when it comes to melo i think there is one question to ask

[orangehomer]

who is the best player he has played with? LeBron is fantastic of course, but to win a title he pouted, left Cleveland, and played with wade and bosh in their primes. Carmelo has never played with anyone close to as good as either. my question, who is the best he has played with? he has always been batman, but he has never had a robin. look at the heat, they have 2 batmen.

 

[orangehomer]

i'll answer my own question, the best player Carmelo has played with is billups, who was slightly past his prime in Denver. in new York he has had a hurt stoudamire, an inconsistent chandler, and a jr smith that is tanking in the playoffs. Jason kidd hasn't scored in like a month. no other star is doing more with less.

 

[OrangeDW]

He had Iverson for a year or two, while he was still very good. But yeah, more often than not he hasn't had a lot to play with.

Not sure when LeBron "pouted" though. He just went to a better situation for himself, just like Melo did when he got himself traded to NY.

 

[orangefan13]

Melo scores but not sure he makes those around him better which makes him a lone wolf. Its tough to find a robin when you like to slow down and isolate so much. I see him more as a robin or a secret weapon.

Love the guy but compared to most of the nba leaders like lebron, duncan, dirk, kobe, wade, durant its harder for me to imagine him winning a big one. His teams always lack something in the playoffs. For what its worth turnovers and bad shot selections are easier to fix then lack of scoring and bad defense.

 

[djcon57]

IMO it's Chandler (when healthy)

 

[cuseinseattle]

Another Melo vs Lebron thread. This is never talked about. I think the best player Melo ever played with is Gerry McNamara.

 

[NailstheCusefan12]

Another Melo vs Lebron thread. This is never talked about. I think the best player Melo ever played with is Gerry McNamara.

Funny you say that. My initial reaction was the collegiate Hakim Warrick.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Funny you say that. My initial reaction was the collegiate Hakim Warrick.

I thought about that but I wanted to go with best while playing with Melo. I think frosh GMac was better than soph Warrick.

 

[hoopsupstate]

No one ever mentions that he never had any problems giving up the ball on the Olympic team. He was probably their best all around player. The great Lebron has how many championships? Melo has a NCAA championship, 2 gold medals and has only 1 less NBA championship. How many NBA championships do Ewing, Stockton, Malone, Barkley, and many others have. All we hear is that Melo has only gotten out of the first round now once in 10 years. They were only the favorites on 2 occasions. Too many talking heads have no clue.

 

[SteveC]

All we hear is that Melo has only gotten out of the first round now once in 10 years.

He's made it out of the first round twice. not much different but that team (was it '09?) was playing very well. i remember them throwing away at least one game (literally with a turnover on an inbounds) against the Lakers in their 4-2 series loss.

 

[Knicks411]

No one ever mentions that he never had any problems giving up the ball on the Olympic team.

I think the Olympic team is a little bit different, since it's basically an all star team, only better.

Melo had some pretty solid teams in Denver. In 2010 he had JR, Billups, Nene, Aaron Afflalo, a rookie Ty Lawson, Birdman.

He's not played with another real All star scoring type player, unless you consider Amare one. But he's generally had pretty good talent around him.

All we hear is that Melo has only gotten out of the first round now once in 10 years. They were only the favorites on 2 occasions.

I think it's 4 times (2013, 2009, 2010, and 2006) but I'm not sure that is a defense of Melo. Usually the elite players are favored in round 1 of the playoffs. (Though Chris Paul is starting to look like Melo a little in this repsect. I think the dude is one of the best in the game but I think he's made it out of the first round only once or twice)

 

[CusefanATL]

Not sure when LeBron "pouted" though. He just went to a better situation for himself, just like Melo did when he got himself traded to NY.

Yea, exactly. Melo thought he was going to have Robin in Amare (who is much better than bosh when healthy). It was a bad decision on Melo's part because even when healthy those 2 are terrible together. You can't take away from Lebron that he at the very least can mold to help fit any other player in the league.

Also keep in mind - Lebron took less money to make it work.

 

[CusefanATL]

No one ever mentions that he never had any problems giving up the ball on the Olympic team. He was probably their best all around player. The great Lebron has how many championships? Melo has a NCAA championship, 2 gold medals and has only 1 less NBA championship. How many NBA championships do Ewing, Stockton, Malone, Barkley, and many others have. All we hear is that Melo has only gotten out of the first round now once in 10 years. They were only the favorites on 2 occasions. Too many talking heads have no clue.

He was probably the best olympic all around player? Are you feeling OK?

 

[OrangeFoo]

I am as big of a Knicks/Melo fan as anyone but I think we are building a strawman argument by saying that Melo hasn't played with anyone with talent... Iman Shumpert/JR Smith/STAT/Ray Felton... these are are legit NBA players who would get run on any team in the league. Melo's biggest problem is when the pressure of the playoffs is on, he feels like he has to take every shot and he gets this lone wolf, me against the world mentality. The best player on the Knicks these playoffs has been Felton, it was painful to see Felton get frozen out in the 3rd/4th quarter against Indiana when they lost the other night.

 

[MikeSU02]

I think it's 4 times (2013, 2009, 2010, and 2006) but I'm not sure that is a defense of Melo. Usually the elite players are favored in round 1 of the playoffs. (Though Chris Paul is starting to look like Melo a little in this repsect. I think the dude is one of the best in the game but I think he's made it out of the first round only once or twice)

Once you remove LeBron from any sort of comparison, Melo fits in fine with the other elite players. Look at the rest of the 2012 elite Olympians and the other elite or almost elite they played with:

Kobe (Shaq/Pau)
Harden (KD / Russ)
CP3 (Blake - and that is stretching it, Blake is overrated)
Russ (KD / Harden)
Deron (Joe Johnson - stretching it)
Melo (Billups - a stretch / Amare - for very brief moments / Tyson - big stretch)
KD (Harden / Russ)
Kevin Love (Rubio)

Kobe and the OKC team from last year are EASILY the most supported with good players. Kobe has 5 rings and OKC made the finals last year.

Look what happens when you don't have support. CP3 can't get the Clips to the finals being coached by a terrible coach and two bigs that don't want to get better skill-wise. DW - hasn't done that much. Love has been dealing with Kahn.

You need other elite players. At least one for offensive support. Now, if the Knicks were able to work some magic and get CP3 and they STILL couldn't get over the hump, then it would be warranted.

Melo isn't perfect and he's not as good as LBJ and probably Durant. But other than that, he is in the conversation. I would even argue at times he is better than Durant.

 

[Knicks411]

I think Melo has been really good this year, and I don't think I have really killed him that much, so I agree. Him moving to the four and being able to play some passable post defense has really helped the Knicks get better lineups on the court.

His playoff career has been uninspiring though. That's a fair criticism, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way going forward. Knicks already got out of round 1 (first time since i was in high school!) and if they can get by Indy and then lose to Miami, I think that would be a very fair result and wouldn't be one you can hold against Melo.

 

[KevMonstah]

There is one thing to point out in the Melo to the Knicks trade: while he wanted to play for the Knicks, he was unwilling to play out the season in Denver because he badly wanted to $20M per extension he was only going to get by signing with a team before the end of the 2011 season due to the forthcoming lockout. Because of this, he did force the trade to the Knicks during the year, so he could get his $$$$. If he'd been willing to live with whatever came out of the lockout, the Knicks would not have ended up sending 5 players plus a #1 and two #2 draft picks to other teams, and maybe could've come up with a better lineup. I refer to them as the Island of Misfit Toys, because I can't fathom how any GM in his right mind could spend $80M and get the lineup they have.

The best player he's been with has probably been Chauncey Billups. But he has never been on a team that has been smartly put together. He's carried every team as far as he could before the team's limitations stopped them. And I might add, where he's gotten is about the same place Kevin Garnett had gotten his Twolves to; he wasn't considered a playoff winner until you put two more HoF players on his team.

Kev

 

[skurey]

No Melo doesn't have any stars around him but the way the Knicks are currently constructed is pretty damn good. Lot of experienced players who can make a bunch of 3s when Melo is doubled. A shut down center in the middle on defense (when he's healthy). The team as a whole has been playing great defense.

They are a slightly worse version of the 2011 Mavs with Dirk being a superior Melo.

 

[newmexicuse]

Some of those Denver teams were pretty stacked with Iverson, , Nene, Kenyon & Chauncey in their primes plus Andre Miller. However, similar to the Ewing years Knicks, when it was almost impossible to get by the Bulls, you had the Lakers dominating the west for many of those years. It is still hard not to argue that those Nugget teams, while perhaps not championship caliber, should have gotten out of the first round more frequently.

This Knick team is functioning very well as a unit with excellent D. Felton is playing at a very high level and Shumpert is rapidly getting back to where he was last season pre-injury. I think Priglioni should be less unselfish and score a bit more. The wildcards for the Knicks right now are that Smith is in a horrendous slump and Chandler is not yet back to his pre-injury levels. Also, Kidd hasn't made a shot in about a month. The Knicks are old and injury prone, but if Melo can overcome his sore shoulder & Smith & Tyson can get back on track they may not be the favorites, but they would have a legit shot at a title. Kenyon has been a huge pick-up. I am not sure if this team would be better off with Amare coming back or not. Miami is just not that strong after the Big 3 & perhaps can be worn down, especially if the Bulls can make this a tough series. Wade, especially, seems creaky at times.

Melo really impressed yesterday & took over the game at a critical time. I think this series is a big test for him because if he plays at a high level he should be able to lead this team past the Pacers. If he reverts to his slump & the Knicks don't advance, well then the only excuse is his sore left shoulder if you want to buy into that. If the Knicks advance to the conf finals then he will have met all reasonable expectations and anything else would be pure gravy.

 

[baggerbob]

Actually the next game Saturday is important, if Knicks can steal that one series could be over quick. Indiana has basically played 7 players in the playoffs, unless blowouts. If Stat can be effective for 20 minutes, the Knicks have 9 guys who can play well, Big's Chandler, Stat, Martin, SF and SG Melo, JR, Shumpert, PG Felton, Kidd, P.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Has Melo ever had a teammate make an all star team (while Melo was on the team)?

 

[Knicks411]

Has Melo ever had a teammate make an all star team (while Melo was on the team)?

It happened all of 10 weeks ago

 

[RandygoCuse]

Chandler, right. I need the face smacking icon.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Well, Lebron made it TO the finals with a team full-o bums. If Carmelo did that, the heat would be off. But, it's not really even a matter of making it that far. It's the way Carmelo plays, and the fact that he came into the league concurrent with the league's best player, and at similar size/skills.

Carmelo's problem is style of play. A better coach would help him, but it would take a very commanding presence — Phil, Riley, Popovich — to change his ways. I love the guy, and every year, he just keeps giving back to the University. The recent deodorant/boxing commercial with the SU t-shirt is awesome. But, he plays an easily criticizable (?) style. When he's hot, it's a thing of beauty. When he's not, it's ugly and kills the team. I can't think of any other player who has that sort of effect, with such profound significance. It may be that he just trusts himself over the team concept. More likely, though, he's just got it in his head that he's competing against other issues — other than the opposing team. And the Lebron comparisons are in his psyche.

 

[quentin cassidy]

I think it's 4 times (2013, 2009, 2010, and 2006) but I'm not sure that is a defense of Melo. Usually the elite players are favored in round 1 of the playoffs. (Though Chris Paul is starting to look like Melo a little in this repsect. I think the dude is one of the best in the game but I think he's made it out of the first round only once or twice)

2006: Due to screwy seeding rules wrt division champions, the Nuggets were the #3 seed but did not have home-court advantage vs. the Clippers, since the Clippers had a better record. They were not a favorite in this series.

2010: A #4/5 toss-up series vs. the Jazz where both teams had the same regular season record. Predictably, Jerry Sloan severely outcoached Nuggets interim head coach Michael Cooper, who was filling in for George Karl while he was getting cancer treatment. This team was almost as good as the 2009 team, except the Billups was starting to show his age a bit more, but the West, as usual, was loaded that year.