Who are Syracuse football's best QBs and where does Eric Dungey rank?

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Finwad32]

I, uh, I'm not sure how I feel about this list yet... Guess I've gotta process, based on their measuring points... I think I'd put both Nassib & Dungey (losses be damned) ahead of Graves.

I tend to look at things almost purely statistically. It's not the best barometer, but, I'm a numbers guy.

And Patterson ahead of Troy & RJ I don't think I'm on board with at all.

 

[elimunelson]

Ahead of Graves? Wow. Maybe I’m romanticizing the early 90s but felt like Marvin commanded those teams and was as responsible for those wins as any other person. His 1993 season was upsetting but it went sideways quickly and is a present day bowl season

 

[jr4750]

Not gonna lie, that is a very depressing list. The fact that some of those guys are in the top 15 QB's is amazing. SU has played football since 1889, and that's our best of the best? Yikes. I literally couldn't wait for RJ, Perry and Troy to leave. Paulus, all credit to him, hadn't picked up a football in 4 years, played one year for a 4-8 team, and is on that list. That's beyond sad. McNabb, Donnie, Graves, those names feel like winners, and of course were. Philcox, eh I guess he had an NFL career. Terrell Hunt, good guy, but I can't remember anything other than the punch he threw.

 

[Nahson]

1.) Tommy Devito
2. Eric Dungey
3.) Cam Dantley
4.) Mookie Jones
5.) Andrew Robinson

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yes, but who is Eric Dungey, really?

I wish they spent some time exploring that question.

Friggin' journos.

 

[Trueblue25]

Not gonna lie, that is a very depressing list. The fact that some of those guys are in the top 15 QB's is amazing. SU has played football since 1889, and that's our best of the best? Yikes. I literally couldn't wait for RJ, Perry and Troy to leave. Paulus, all credit to him, hadn't picked up a football in 4 years, played one year for a 4-8 team, and is on that list. That's beyond sad. McNabb, Donnie, Graves, those names feel like winners, and of course were. Philcox, eh I guess he had an NFL career. Terrell Hunt, good guy, but I can't remember anything other than the punch he threw.

 

[Scooch]

Seems like a fair ranking.

Mostly that list depresses the hell out of me. Some of that top 10?... Ooof.

Also, there is no way I would put Dungey or Nassib ahead of Graves. Marvin won 3 bowl MVPs. His stats are also better than Nassib's if you adjust for the era/style of offense and # of pass attempts.

Graves: 59.7% completion rate, 8466 yards, 9.0 YPA, 48 TDs, 45 INTs, 142.4 Passer Rating, 17 rushing TDs
Nassib: 60.3% completion rate, 9190 yards, 7.0 YPA, 70 TDs, 28 INTs, 132.5 Passer Rating, 5 rushing TDs

 

[Chip]

I, uh, I'm not sure how I feel about this list yet... Guess I've gotta process, based on their measuring points... I think I'd put both Nassib & Dungey (losses be damned) ahead of Graves.

I tend to look at things almost purely statistically. It's not the best barometer, but, I'm a numbers guy.

And Patterson ahead of Troy & RJ I don't think I'm on board with at all.

Agree on Nunes and RJ ahead of Patterson.

Disagree on Nassib or Dungey ahead of Graves. He is often forgotten, probably because McNabb came so soon after, and because that last year was a bit of a disaster by 1993 program standards. But it wasn't the passing game that held that team back. Couldn't run, couldn't stop the run (without Conley). Graves was awesome to watch in action.

 

[RF2044]

Seems like a fair ranking.

Mostly that list depresses the hell out of me. Some of that top 10?... Ooof.

Also, there is no way I would put Dungey or Nassib ahead of Graves. Marvin won 3 bowl MVPs. His stats are also better than Nassib's if you adjust for the era/style of offense and # of pass attempts.

Graves: 59.7% completion rate, 8466 yards, 9.0 YPA, 48 TDs, 45 INTs, 142.4 Passer Rating, 17 rushing TDs
Nassib: 60.3% completion rate, 9190 yards, 7.0 YPA, 70 TDs, 28 INTs, 132.5 Passer Rating, 5 rushing TDs

Not to mention, Graves was a two-time All-American, and universally considered one of the best QBs in college football during his career.

 

[Finwad32]

Ahead of Graves? Wow. Maybe I’m romanticizing the early 90s but felt like Marvin commanded those teams and was as responsible for those wins as any other person. His 1993 season was upsetting but it went sideways quickly and is a present day bowl season

He never did it for me... 4 year starter with 48 career TD passes who never rushed for more than 155 in a season in an option offense. And I know it was a different era.

Yes, they went to bowl games. But those teams were loaded with talent that extended way beyond the QB.

I personally think he was over-rated.

Two 10-W campaigns and the Fiesta Bowl are tremendous achievements. And he was co-MVP of the Fiesta, even though I think the only thing he really did was the TD Run. I think Walker and Dar Dar had the big plays that day if I can recall.

 

[RF2044]

He never did it for me... 4 year starter with 48 career TD passes who never rushed for more than 155 in a season in an option offense. And I know it was a different era.

Yes, they went to bowl games. But those teams were loaded with talent that extended way beyond the QB.

I personally think he was over-rated.

Two 10-W campaigns and the Fiesta Bowl are tremendous achievements. And he was co-MVP of the Fiesta, even though I think the only thing he really did was the TD Run. I think Walker and Dar Dar had the big plays that day if I can recall.

Man -- if anything, I think Graves is UNDERRATED, due to his senior year being a dud [after we were ranked top 5 preseason]. I think that tarnished his legacy somewhat, and that he doesn't get his due.

I think that the "different era" factor makes focusing exclusively on the stats alone a poor way to compare. [in general -- not directed at you specifically, Finwad -- as you know, I'm a huge fan of your contributions here].

 

[MG44]

i say hes the #10 ranked QB and the #1 ranked warrior! Marvin Graves is the #2 ranked warrior for beaning that WVU player in the head...id follow either of these guys into battle any day of the week (not that they need the back up of a 50 yr old fat guy )

 

[Scooch]

In '92 Graves was among the best QBs in CFB. Nationally he was 1st in YPA, 2nd in passer rating, 9th in completion %, 11th in rushing TDs.

In '93, the "disappointing" year, he ranked 5th in YPA, 18th in passer rating, 22nd in completion %, 3rd in rushing TDs.

He stacked up incredibly favorably against QBs of his time.

 

[Finwad32]

In '92 Graves was among the best QBs in CFB. Nationally he was 1st in YPA, 2nd in passer rating, 9th in completion %, 11th in rushing TDs.

In '93, the "disappointing" year, he ranked 5th in YPA, 18th in passer rating, 22nd in completion %, 3rd in rushing TDs.

He stacked up incredibly favorably against QBs of his time.

Not to be contrarian, as I know era matters, but YPA means nothing. a 14/12 TD/Int. ratio doesn't come across to me as stellar. 5 or 6 Rushing TD's on 140ish yards for the season? Tells me that those were probably of the Sneak/Power variety.

I get it, people love him. I don't and never did really.

 

[Finwad32]

Man -- if anything, I think Graves is UNDERRATED, due to his senior year being a dud [after we were ranked top 5 preseason]. I think that tarnished his legacy somewhat, and that he doesn't get his due.

I think that the "different era" factor makes focusing exclusively on the stats alone a poor way to compare. [in general -- not directed at you specifically, Finwad -- as you know, I'm a huge fan of your contributions here].

My last vivid memory of Graves is WV thumping us 43-0 in our house. I watched, devastated from the South end zone. So maybe there's some validity to your thought, as it pertains to me anyways.

I'm going to get crushed all day, but, I never liked him as a QB. I thought he rode the coat tails of some great WR's/TE's & stellar RB's. Not to mention, for the majority of his career, the defense in front of him was just sick.

I appreciate it man!

 

[Finwad32]

Agree on Nunes and RJ ahead of Patterson.

Disagree on Nassib or Dungey ahead of Graves. He is often forgotten, probably because McNabb came so soon after, and because that last year was a bit of a disaster by 1993 program standards. But it wasn't the passing game that held that team back. Couldn't run, couldn't stop the run (without Conley). Graves was awesome to watch in action.

Appreciate the perspective, I do, but I just wasn't a fan. And those were prime years for me, his Jr. & Sr. season were the first years that I had season tix available through my family and friends. We tailgated night and day at the church on University & Marshall that's now a parking garage. Very fond memories of the era, not as much of him.

 

[elimunelson]

My last vivid memory of Graves is WV thumping us 43-0 in our house. I watched, devastated from the South end zone. So maybe there's some validity to your thought, as it pertains to me anyways.

I'm going to get crushed all day, but, I never liked him as a QB. I thought he rode the coat tails of some great WR's/TE's & stellar RB's. Not to mention, for the majority of his career, the defense in front of him was just sick.

I appreciate it man!

I guess the question for me comes down to: What would have another peer qb done with those Orange teams? He went 33-12-3 in his 4 seasons, won 10 games 2x. If we think Drew Bledsoe or Rick Mirer (just two guys from the same era) go 41-4-3 i'm all ears.

He made the proverbial putt as the floor general of great Orange teams. If we sub in Nassib for Graves on those teams, i'm thinking we aren't winning 33 games. Nassib became Nassib essentially in year 4. Graves was good in year 1.

 

[Finwad32]

I guess the question for me comes down to: What would have another peer qb done with those Orange teams? He went 33-12-3 in his 4 seasons, won 10 games 2x. If we think Drew Bledsoe or Rick Mirer (just two guys from the same era) go 41-4-3 i'm all ears.

He made the proverbial putt as the floor general of great Orange teams. If we sub in Nassib for Graves on those teams, i'm thinking we aren't winning 33 games. Nassib became Nassib essentially in year 4. Graves was good in year 1.

9 tuddies and 11 pics in year 1 aren't great imo... Neither is 155 rushing yards for an option QB...

I know man, we won, but it wasn't off Graves back in my opinion.

Freshman Eric Dungey kicks a primo Chuck Norris in the nads in '90

 

[elimunelson]

9 tuddies and 11 pics in year 1 aren't great imo... Neither is 155 rushing yards for an option QB...

I know man, we won, but it wasn't off Graves back in my opinion.

Freshman Eric Dungey kicks a primo Chuck Norris in the nads in '90

What's your take on Kevin Mason. almost 400 rushing yards, 8 rushing tds with a team that was pretty mediocre.

 

[GoSU96]

My last vivid memory of Graves is WV thumping us 43-0 in our house. I watched, devastated from the South end zone. So maybe there's some validity to your thought, as it pertains to me anyways.

I'm going to get crushed all day, but, I never liked him as a QB. I thought he rode the coat tails of some great WR's/TE's & stellar RB's. Not to mention, for the majority of his career, the defense in front of him was just sick.

I appreciate it man!

His back was a mess his senior year. #3 is where he belongs until there's another QB that wins at his level.

 

[Finwad32]

What's your take on Kevin Mason. almost 400 rushing yards, 8 rushing tds with a team that was pretty mediocre.

He was a more productive QB in the 1 year he got. I think he threw it decent, cant remember, on a worse team.

 

[GoSU96]

I'd drop Perry behind RJ and Troy, and maybe flip those two, but that list looks right to me. Dungey can easily move up with a productive and winning year.

 

[Finwad32]

His back was a mess his senior year. #3 is where he belongs until there's another QB that wins at his level.

Respect it for sure, just don't agree... I'm not going to attribute all those wins to him. And I really think that's the only reason he's remembered so fondly.

 

[Scooch]

Not to be contrarian, as I know era matters, but YPA means nothing. a 14/12 TD/Int. ratio doesn't come across to me as stellar. 5 or 6 Rushing TD's on 140ish yards for the season? Tells me that those were probably of the Sneak/Power variety.

I get it, people love him. I don't and never did really.

I was just putting his stats in context of his era. There were precious few QBs who were as productive as he was back in the early 90s.

I mean in 1992, of the 82 QBs who qualified, there were only 7 who had a better completion %.

Even his 14 passing TDs, which you say is paltry, ranked 29th. That means nearly two-thirds of college QBs had fewer TDs.

And I will argue that YPA mattered a LOT in the Pasqualoni/DeLeone offense of that era. Paul wanted 200 passing yards and 200 rushing yards each game, but he demanded that his QBs hit that 200 passing yard total on a relatively tiny amount of attempts.