Where does SU's 2015 recruiting class rank

[Finwad32]

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootb...n_the_country_or_do_the_o.html#incart_m-rpt-2

Nobody aggravates me like Brian Dohn. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for years, but, I can't anymore. It's not just this one article, it's the culmination of many things. After much debate, I cancelled my subscription to TOS this morning.

 

[TheCusian]

I hate this kind of analysis. The right question to ask is: Did we outplay our recruiting ranking over the last few years? If we did - what does that mean when we have a bump in our recruiting rankings last year and this one? They are right in that it won't be enough to overtake FSU and Clemson. But Louisville? Do your homework - we were .500 against them with mediocre classes.

Also - the whole article misses why we have so many early recruits: the possibility of an early signing period and getting a jump on 2016.

 

[Finwad32]

I hate this kind of analysis. The right question to ask is: Did we outplay our recruiting ranking over the last few years? If we did - what does that mean when we have a bump in our recruiting rankings last year and this one? They are right in that it won't be enough to overtake FSU and Clemson. But Louisville? Do your homework - we were .500 against them with mediocre classes.

Also - the whole article misses why we have so many early recruits: the possibility of an early signing period and getting a jump on 2016.

One of my biggest aggravations, classes like this won't be able to take over the Louisville's, Miami's, VT's and North Carolina's of the world. First off, as you said, Louisville has been a push with perceived lesser classes and last time I checked the other three aren't in our division.

It's just lazy journalism, from Dohn and from Carlson.

Not only that, but, he speaks as if the rankings lead to a definitive outcome on the football field.

 

[HtownOrange]

It's easy to dog the schools that are or have been down. Keep kicking them. To be fair, they have one point that Syracuse hasn't "proven" they are wrong until Syracuse wins consistently and takes some big games. HCSS has the Orange moving in the right direction, let everyone underestimate this team, it's working well so far.

 

[007]

One of my biggest aggravations, classes like this won't be able to take over the Louisville's, Miami's, VT's and North Carolina's of the world. First off, as you said, Louisville has been a push with perceived lesser classes and last time I checked the other three aren't in our division.

It's just lazy journalism, from Dohn and from Carlson.

Not only that, but, he speaks as if the rankings lead to a definitive outcome on the football field.

Not so sure Carlson needs to be thrown under the "lazy journalism" bus for that article. It seemed like a pretty balanced looked at rankings, recruiting services, and the correlation, if any, to results on the field.

In fact, Carslon noted that:
"Numbers show that programs can win regularly, and even frequently win division titles in the ACC, without recruiting at an elite level. But they also show it's extremely difficult to win an ACC championship without top-level talent."

The link in that statement provides some data to support those claims.

 

[xc84]

"If any of my guys come in and tell me this guy is 4-stars on this site or that site, I tell them I don't want to hear it," Shafer said.

There's that and the fact that we are almost done recruiting and it is July. These kids have yet to play a down in their senior year. What "analyst" really knows how good they are? Are there any that really evaluate the kids as much as coaches...especially from their junior year?

 

[memcorsu]

I am not to worried what these analyst think. Their concern is with bigger name teams; their business focuses on subscriptions and recruiting hotbeds. Syracuse is perceived as having neither right now. I would consider us on a Boise State trajectory. Their coaches were obviously great at finding the talent and type of player that would fit their program. Mostly two and three stars "diamonds in the rough". Once we win more and get more into the national spotlight, these guys will spend more time evaluating our players because there will be more eyeballs on the program. The statements that they are making is completely conjecture. They are unsure so they are surmising about what we are doing as a program (i.e. very "ho-hum comments) IMHO we are going to come to the end of a season in the near future and everyone will be surprised what just happened (ala. Boise State).

Just think about how a house is built. It takes forever to get the foundation, the most important part, created, sound, and straight. It is the part that is least noticeable or glamorous and often complained about the most because the perception that their is not momentum or progress being made. Once that foundation is in place, it never fails, how fast the walls, roof, drywall, rest of the house goes up and people are, "wow...look at those guy's fly...what progress... etc..." We have been building a foundation; when the rest of the house starts going up we are going to be shocked. We have the right staff and getting the right players. Bigger and better will come, and yes we need bigger and better to compete at the top level. I would suggest we are a tier 2 program in our conference right now.

I think Devante Davis is a great example of what the coaches are seeing. He was average until he committed now he is a "stud" cause he got a lot more offers poring in? I am not saying all of our recruits are like that. I would suggest, from our history, more of our players are underrated than what they want to give credit for (not 5 stars but kids who are under recruited and could play anywhere) . I whole heartily disagree with the fact that we are where we are in recruiting as not a big deal. It is a huge deal! For that to be said is pure laziness and homerism.

 

[Finwad32]

Not so sure Carlson needs to be thrown under the "lazy journalism" bus for that article. It seemed like a pretty balanced looked at rankings, recruiting services, and the correlation, if any, to results on the field.

In fact, Carslon noted that:
"Numbers show that programs can win regularly, and even frequently win division titles in the ACC, without recruiting at an elite level. But they also show it's extremely difficult to win an ACC championship without top-level talent."

The link in that statement provides some data to support those claims.

I'll jump off Carlson a little bit because overall he put together a decent article with multiple sources. But, there were a couple of points in the article that I believe could've and should've been done differently. IMO he's using quotes to ram home a point.

-Saying Shafer has taken a "cynical" approach to the rankings and making it seem like that's because Syracuse has been at the bottom of the rankings.

- Dohn pointed out that Syracuse is rarely beating out P5 conference teams for recruits in their own backyard? What's rarely and what's backyard? Specify and rebuff or strengthen the claim. I know that on a national level we're beating a lot more P5 teams than 5 years ago, I'd be willing to wager over 80% of our recruits/commits have other P5 offers. That's why I ask what is our backyard?

- Then the Louisville quote, please, rankings don't quantify wins/losses. And, if you think it's okay that he put a half hearted disclaimer in half an article away that says you can win regularly/frequently but not ACC titles, then I disagree. Furthermore, he could've corrected him there... We're only one season removed from the Big East, I'm sure he remembers our last Louisville game.

Again, overall I think it's a decent article. But I think he's using quotes to strengthen an opinion instead of reporting from all angles and letting the reader formulate their own. My main hang up was with Dohn.

 

[Full_Rebar]

The bigger problem is the reliance on "rankings" by fans and media. It has created a huge industry from recruiting analysts to all of these scouting combines and 7v7 tournaments where HS kids must go to be seen (this goes beyond football). The perception that you have to have x number of stars or be ranked in a certain number is crazy, and unfortunately it plays into the decision-making process for others.

It's not limited to college either. This week's MMQB had some great thoughts from Chip Kelly about the hype of the NFL Draft and how ridiculous it has become. He said he read some experts say if the Eagles top two picks were flipped this year, their draft grade would go from C to A and Kelly wondered how could that matter if they were getting the same guys.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Im not a big Dohn guy but I dont think he said anything that shocking. I think we all know we can still make even bigger strides in recruiting and as many good players aswe have committed a lot of them are light on other offers. We just need to keep at it as the one analyst said its a marathon not a sprint.

 

[Rocco]

Dohn likes to chop wood. He will always hate Syracuse, along with Mike Farrell.

 

[baggerbob]

This years class was never going to be highly ranked, but I'm very happy with it. The staff went out , and got the road graders this year, the grunts, who are the foundation for any great team. The 5 guys in the middle seldom get the glory, but without them, the skilled guys can't make plays. Jim Brown always took his offensive line out to dinner after the season, when he was with Cleveland.

 

[PhatOrange]

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootb...n_the_country_or_do_the_o.html#incart_m-rpt-2

Nobody aggravates me like Brian Dohn. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for years, but, I can't anymore. It's not just this one article, it's the culmination of many things. After much debate, I cancelled my subscription to TOS this morning.

Dont be fooled, Dohn is a Buttgers writer.

 

[PhatOrange]

- Dohn pointed out that Syracuse is rarely beating out P5 conference teams for recruits in their own backyard? What's rarely and what's backyard? Specify and rebuff or strengthen the claim. I know that on a national level we're beating a lot more P5 teams than 5 years ago, I'd be willing to wager over 80% of our recruits/commits have other P5 offers. That's why I ask what is our backyard?

There's really only a few blue chip kids' in the state who go elsewhere every year. Even though he is right, it's still a pretty stupid statement because it doesn't mean anything in a state that produces less than 5 multi P5 offered kids every year.

2014 - samuel, holley, hays, ollison
2013 - ogundeko, edwards, smith, officer
2012 - kelly, lynch, jones, wayne morgan (Cuse)
2011 - williams, borcich, cajuste, reddish (Cuse)

 

[PhatOrange]

In general this class will end up woefully rated and imho not near as good top to bottom as last year's class.

 

[retro44]

I judge them by the wins and losses every year.

I am not an expert on how to judge them on a talent level coming out of high school...that is a fact

 

[HeaterCuse22]

I'll jump off Carlson a little bit because overall he put together a decent article with multiple sources. But, there were a couple of points in the article that I believe could've and should've been done differently. IMO he's using quotes to ram home a point.

-Saying Shafer has taken a "cynical" approach to the rankings and making it seem like that's because Syracuse has been at the bottom of the rankings.

- Dohn pointed out that Syracuse is rarely beating out P5 conference teams for recruits in their own backyard? What's rarely and what's backyard? Specify and rebuff or strengthen the claim. I know that on a national level we're beating a lot more P5 teams than 5 years ago, I'd be willing to wager over 80% of our recruits/commits have other P5 offers. That's why I ask what is our backyard?

- Then the Louisville quote, please, rankings don't quantify wins/losses. And, if you think it's okay that he put a half hearted disclaimer in half an article away that says you can win regularly/frequently but not ACC titles, then I disagree. Furthermore, he could've corrected him there... We're only one season removed from the Big East, I'm sure he remembers our last Louisville game.

Again, overall I think it's a decent article. But I think he's using quotes to strengthen an opinion instead of reporting from all angles and letting the reader formulate their own. My main hang up was with Dohn.

How many top 15 recruits does Chopnation have out of NJ this year?

 

[HeaterCuse22]

There's really only a few blue chip kids' in the state who go elsewhere every year. Even though he is right, it's still a pretty stupid statement because it doesn't mean anything in a state that produces less than 5 multi P5 offered kids every year.

2014 - samuel, holley, hays, ollison
2013 - ogundeko, edwards, smith, officer ***Important to note that we had a coaching change at the last possible moment that may have effected this class
2012 - kelly, lynch, jones, wayne morgan (Cuse)
2011 - williams, borcich, cajuste, reddish (Cuse)