Who are Syracuse football's best QBs and where does Eric Dungey rank?

[Chip]

Appreciate the perspective, I do, but I just wasn't a fan. And those were prime years for me, his Jr. & Sr. season were the first years that I had season tix available through my family and friends. We tailgated night and day at the church on University & Marshall that's now a parking garage. Very fond memories of the era, not as much of him.

I think a little bit of me just died.

 

[djorange1989]

where's Cecil The Diesel?!!! this list sucks

 

[Finwad32]

I was just putting his stats in context of his era. There were precious few QBs who were as productive as he was back in the early 90s.

I mean in 1992, of the 82 QBs who qualified, there were only 7 who had a better completion %.

Even his 14 passing TDs, which you say is paltry, ranked 29th. That means nearly two-thirds of college QBs had fewer TDs.

And I will argue that YPA mattered a LOT in the Pasqualoni/DeLeone offense of that era. Paul wanted 200 passing yards and 200 rushing yards each game, but he demanded that his QBs hit that 200 passing yard total on a relatively tiny amount of attempts.

Context matters, it does... And I know my opinion is overwhelmingly in the minority. I'd argue that the YPA should've been higher because of the number of shots we took as an option team with play action.

 

[Scooch]

Context matters, it does... And I know my opinion is overwhelmingly in the minority. I'd argue that the YPA should've been higher because of the number of shots we took as an option team with play action.

His YPA was top 7 in every year he played, and top 5 his last three years. Not sure how much better one could expect him to be there.

 

[Finwad32]

#1!

 

[Finwad32]

Just as an FYI - Dan Conley is crushing me right now on my opinion... He'd know, I suppose.

His input - If Marvin was born 4 years later, he would've been an NFL player all day...

"Real deal".

 

[ForeverOrange]

I may have revisionist history, but for some reason, I feel like Kevin Mason should be somewhere on this list. I know his time was short coming in behind I believe Graves, but people didn't expect much from that team.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I may have revisionist history, but for some reason, I feel like Kevin Mason should be somewhere on this list. I know his time was short coming in behind I believe Graves, but people didn't expect much from that team.

Mason was the QB of the first SU team I really understood as a football fan, if that makes sense.

Didn't he get wrecked by BC or something?

I thought he was pretty solid.

 

[anomander]

I have only watched since the mid 80's so i won't rank players i haven't seen play.

1. McNabb
2. McPherson
3. Graves
4. Nassib
5. Dungey
6. Philcox

the rest don't deserve to be rated as an all-time great

 

[Scooch]

Mason was the QB of the first SU team I really understood as a football fan, if that makes sense.

Didn't he get wrecked by BC or something?

I thought he was pretty solid.

It was a strange year. Lost a winnable opener against a down Oklahoma team, won 6 straight after to get to a #10 ranking, then lost a competitive game against Miami, then utter collapse in getting shut out in 2 of our last 3.

Mason was OK but i think P & D were scared to death of him throwing the ball. We averaged 17 pass attempts per game that year vs. 47 rush attempts.

Fun fact: we averaged 47,746 per home game, including a sellout vs. Miami. Talk about a different time for the program.

 

[RF2044]

I have only watched since the mid 80's so i won't rank players i haven't seen play.

1. McNabb
2. McPherson
3. Graves
4. Nassib
5. Dungey
6. Philcox

the rest don't deserve to be rated as an all-time great

That list and your final sentence are both spot-on.

Apropos of Dungey and his placement on the list, he has the opportunity to move up with a big senior year, enhancing his legacy and his positioning on the pantheon. Being fifth [as you've rated him] "feels" right given his capabilities, but some of that is projection. If he actualizes his potential and stays healthy this year, it will make for a lively debate about where he ranks on that list.

 

[Eric15]

Not to mention, Graves was a two-time All-American, and universally considered one of the best QBs in college football during his career.

I loved Graves, but are you sure he was a two-time All-American? I could be wrong, I just don't recall him being one and he isn't on this list.

 

[Chip]

It was a strange year. Lost a winnable opener against a down Oklahoma team, won 6 straight after to get to a #10 ranking, then lost a competitive game against Miami, then utter collapse in getting shut out in 2 of our last 3.

Mason was OK but i think P & D were scared to death of him throwing the ball. We averaged 17 pass attempts per game that year vs. 47 rush attempts.

Fun fact: we averaged 47,746 per home game, including a sellout vs. Miami. Talk about a different time for the program.

Place used to rock. Was deafening during some of those Miami games.

And yeah, 1994 was a weird year. Committed to reestablishing the run, which we did. Mason would hit Harrison to keep defenses honest. Conley's extra year was so huge for the defense. Things were rolling up until about halftime of that Miami game. And then the wheels just fell off the bus. That BC game was one of the most one sided games I've ever seen, at least for an SU game where College Gameday wasn't present. Hard to believe, in hindsight, that they only beat us by 31.

 

[RF2044]

Place used to rock. Was deafening during some of those Miami games.

And yeah, 1994 was a weird year. Committed to reestablishing the run, which we did. Mason would hit Harrison to keep defenses honest. Conley's extra year was so huge for the defense. Things were rolling up until about halftime of that Miami game. And then the wheels just fell off the bus. That BC game was one of the most one sided games I've ever seen, at least for an SU game where College Gameday wasn't present. Hard to believe, in hindsight, that they only beat us by 31.

Made mike mamula's "career"

 

[Scooch]

Place used to rock. Was deafening during some of those Miami games.

And yeah, 1994 was a weird year. Committed to reestablishing the run, which we did. Mason would hit Harrison to keep defenses honest. Conley's extra year was so huge for the defense. Things were rolling up until about halftime of that Miami game. And then the wheels just fell off the bus. That BC game was one of the most one sided games I've ever seen, at least for an SU game where College Gameday wasn't present. Hard to believe, in hindsight, that they only beat us by 31.

I took a picture of the scoreboard at halftime of the Miami game since we were leading (6-3!) and I figured it probably wouldn't last. It didn't.

I was at that BC game. Highlight was that someone(s) spray painted the eagle statue outside Alumni Stadium orange. It was all downhill from there.

I also recall that for the season-ending WVU game we were told all SU had to do was show some offense and be competitive and we'd get a bowl bid. Of course we lost 13-0, looked pathetic, and there was no bowl bid.

 

[Chip]

Made mike mamula's "career"

Kevin Mason would run the option away from him. And he would still catch him before he crossed the line of scrimmage.

 

[elimunelson]

I took a picture of the scoreboard at halftime of the Miami game since we were leading (6-3!) and I figured it probably wouldn't last. It didn't.

I was at that BC game. Highlight was that someone(s) spray painted the eagle statue outside Alumni Stadium orange. It was all downhill from there.

I also recall that for the season-ending WVU game we were told all SU had to do was show some offense and be competitive and we'd get a bowl bid. Of course we lost 13-0, looked pathetic, and there was no bowl bid.

I went to that BC game too. I hung out with my buddies from Tufts and took the redline to Park Street and then the green line to the game. It may have been the longest commute of anyone going to the BC game by subway that day. I met my dad at the game and recall the weather being absolutely glorious. It was the first time i saw my dad since starting my frosh year at Syracuse. I'll never forget that day because I felt like an adult meeting my father for the first time (i still tried to hide the fact i was boozing in the Mods).

The game itself was an embarrassment as you said. Mamula sacked Mason 139 times that day. It was very bittersweet because it was the first time in my life I was rooting against the Eagles at the Heights after being there for many games for the prior 12 years of my life. Running into some friends at the game (some fellow frosh, some living in the Mods, etc) i got a serious case of home sickness and remembered thinking of transferring through Thanksgiving to BC.

Thankfully the feeling passed and I stayed at Syracuse for the duration.

 

[sufandu]

I may have revisionist history, but for some reason, I feel like Kevin Mason should be somewhere on this list. I know his time was short coming in behind I believe Graves, but people didn't expect much from that team.

Or maybe Todd Philcox. After his one year as a starter, didn't have the second longest NFL career behind McNabb?

 

[GoSU96]

I have only watched since the mid 80's so i won't rank players i haven't seen play.

1. McNabb
2. McPherson
3. Graves
4. Nassib
5. Dungey
6. Philcox

the rest don't deserve to be rated as an all-time great

Yeah, stating as all time greats was too much. Rank them and the tiers take care of themselves.

I think the first three are the only ones that you can consider like that, performance and wins. Nassib, Dungey and Philcox were really, really, good. If Dungey and the team goes off and this ends up being a 9+ win season, I'd add him to the first four.

They all had their flaws and limitations but RJ, Troy, and Terrell were solid starters that were at the helm of bowl winning teams.

 

[sufandu]

I loved Graves, but are you sure he was a two-time All-American? I could be wrong, I just don't recall him being one and he isn't on this list.

View attachment 138057

I don't know if he was one, but that list is only consensus all americans. We have had all americans that weren't consensus. Rob Moore was a 2nd team Associated Press AA in 1989.

In 1992 only 9 players were consensus, including the extremely overrated Gino Torretta.

 

[sufandu]

We have to be careful using stats to rank our alltime greats from different eras. The only rushing stat Jim Brown was number one in was most TDs in a game against colgate in '56 and had only 7 more that year. He is absent from the top 10 in all yardage categories.

 

[Eric15]

Why is Dave Sarette not on this list? He was a three year starter from 1959-1961 -- arguably the best three year stretch in program history. In our national title season in 1959, he threw for 10 TDs and had a passer rating of 164.

Did Perry Patterson's grandma have any influence over this list?

 

[elimunelson]

We have to be careful using stats to rank our alltime greats from different eras. The only rushing stat Jim Brown was number one in was most TDs in a game against colgate in '56 and had only 7 more that year. He is absent from the top 10 in all yardage categories.

100% agreed.

When I watched Marvin Graves, he was in CONTROL of the Orangemen. The job of a QB is to be in control of the offense and make the machine go. I could care less about shallow passing stats when we're down 42-14.

Those Orangemen teams of the early 90s were ALWAYS in dogfights and the stats were legitimate. Give me Marvin over anyone not named McNabb and Don McPherson 87 (guy won the maxwell award)

 

[sufandu]

100% agreed.

When I watched Marvin Graves, he was in CONTROL of the Orangemen. The job of a QB is to be in control of the offense and make the machine go. I could care less about shallow passing stats when we're down 42-14.

Those Orangemen teams of the early 90s were ALWAYS in dogfights and the stats were legitimate. Give me Marvin over anyone not named McNabb and Don McPherson 87 (guy won the maxwell award)

Yeah, and even though he didn't have great rushing numbers, he was a great option qb. There weren't too many better at timing the pitch than him. How many times did he draw the defender and get blasted just as he pitched the ball for a good gain? I can think of one play specifically where he was at least 5 yards down field before he gave it up to Walker for something like a 15-20 yard gain. He didn't get credit for those yards but was certainly responsible for them.

There was a reason McNabb's high school coach described him as a bigger stronger Marvin Graves.

 

[anomander]

That list and your final sentence are both spot-on.

Apropos of Dungey and his placement on the list, he has the opportunity to move up with a big senior year, enhancing his legacy and his positioning on the pantheon. Being fifth [as you've rated him] "feels" right given his capabilities, but some of that is projection. If he actualizes his potential and stays healthy this year, it will make for a lively debate about where he ranks on that list.

I would love to move Dungey up after a magical year. I think his ceiling is 4 just because of the 12 total wins.

Anything less than an all-american season and that's where he will top off. Even if he can manage an all-acc season and garner all-american consideration, plus an 8 win season that probably still won't be enough to pass my all time favorite Orange, Marvin Graves.