free throw, but Johnny Dawkins cut the North Carolina lead to 82–81 with a short jumper. Duke would get only one more basket as Jordan and Sam Perkins carried the Tar Heels to the 96–83 final, and Carolina became the first ACC team in 10 years to go undefeated in conference play (14–0). Alarie led all scorers with 28 points, while Jordan topped Carolina with 25.

March 12, 1989: #9 North Carolina 77, #7 Duke 74[edit]
In one of the most intense games in the rivalry's history, Carolina defeated Duke 77–74 in the ACC Tournament final at the Omni in Atlanta to secure the Heels' first ACC Tournament title in seven seasons. The teams had split the two regular season meetings; Carolina defeating top ranked and then undefeated Duke 91–71 in Cameron in January (a game notable for the infamous "J.R. Can't Reid" placard displayed by some Duke fans) then Duke returned the favor in Chapel Hill in the season finale, knocking off Carolina 88–86. Tensions between coaches Dean Smith and Mike Krzyzewski boiled over during Tournament week, stemming from the Reid sign in Durham in January, and by the time the two teams met in the conference championship, the game had developed the atmosphere of a heavyweight title fight. Carolina led for much of the game, including a 39–35 halftime lead, but never could pull away. Carolina's J.R. Reid, however, outplayed Duke's Naismith Award-finalist and ACC Tournament MVP Danny Ferry. The game saw an incredible 49 fouls called between the two squads, and Carolina prevailed, but only when Ferry's 3/4 court shot rimmed out as time expired.

How many Syracuse-GT moments do you think the average fan can remember?

Not saying there weren't great moments, just saying you (or anyone not from the area) don't remember the (even if you were born in '64). Many average college basketball fans from 80s can remember many SU/G-Town moments.

 

[Alsacs]

Duke-UNC is the Ohio State-Michigan of College Football rivalry.
It gets over-hyped but the games live up to the hype.
The stat that impressed me is that JB-John Thompson have the record for ranked vs. ranked coaching matchups at 29.
Coach K and Roy Williams are up to 26 and that includes games from when Roy was at Kansas.
JB has the top 2 matchups until Roy-K passes them. JB-JT 29 times, and JB-Jim Calhoun 28 times.

Every Duke-UNC matchup since 1980 has featured one ranked team.
It is the best rivalry in college hoops. Louisville-Kentucky is 2nd IMO.
There aren't many real rivalries because of one and dones. It is now more coaching rivalries.

When the Big East started in 1980- in the 80's Georgetown-Syracuse became an elite rivalry because of the new Big East getting all the publicity and coverage from ESPN and CBS. The game was the rivalry of the new league. UNC-Duke was still an elite rivalry. What hurts GU-SU is that Georgetown doesn't have a fanbase. It is tiny all it is are alums and the school is tiny. The people in DC are Maryland/Virginia fans as well.

SU has non-alum fans in CNY. Georgetown doesn't. UNC-Duke is miles better than SU-GU.

 

[Knicks411]

Not saying there weren't great moments, just saying you (or anyone not from the area) don't remember the (even if you were born in '64). Many average college basketball fans from 80s can remember many SU/G-Town moments.

And I'm sure they could also remember many great Duke-UNC moments from the same period. That's all.

I also think you probably overrate how big the Su/Gtown rivalry was relative to others. I was born in 1984, so I wasn't following college hoops at the time, but I really doubt ST/Gtown was any bigger than Duke/UNC to a neutral fan in whatever year from about 1984 or so on that you want to pick. (it took Duke a few years with K to become a true national power)

 

[Eric15]

as do any 2 fan bases close in proximity to each other. That is exactly my point - SU/G-Town didn't know each other from Adam until games played and things said created the rivalry. Again, not just 2 great schools with great programs that are regionally close to each other.

I respect your passion, and the SU/GT rivalry is/was incredible. But I think you're letting your own personal nostalgia for it cloud your judgement a bit.

 

[orangedave]

Did any of you ever even watch a Duke/UNC game before about 1992? I doubt it. The whole rivaly was regional and created nationally by ESPN trying to cash in on the ratings bonanza that SU/G-Town created organically.

Most rivalries are regional or were before ESPN. You can make a case for SU/G-town also being a product of ESPN.

 

[SU2NASA]

Having lived in Durham for a decade from '95- '05 ish, I can honestly say that I've seen nothing like the DUKE -UNC rivalry.
Proximity of universities coupled with consistent success has made for something incredible. In the triangle area of NC, you have family members, co-workers, classmates, etc on opposite sides of the fence so it is a daily thing to "defend." I think that is the difference - it's not regional like some/most of the rest. These are folks in the same house against each other.

Of course for me, it will always be G'Town - Syracuse, followed by 'Cuse - UConn.

LGO!!

It's not focused on basketball, but UNC and Duke basketball has nothing on Michigan-Ohio State. My wife's from Chapel Hill and even she says the same. UNC and Duke fans coexist peacefully. Michigan and Ohio as states hate each other.

 

[orangedave]

media driven

As was SU/Gtown.

 

[Knicks411]

Most rivalries are regional or were before ESPN. You can make a case for SU/G-town also being a product of ESPN.

This was my impression as well, ESPN got in bed pretty early with the BE, no?

 

[Shark58]

Unfortunately the conference realignment phenomenon has had a profound impact on historic rivalries and as a result the answer to this question must be qualified by time. Nowhere has this had a more profound impact than on the dissolution of the Big East. Within a specific timeframe one could certainly advance the viewpoint that the Syracuse Georgetown rivalry was at the apex of the rivalry scale. Upon John Thompsons retirement and the downswing of the Georgetown program the Syracuse / Uconn rivalry began to ascend as the predominant rivalry in the Big East.

Since North Carolina and Duke have been rivals and the conference realignment did not alter that it would seem that they are perhaps unquestionably the biggest rivalry in the modern college basketball era.

For me personally, I just can't imagine a bigger and more intensely contested rivalry than the one that existed back during the heyday of the Big East when Syracuse and Georgetown features such bigger than life combatants as Pearl, Ewing, Coleman, Mourning , Reggie Williams, Sherm, etc...There was a genuine sense of vitriol and loathing which existed not only between the teams and coaches but extended in a palpable manner to the fanbases of each team as well. Those halcyon years of the Syracuse / Georgetown rivalry for me personally, represent the epitome of competitive intensity which elicited a level of enthusiasm, anticipation and emotional investment that I don't think can be again attained.

For me... it was SO MUCH MORE...than a basketball game or a rivalry... as the game approached... it was EVERYTHING!

this is the era that I used to bartend at bars in Georgetown sporting a "Your Mama's a Hoya" T


good times

F Michael Graham

 

[Eric15]

UNC and Duke fans coexist peacefully. Michigan and Ohio as states hate each other.

In that case, I give bonus points to UNC/Duke fans for remembering that this is simply 18-22 year olds playing a game.

 

[Shark58]

Crazy, memorable moments that become create personal angst, become part of your DNA, and are talked about for decades after. I guess that's my point, Duke/UNC is the greatest rivalry, but it never had what SU/G-Town had. It seems more superficial in that it was media enhanced into the national spotlight and perpetuated because they are two blueblood programs that will always put on a great show.

SU vs those bastards inside the beltway was 100% media enhanced, esp because it was so well earned. the BE conf was successful because of the big media push behind it. one could argue that that era of sports "reporting" started they hype machine we currently ride.

100% agree that our rivalry is organic (as UNC/Duke prob is too, dont know enough to state otherwise) but was def intensified because of media enhancement

 

[dasher]

As was SU/Gtown.

tually it was jt2 driven

 

[TheGov3304]

Colgate - Syracuse