when it comes to melo i think there is one question to ask

[quentin cassidy]

No one ever mentions that he never had any problems giving up the ball on the Olympic team. He was probably their best all around player. The great Lebron has how many championships? Melo has a NCAA championship, 2 gold medals and has only 1 less NBA championship. How many NBA championships do Ewing, Stockton, Malone, Barkley, and many others have. All we hear is that Melo has only gotten out of the first round now once in 10 years. They were only the favorites on 2 occasions. Too many talking heads have no clue.

On the past 2 Olympic teams, Carmelo has not been in the game during crunch time of the gold medal game when Team USA was in a tight game with Spain. In 2008, it was LeBron, Wade, Kobe, CP3 and a big man (Howard or Bosh), and in 2012, it was Love, LeBron, Durant, Kobe, and CP3. He had an important role on those teams, but 'giving up the ball' was certainly not one of them. He has a total of 13 assists in 16 games in those 2 Olympics. The reason he's generally played well is because he doesn't need to pass - plenty of PGs, plus LeBron, to handle that. The only thing they ask him to do is score, which of course is his greatest skill, especially when defenses can't focus on him when he's surrounded by other great players.

I think he'll be viewed a lot differently if he ever manages to work his way onto a 'Big 3'. I'm hoping the Knicks will be able to trade Amare's expiring contract before the 2014/15 season starts.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I am as big of a Knicks/Melo fan as anyone but I think we are building a strawman argument by saying that Melo hasn't played with anyone with talent... Iman Shumpert/JR Smith/STAT/Ray Felton... these are are legit NBA players who would get run on any team in the league. Melo's biggest problem is when the pressure of the playoffs is on, he feels like he has to take every shot and he gets this lone wolf, me against the world mentality. The best player on the Knicks these playoffs has been Felton, it was painful to see Felton get frozen out in the 3rd/4th quarter against Indiana when they lost the other night.

Smith is a team killer.

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[OrangeDW]

Some of those Denver teams were pretty stacked with Iverson, , Nene, Kenyon & Chauncey in their primes plus Andre Miller. However, similar to the Ewing years Knicks, when it was almost impossible to get by the Bulls, you had the Lakers dominating the west for many of those years. It is still hard not to argue that those Nugget teams, while perhaps not championship caliber, should have gotten out of the first round more frequently.

This Knick team is functioning very well as a unit with excellent D. Felton is playing at a very high level and Shumpert is rapidly getting back to where he was last season pre-injury. I think Priglioni should be less unselfish and score a bit more. The wildcards for the Knicks right now are that Smith is in a horrendous slump and Chandler is not yet back to his pre-injury levels. Also, Kidd hasn't made a shot in about a month. The Knicks are old and injury prone, but if Melo can overcome his sore shoulder & Smith & Tyson can get back on track they may not be the favorites, but they would have a legit shot at a title. Kenyon has been a huge pick-up. I am not sure if this team would be better off with Amare coming back or not. Miami is just not that strong after the Big 3 & perhaps can be worn down, especially if the Bulls can make this a tough series. Wade, especially, seems creaky at times.

Melo really impressed yesterday & took over the game at a critical time. I think this series is a big test for him because if he plays at a high level he should be able to lead this team past the Pacers. If he reverts to his slump & the Knicks don't advance, well then the only excuse is his sore left shoulder if you want to buy into that. If the Knicks advance to the conf finals then he will have met all reasonable expectations and anything else would be pure gravy.

Those guys weren't all on the same Denver teams though. I mean, Miller was in the Iverson trade. And then Iverson for Billups, I believe.

Nene'...every good team has a Nene, he's nothing special. Those Denver teams generally did what they were supposed to. Made the playoffs and lost to somebody better and more talented.

 

[OrangeDW]

Smith is a team killer.

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I'm not even a Knicks fan, and he still pisses me off every time I watch them. Every time he catches the ball in a situation where he should immediately make a quick pass to the open shooter and instead takes 2-3 dribbles and goes nowhere, it drives me nuts. He has no basketball IQ at all.

 

[jordoo]

I have not read this thread just so in case I repeat anyone.
1. Lebron is a better all around player than Melo. Fact (one that I hate and I still feel Melo shoulda been rook of he year)
2. Melo has never played with any two players in their prime as good as Wade and Bosh like Lebron had last year.
3. Melo is THE BEST SCORER in the world as shown in the olympics on the most stacked offensive team there was where he stuck out and was the key player offensively over Durrant and James.
4. Melo IMO doesn't get the whistles James and Durrant do which really presses his jumper.

 

[SUskibum]

Another Melo vs Lebron thread. This is never talked about. I think the best player Melo ever played with is Gerry McNamara.

Weird how he won a championship that year

 

[quentin cassidy]

3. Melo is THE BEST SCORER in the world as shown in the olympics on the most stacked offensive team there was where he stuck out and was the key player offensively over Durrant and James.

Have you ever heard of a stat called TS%? ( TS% = Pts / (2*FGA+.88*FTA))

Kevin Durant had a TS% of 65% this year, which is basically the highest TS% in history for a guy who shoots as much as he does. LeBron's was 64%, also historically off-the-charts.

Melo's was 56%, which is respectable considering his role on the team, but pretty average among 25ppg+ scorers.
Essentially, every time Durant/LeBron take a shot, they score 1.3 pts. Melo, Wade, Kobe, Pierce, etc average about 1.1 points per shot. That difference alone is worth about 4 points a game, which is huge over the course of a season.

Oh yeah, Durant was also the leading scorer on the Olympic team. Melo had one game where he hit like 10 threes in 15 minutes against a terrible team, but Durant and LeBron were the best players on that team, too.

 

[jordoo]

Have you ever heard of a stat called TS%? ( TS% = Pts / (2*FGA+.88*FTA))

Kevin Durant had a TS% of 65% this year, which is basically the highest TS% in history for a guy who shoots as much as he does. LeBron's was 64%, also historically off-the-charts.

Melo's was 56%, which is respectable considering his role on the team, but pretty average among 25ppg+ scorers.
Essentially, every time Durant/LeBron take a shot, they 8.10468+5006915477599177419412111117774777799999999477)591score 1.3 pts. Melo, Wade, Kobe, Pierce, etc average about 1.1 points per shot. That difference worth about 4 points a game, which is huge over the course of a season.

Oh yeah, Durant was also the leading scorer on the Olympic team. Melo had one game where he hit like 10 threes in 15 minutes against a terrible team, but Durant and LeBron were also the best players on that team.

Wow super stats! Melo made that the team tick on offense and that is from my eyes. The coach's put him in that roll because that is also what they saw. I didn't say best player I said best scorer which he is IMO if ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL which they most certainly are not. Durant is treated with kid gloves cause he's he's skinny. James is one of the most blatant actors in the game.

 

[LennX6]

On the past 2 Olympic teams, Carmelo has not been in the game during crunch time of the gold medal game when Team USA was in a tight game with Spain. In 2008, it was LeBron, Wade, Kobe, CP3 and a big man (Howard or Bosh), and in 2012, it was Love, LeBron, Durant, Kobe, and CP3. He had an important role on those teams, but 'giving up the ball' was certainly not one of them. He has a total of 13 assists in 16 games in those 2 Olympics. The reason he's generally played well is because he doesn't need to pass - plenty of PGs, plus LeBron, to handle that. The only thing they ask him to do is score, which of course is his greatest skill, especially when defenses can't focus on him when he's surrounded by other great players.

I think he'll be viewed a lot differently if he ever manages to work his way onto a 'Big 3'. I'm hoping the Knicks will be able to trade Amare's expiring contract before the 2014/15 season starts.

Or better yet, if not a Big 3, being the Malone part of Stockton/Malone or the Worthy part of Magic/Worthy. Don't you think a Westbrook/Anthony or a Rondo/Anthony combo wouldn't be sweet?

 

[quentin cassidy]

Or better yet, if not a Big 3, being the Malone part of Stockton/Malone or the Worthy part of Magic/Worthy. Don't you think a Westbrook/Anthony or a Rondo/Anthony combo wouldn't be sweet?

it would, and chris paul would be even better.

 

[44cuse]

No one ever mentions that he never had any problems giving up the ball on the Olympic team. He was probably their best all around player. The great Lebron has how many championships? Melo has a NCAA championship, 2 gold medals and has only 1 less NBA championship. How many NBA championships do Ewing, Stockton, Malone, Barkley, and many others have. All we hear is that Melo has only gotten out of the first round now once in 10 years. They were only the favorites on 2 occasions. Too many talking heads have no clue.

"Probably?" No question what so ever. Melo is ridiculous in the international game.

44cuse

 

[NineOneSeven]

People who have done more with less:

1.Lebron taking the cavs to the finals
2.iverson going to the finals with the sixers

 

[NineOneSeven]

Chandler, right. I need the face smacking icon.

Tyson Chandler is responsible for more second chance possessions than any other player in the league. Guess who probably took most of those second chance shots?

 

[Fireball Jr.]

People who have done more with less:

1.Lebron taking the cavs to the finals
2.iverson going to the finals with the sixers

Meanwhile, in tonight's blowout...

 

[NineOneSeven]

Meanwhile, in tonight's blowout...

Only cowards make that bounce pass to that traitor ray Allen!

 

[Fireball Jr.]

And another ... this is team basketball --- and great passing.

 

[Knicks411]

2006: Due to screwy seeding rules wrt division champions, the Nuggets were the #3 seed but did not have home-court advantage vs. the Clippers, since the Clippers had a better record. They were not a favorite in this series.

Sorry about that, fair point, I was just going by basketball ref. my fault.

 

[Knicks411]

And another ... this is team basketball --- and great passing.

He really is an unbelievable passer.

I said it in a different thread (at least I think it was a different thread) when Lebron loses a step or two, I think he's going to become more of a full time post up 4 and he's going to shred defenses up. (I also think this is what would've happened to Magic he didn't have to retire)

 

[OrangeDW]

He really is an unbelievable passer.

I said it in a different thread (at least I think it was a different thread) when Lebron loses a step or two, I think he's going to become more of a full time post up 4 and he's going to shred defenses up. (I also think this is what would've happened to Magic he didn't have to retire)

Yeah, that pretty much is what Magic did briefly, when he came back in '96. To play as well as he did after being out for 5 years, and for being 36 and kind've fat at that point, was impressive.

 

[jordoo]

Meanwhile, in tonight's blowout...

Its pretty cool when your roll players are the best 3pt shooters of all time along with your two fellow multiple all star starters!!
Woot Woot! Who has Meklo played woth that hasn't been worse without him?

 

[quentin cassidy]

Wow super stats! Melo made that the team tick on offense and that is from my eyes. The coach's put him in that roll because that is also what they saw. I didn't say best player I said best scorer which he is IMO if ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL which they most certainly are not. Durant is treated with kid gloves cause he's he's skinny. James is one of the most blatant actors in the game.

Some people have trouble seeing clearly through orange-colored glasses. Melo complains to the refs at least as much, if not more, than KD and LeBron.

With Westbrook out, Durant's supporting cast is no better than Melo's, and Durant is absolutely tearing it up in the playoffs. Still shooting 49% vs. 39% for Melo. Melo can have great games (like he had last night) that are every bit as good as Durant's great games, but he's not as consistent.

I will always root for Melo and I hope he gets a ring some day to get the media off his back, but people like you who think he's a better scorer than LeBron and Durant are the reason he gets scrutinized so much...

 

[44cuse]

Well, Lebron made it TO the finals with a team full-o bums. If Carmelo did that, the heat would be off. But, it's not really even a matter of making it that far. It's the way Carmelo plays, and the fact that he came into the league concurrent with the league's best player, and at similar size/skills.

Carmelo's problem is style of play. A better coach would help him, but it would take a very commanding presence — Phil, Riley, Popovich — to change his ways. I love the guy, and every year, he just keeps giving back to the University. The recent deodorant/boxing commercial with the SU t-shirt is awesome. But, he plays an easily criticizable (?) style. When he's hot, it's a thing of beauty. When he's not, it's ugly and kills the team. I can't think of any other player who has that sort of effect, with such profound significance. It may be that he just trusts himself over the team concept. More likely, though, he's just got it in his head that he's competing against other issues — other than the opposing team. And the Lebron comparisons are in his psyche.

The post should be etched into this site and listed in every Carmelo post.

44cuse

 

[Zelda Zonk]

The post should be etched into this site and listed in every Carmelo post.

44cuse

Well, thank you, sir.

I do think it is a valid point to suggest that Melo may have been playing with some talented teammates, but who from Denver or the Knicks is a hall of famer? Teams that win the whole kit and kaboodle tend to have at least two. Kobe/Shaq, Wade/Shaq, Lebron/Wade, Duncan/Ginobli(?), Jordan/Pippen. I don't think Durant's going to get there without Westbrook.

Durant is more efficient. He, like a number of players (Curry, tonight) can have off games, but because they don't dominate and freeze the ball, they're not going to warrant the harsh criticisms.

 

[PoppyHart]

I don't think we should be praising anyone for sharing the ball on the Olympic team. That's like praising Billy Joel for not hogging the microphone on We Are The World.

 

[CaptainJ]

who is the best player he has played with? LeBron is fantastic of course, but to win a title he pouted, left Cleveland, and played with wade and bosh in their primes. Carmelo has never played with anyone close to as good as either. my question, who is the best he has played with? he has always been batman, but he has never had a robin. look at the heat, they have 2 batmen.

Off the top of my head I can't answer the 2 best at the same time... but what I do know is that often when I am posting on here, I Am The Joker.