When I take off my Orange colored glasses...

[Crusty]

What’s crazy is how our recruiting rankings like this year and others are not great, i get that. They really aren’t much different the Shafers recruiting classes if you go by ranking. But, holy cow it’s sooooo obvious how much better the talent is that Dino is bringing in. So I don’t know how much I value those rankings. Anything after top 35-40 is really just BS let’s be honest. So I must say I actually think the recruiting is not as bad as the rankings say.

Now that being said, that leaves us with middle of the pack roster in the landscape of CFB, which middle of the pack rosters need excellent coaching to be above average teams.

In my opinion to get to the next level of recruiting(top 40 class), At this point we need a few (2-3 straight) over achieving seasons in my opinion. Where we are ranked or flirting with being ranked and finishing 8-4 or 9-3. We need to change our approach I think like many here said, where we decrease our HS recruiting classes and focus heavily on talented transfers.

To wrap up this rant, I guess it all comes down to over achieving when you have medium level talent, and stringing together multiple seasons of that over achieving, which brings more $$ to the program, more exposure, better recruiting, etc.

Just freaking win! And right now to be a consistently good winning team we need to “over achieve”. Let’s hope we over achieve in 23, because technically we did in 22. That would be a start to getting where we all want this to go.

 

[Crusty]

What’s crazy is how our recruiting rankings like this year and others are not great, i get that. They really aren’t much different the Shafers recruiting classes if you go by ranking. But, holy cow it’s sooooo obvious how much better the talent is that Dino is bringing in. So I don’t know how much I value those rankings. Anything after top 35-40 is really just BS let’s be honest. So I must say I actually think the recruiting is not as bad as the rankings say.

Now that being said, that leaves us with middle of the pack roster in the landscape of CFB, which middle of the pack rosters need excellent coaching to be above average teams.

In my opinion to get to the next level of recruiting(top 40 class), At this point we need a few (2-3 straight) over achieving seasons in my opinion. Where we are ranked or flirting with being ranked and finishing 8-4 or 9-3. We need to change our approach I think like many here said, where we decrease our HS recruiting classes and focus heavily on talented transfers.

To wrap up this rant, I guess it all comes down to over achieving when you have medium level talent, and stringing together multiple seasons of that over achieving, which brings more $$ to the program, more exposure, better recruiting, etc.

Just freaking win! And right now to be a consistently good winning team we need to “over achieve”. Let’s hope we over achieve in 23, because technically we did in 22. That would be a start to getting where we all want this to go.

Here are some of Shafer's recruits:
Eric Dungey
Ervin Phillips
Chris Slayton
Bristly Estime
Jamer McGloster
Aaron Roberts
Evan Adams
Cole Murphy
Denzel Ward
Steve Ismael
Zaire Franklin
Jamal Custis
Luke Arciniega
Sterling Hofrichter
Dontae Strickland

Dino hasn't really done better in 7 years. (Shafer didn't have the portal or same transfer rules).

 

[money3189]

Here are some of Shafer's recruits:
Eric Dungey
Ervin Phillips
Chris Slayton
Bristly Estime
Jamer McGloster
Aaron Roberts
Evan Adams
Cole Murphy
Denzel Ward
Steve Ismael
Zaire Franklin
Jamal Custis
Luke Arciniega
Sterling Hofrichter
Dontae Strickland

Dino hasn't really done better in 7 years. (Shafer didn't have the portal or same transfer rules).

Are you talking about their production or rankings coming out of HS?

 

[Crusty]

Are you talking about their production or rankings coming out of HS?

I was referring to production (and potential) but there is not much statistical recruiting difference as I recall. I looked at it several years ago and there was no real difference between Marrone, Shafer and Babers. I know we keep saying that the "eye test" looks better but we have been saying that every year sine Marrone's second class.

As far a three stars improving, we seem to forget that the overwhelming number of recruits are 3 stars and it stands to reason that odds are many of them will ramp up sharply. I think 4 and 5 star players do as well and I would rather try to coach up a bunch of 4 stars than 3 stars. Over the long term, I would have greater success.

There have been a couple of fairly good studies on the success of teams with higher rated recruits and the evidence was strong that higher ranking teams have better success. Given our record over the last couple of decades+ I don't think we should be thinking we are the exception to the rule.

That said, coaching matters and with the portal, there is more opportunity for good coaching to close the gap. Or, at least I hope so.

 

[Crusty]

Very honest take. I agree with everything you said. As for next year we got a tough conference draw. The only way it would be tougher if they swapped out GT for Duke. We have to figure out a way to beat Pitt. Right now with our 3 teams we play every year FSU is typically a loss, Pitt has been a loss, and BC a toss up with a slight lean to us. I think we will expand on that. It’s at least getting even with Pitt so we’re not at a constant deficit each year.

I absolutely hate being out coached by Pitt ever year. This has to stop.

 

[money3189]

I was referring to production (and potential) but there is not much statistical recruiting difference as I recall. I looked at it several years ago and there was no real difference between Marrone, Shafer and Babers. I know we keep saying that the "eye test" looks better but we have been saying that every year sine Marrone's second class.

As far a three stars improving, we seem to forget that the overwhelming number of recruits are 3 stars and it stands to reason that odds are many of them will ramp up sharply. I think 4 and 5 star players do as well and I would rather try to coach up a bunch of 4 stars than 3 stars. Over the long term, I would have greater success.

There have been a couple of fairly good studies on the success of teams with higher rated recruits and the evidence was strong that higher ranking teams have better success. Given our record over the last couple of decades+ I don't think we should be thinking we are the exception to the rule.

That said, coaching matters and with the portal, there is more opportunity for good coaching to close the gap. Or, at least I hope so.

Im just talking composite rankings. I dont think anyone is saying its a huge difference but there is a jump in average per recruit.

 

[Crusty]

Im just talking composite rankings. I dont think anyone is saying its a huge difference but there is a jump in average per recruit.

I don't know why I should care about minor differences when we bring up the rear each year in the ACC. Every year we find a way to rationalize a better class than we actually have. Sure we have some really good players but just not enough. To make matters worse our really good ones only play 3 years.

I do think we have done better in the portal and I am hoping we can attract DBs, LBs and skill players better than we can recruit from HS. Given the players we have put in the league we should be able to attract defensive players on the portal. Skill players will depend on playing time, of course.

Hopefully, the portal closes the recruiting gap for us.

 

[GoSU96]

Here are some of Shafer's recruits:
Eric Dungey
Ervin Phillips
Chris Slayton
Bristly Estime
Jamer McGloster
Aaron Roberts
Evan Adams
Cole Murphy
Denzel Ward
Steve Ismael
Zaire Franklin
Jamal Custis
Luke Arciniega
Sterling Hofrichter
Dontae Strickland

Dino hasn't really done better in 7 years. (Shafer didn't have the portal or same transfer rules).

Yeah he has, better at the top numerically, better at the bottom, fewer reaches, roster is better 1-85. Team is bigger, faster, stronger than when he took over.

Still a lot of room to improve but to argue it’s not better is counter factual

 

[Crusty]

Yeah he has, better at the top numerically, better at the bottom, fewer reaches, roster is better 1-85. Team is bigger, faster, stronger than when he took over.

Still a lot of room to improve but to argue it’s not better is counter factual

Well, I would love to see your numbers, because in the aggregate and relative to our ACC peers we are the same. It's easy to say bigger, faster, stronger but that is an opinion rather than a stat. If we were all those things our record would be much better. With Dino's record it is just not credible.
If recruiting is that much better everyone else must be even better or we just can't coach what we have. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[perdurabo]

Athletic ability is normally distributed. The Bell Curve. New York State should have the same amount of 4 and 5 star talent as any state of similar size. We know that footbal in NY is not emphasized like it is in Texas or Florida.
There is anecdotal evidence that althletes who have limited exposure to organized football can be coached up to perform at a high level in a reasonably short time frame. How can these athletes be identified? What sports in particular could be scrutinizes? Track, Lacrosse, Wrestling come to mind.
Can you envision any scenario where we could find and coach up outstanding athletes who have limited Football experience?

 

[Cuse'91]

Athletic ability is normally distributed. The Bell Curve. New York State should have the same amount of 4 and 5 star talent as any state of similar size. We know that footbal in NY is not emphasized like it is in Texas or Florida.
There is anecdotal evidence that althletes who have limited exposure to organized football can be coached up to perform at a high level in a reasonably short time frame. How can these athletes be identified? What sports in particular could be scrutinizes? Track, Lacrosse, Wrestling come to mind.
Can you envision any scenario where we could find and coach up outstanding athletes who have limited Football experience?

What about theory that Southern states are warmer, thus allow more practice days for football? Agree, NY shouldn't trail other Northern states like OH and PA. The City has the majority of the population; one could argue that NY's top recruits become NJ's top recruits because they cross the river and play for Jersey parochial schools.

 

[money3189]

I don't know why I should care about minor differences when we bring up the rear each year in the ACC. Every year we find a way to rationalize a better class than we actually have. Sure we have some really good players but just not enough. To make matters worse our really good ones only play 3 years.

I do think we have done better in the portal and I am hoping we can attract DBs, LBs and skill players better than we can recruit from HS. Given the players we have put in the league we should be able to attract defensive players on the portal. Skill players will depend on playing time, of course.

Hopefully, the portal closes the recruiting gap for us.

I didnt say anything about how good or bad this class is. Just simply said they are getting higher rated commits compared to Shaf and Doug. Which is true.

 

[phil77]

I feel with Shrader as our QB we are a 5-7 win team. In my opinion I don't think we will win many more games than that with him as the QB. I do think he is the best option to start next year currently on the roster.

I would love to see Dino get our other QBs more action especially against Colgate - West Michigan - Army.

 

[shu 49]

when has Syracuse attracted 4 and 5 star talent? A few here and there when we were really good but that’s about it, even back then it may be a stretch. I just think people are always going to be disappointed if they are star and ranking mongers with regard to recruiting. have to assemble Enough talent to have a consistently competitive football team that gets to bowl games very regularly

Konrad high 5 star back, morant as was nmber 1 receiver in country that year I believe. I thought Harrison was highly rated. Darius was up there too. Trying to remember. The losing records makes it hard to get guys here. If we can keep up winning I think we can turn it around on the recruiting front. Money, I disagree with u on the snow and cold. Doesn’t bother big ten teams so yeah we may lose a guy who hates cold but not too often if they see we are putting guys in nfl and winning it may improve hopefully.

 

[Cuse181]

I don't know why I should care about minor differences when we bring up the rear each year in the ACC. Every year we find a way to rationalize a better class than we actually have. Sure we have some really good players but just not enough. To make matters worse our really good ones only play 3 years.

I do think we have done better in the portal and I am hoping we can attract DBs, LBs and skill players better than we can recruit from HS. Given the players we have put in the league we should be able to attract defensive players on the portal. Skill players will depend on playing time, of course.

Hopefully, the portal closes the recruiting gap for us.

You want the really good players playing for 3 years, that means they’re leaving for the nfl

 

[money3189]

Konrad high 5 star back, morant as was nmber 1 receiver in country that year I believe. I thought Harrison was highly rated. Darius was up there too. Trying to remember. The losing records makes it hard to get guys here. If we can keep up winning I think we can turn it around on the recruiting front. Money, I disagree with u on the snow and cold. Doesn’t bother big ten teams so yeah we may lose a guy who hates cold but not too often if they see we are putting guys in nfl and winning it may improve hopefully.

This is not my opinion. These are things that are told to me that influence kids decisions. The combination of weather and losing is a factor. If we were winning then more highly recruited kids from the south will be more open to coming to SU.

 

[SmilinBob]

I feel with Shrader as our QB we are a 5-7 win team. In my opinion I don't think we will win many more games than that with him as the QB. I do think he is the best option to start next year currently on the roster.

I would love to see Dino get our other QBs more action especially against Colgate - West Michigan - Army.

I think SU will do quite well with Shrader at QB as long as he is protected better on passing situations and doesn't have to run as much.

 

[SoBristol]

I think SU will do quite well with Shrader at QB as long as he is protected better on passing situations and doesn't have to run as much.

Shrader with his running is the one thing that gives us a chance. We have to keep the defenses off balance. Sure, rebuild the OL. Give him Gadsden, Isiah Jones, an improved Alford, and another weapon from the portal. But his running is what gives us a chance.

 

[orangepassion]

Shrader with his running is the one thing that gives us a chance. We have to keep the defenses off balance. Sure, rebuild the OL. Give him Gadsden, Isiah Jones, an improved Alford, and another weapon from the portal. But his running is what gives us a chance.

Agree. If Shrader doesn't run, he's limited as a QB. He doesn't have a good enough arm to be a pure pocket passer. Truthfully, watching some of the Bowl games, most of the QB's were running a good amount.

 

[SmilinBob]

Shrader with his running is the one thing that gives us a chance. We have to keep the defenses off balance. Sure, rebuild the OL. Give him Gadsden, Isiah Jones, an improved Alford, and another weapon from the portal. But his running is what gives us a chance.

I never said that he shouldn't run but not run as often. Big difference.

 

[shu 49]

This is not my opinion. These are things that are told to me that influence kids decisions. The combination of weather and losing is a factor. If we were winning then more highly recruited kids from the south will be more open to coming to SU.

Yeah thats kinda where my head is at. Hope we keep winning and it improves.

 

[kcsu]

I think SU will do quite well with Shrader at QB as long as he is protected better on passing situations and doesn't have to run as much.

Shrader is our best offensive weapon. His ability to run opens up so much. Im thrilled he is back. Also thrilled to have Carlos and Lamson. Both of those guys have big upsides.
Lamson throws a really nice ball and has legs. Carlos has all the tools just needs to put it all together. QB room is solid

 

[SmilinBob]

Shrader is our best offensive weapon. His ability to run opens up so much. Im thrilled he is back. Also thrilled to have Carlos and Lamson. Both of those guys have big upsides.
Lamson throws a really nice ball and has legs. Carlos has all the tools just needs to put it all together. QB room is solid

I agree. My point being the Clemson game for example regarding Shrader. Running...yes, he is a weapon for the O. Too much and it hinders his health as we've seen the past 2 years as the season gets into late October and November.

I'm hoping Lamson comes back 100% healthy which would give SU 2/3 solid backups.

CDRW reminds me of Nassib regarding his arm and hopefully develops more of a touch as he matures.