Who do you think will be syracuse's first/second scoring options next year???

[OttoinGrotto]

Yes, that makes a lot of sense, but I might add Cooney to the explosive scoring side. Cooney as a consistent scorer would be a gift from heaven!-VBOF

I'm high on Cooney, and think he'll be a good one for us, but I'm not expecting as much from him this next season as a lot of others because I think MCW and Triche are easily going to see the lion's share of the minutes at guard and average in the ball park of 35 minutes apiece. I'm not expecting Cooney to give us more than 3 or 4 points a game on average.

That said, I think he's likely to end up #2 on our all-time 3 pointers made list. I just don't think he's called upon to score a whole lot next season, or gets many opportunities. I look at the roster and the only guy I see as less of a clear cut option to score is Keita. MCW and Triche are likely higher scoring options. Southerland and Fair are better scoring options. I think Coleman is a better scoring option. Maybe Cooney's ahead of Rak, but I don't know that for sure. I have no idea where Grant lands in the mix next season.

 

[Cusefaninvirginia]

I agree with BT and Fair. The problem with Southerland is, if he does start stepping out as a leading scorer, he's too easy to shut down. Put a tough defender on him and play him tight in man to man coverage, and he really struggles to hit his outside shots. The games he tends to do better in are against zones or man coverage where the other team is more focussed on trying to shut down a different Cuse player. Don't get me wrong, I think he's still a great scoring option to have coming off the bench, especially since other parts of his game (rebounding, overall defense) improved a lot last year - I just don't expect him to be one of the leading couple of scorers on the team. Here's my guesses on who scorers how much per game:

BT - 14-15
Fair - 13-14
MCW - 12
Southerland - 9-10
Coleman - 8 (tough to call - could be anywhere 6-12)
Cooney - 8 (having only 3 guards, he'll get his 20 mpg)
Christmas - 6-8
Grant - 3-5
Keita - 2-4

Overall I think this will be a much more balanced team than last year, despite the loss of our 2 best scoring options from last year (Waiters and KJo). Our 3 pt shooting will be better and we'll also have better low post scoring threats with the addition of Coleman and maturation of Christmas.

 

[moqui]

I think CJ Fair is a valuable contributor but, wow, is he ever being over rated in this thread. His offensive game remains very limited. He can sneak through for points when he is not a focal point of the offense, but if he is ever the first or second option, he will draw significant defensive attention, which will find him easy to shut down because (1) he is not a threat outside of 10 feet, (2) he can't go to never goes to his right, and (3) he rarely looks for his teammates. CJ's game is best suited as what we have seen so far - a role player who occasionally has big nights. Plus, it is going to be difficult to have him on the court if DC2 and Rak have the seasons that I am expecting, because they will need spacing that his 10 feet and in game doesn't provide. CJ, unfortunately, is a 4 in a 3's body, but if SU is going to excel this year, it needs a true 3 with an outside-in game. Now, if Dirty doesn't perform and Grant isn't ready, then CJ will get minutes at the 3 by default,but Syracuse will be a poorer team for it (not because he is not a good player, but because he is not the best fit with the other frontcourt players). Just my 2 ₵

 

[IthacaMatt]

Triche
Southerland


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Yep. My only concern is that Brandon not try too hard to be "the guy". I think he is better when he lets the flow of the game come to him. I could easily see him pressing too hard to be the guy.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I agree with BT and Fair. The problem with Southerland is, if he does start stepping out as a leading scorer, he's too easy to shut down. Put a tough defender on him and play him tight in man to man coverage, and he really struggles to hit his outside shots. The games he tends to do better in are against zones or man coverage where the other team is more focussed on trying to shut down a different Cuse player. Don't get me wrong, I think he's still a great scoring option to have coming off the bench, especially since other parts of his game (rebounding, overall defense) improved a lot last year - I just don't expect him to be one of the leading couple of scorers on the team. Here's my guesses on who scorers how much per game:

BT - 14-15
Fair - 13-14
MCW - 12
Southerland - 9-10
Coleman - 8 (tough to call - could be anywhere 6-12)
Cooney - 8 (having only 3 guards, he'll get his 20 mpg)
Christmas - 6-8
Grant - 3-5
Keita - 2-4

Overall I think this will be a much more balanced team than last year, despite the loss of our 2 best scoring options from last year (Waiters and KJo). Our 3 pt shooting will be better and we'll also have better low post scoring threats with the addition of Coleman and maturation of Christmas.

The problem with Fair being the go-to guy is that he doesn't really have a go-to move that he can rely on for a bucket in a tough spot. He isn't the kind of guy who can create something one-on-one, although he is pretty good at that midrange game. I think Southerland outside is going to be money next year - he could have a year like Preston Shumpert and I wouldn't be surprised one bit.

 

[arbitragegls]

Look for Triche to be around 15-17pts/gm and CJ to be around 11-13pts/gm.
Even if you straight line Triche his minutes are going to be 30-34 minutes a game..and if that is case, he will score minimally 15pts a game.

 

[orangefan13]

I think CJ Fair rarely looks for his teammates. CJ's game is best suited as what we have seen so far - . ₵

Agree I think this brings up a thought we haven't thought to much of. We really don't have a point forward. I felt KJO did a pretty good job being one. Wes was a pretty good one at times. Harris and Rautins did the job a few years back but we that guy named Flynn. Going back a few years before that to the Nichols, Josh Wright, Devendorf year that was one of our biggest problems. No true point guard. Dnic just took over with shooting and Wright never had it.

So like having Flynn, I think the tandem of MCW and Triche could prove good enough to not need a point forward and to clear the lane out for. However, I also think a HUGE part of CJ and Southerland not being a point forward yet is the defense hasn't keyed on them. Once the defense starts to key on them more and they are the isolation guys, they will either find a shot at will or have more oportunity to find a open man.


Reguardless CJ, and James were atleast our 4th and 5th isolation options this last year. Melo and Triche made a case but I think James had slightly more iso then both. Triche got his off the swing pass of which he was so consistant off of Im not sure I want him to learn the iso scoring.

Also keep in mind both James and CJ did have some isolation in the high post which means they would post up. CJ could do it unsquared to the basket some. James always started his squared up for his jumpshot.JB is going to run CJ and James in isolation to they are blue in the face and I think we could see some passing skills from them. IMO one of the things KJO was alittle underated at this last year. James made one of the best passes of the year in transition off a overhead swing pass to a trailor in march. The biggest point to take from this is both were pretty confident in isolation in the high post despite the lack of attacking the rim off bouncing off the defender. So tempting to ramble on.

 

[Antiprodigy]

I think CJ Fair is a valuable contributor but, wow, is he ever being over rated in this thread. His offensive game remains very limited. He can sneak through for points when he is not a focal point of the offense, but if he is ever the first or second option, he will draw significant defensive attention, which will find him easy to shut down because (1) he is not a threat outside of 10 feet, (2) he can't go to never goes to his right, and (3) he rarely looks for his teammates. CJ's game is best suited as what we have seen so far - a role player who occasionally has big nights. Plus, it is going to be difficult to have him on the court if DC2 and Rak have the seasons that I am expecting, because they will need spacing that his 10 feet and in game doesn't provide. CJ, unfortunately, is a 4 in a 3's body, but if SU is going to excel this year, it needs a true 3 with an outside-in game. Now, if Dirty doesn't perform and Grant isn't ready, then CJ will get minutes at the 3 by default,but Syracuse will be a poorer team for it (not because he is not a good player, but because he is not the best fit with the other frontcourt players). Just my 2 ₵

Wow, Moqui. I am quite surprised by your post. You really see both DC2 & Rak playing extensively, together? I just don't see it, and one of the reasons, as stated, spacing. They will have difficulty getting enough spacing to keep the opposition from covering both of them with one man. I honestly don't see that as a very capable line-up on either the offensive or defensive side of the court. Defensively, I think that, unless we see a significant improvement from Rak, he is going to have difficulty in getting out to the wing. And there isn't even a point in discussing DC2 at the 4. That would be a disaster right now. Maybe some year in the future, but certainly not this year.

I do hope that Rak can make that leap, because it certainly would make him more marketable in his future endeavors, and would help the team considerably. But, unless that happens, you would have to play JS at the three when DC2 and Rak were in together. And, at this point, I think JB sees CJ's overall game > JS's overall game. Therefore, he probably will prefer to play a line-up that favors CJ's minutes > JS's minutes. I expect the majority of the time you will see either DC2 or Rak, but not both, though both could well be the starting line-up.

I think maybe you short change CJ's game a little, but he seems to be a smart kid, so, I would expect his efforts in the off season to be concentrated on improving his outside shot. He has to know that if he ever hopes to continue his career beyond SU, that he will have to develop some consistency from outside. If the work put in leads to a decent threat from beyond the arc, things open up a lot for the team.

I like the improvement that JS has made in his game, but unless he can learn to step inside the arc and hit those mid range jumpers, he won't be a starter.

 

[moqui]

You really see both DC2 & Rak playing extensively, together? I just don't see it, and one of the reasons, as stated, spacing

I think Rak is a true 4 and DC is a true 5 and that they more easily play together than did TRob and Mookie, for example. I think Rak is going to make the typical sophomore leap and DC2 will be ready to contribute from Day 1 (although conditioning may be an issue, but BMK will get plenty of minutes at the 5 to keep him fresh)

at this point, I think JB sees CJ's overall game > JS's overall game.

I'm not going to pretend I know what JB is thinking, but I do know that, as far as "overall game" goes, the only edge that CJ has on Dirty is rebounding, and that mostly comes at the offensive end (which is to be expected when you are comparing an interior player to a perimeter player). Dirty is both a better scorer and a better defender and, more to the point, he has the ability to be not just solid but a difference maker at both ends of the court

I like the improvement that JS has made in his game, but unless he can learn to step inside the arc and hit those mid range jumpers, he won't be a starter.

He was absolutely money on his mid range jumper last year . . . if you mean you want to see him take more of them, I agree, but that is not the role that JB had for him last year. I would expect to see him using him at the high post next year, where he was so effective in spots last year.

I think maybe you short change CJ's game a little, but he seems to be a smart kid, so, I would expect his efforts in the off season to be concentrated on improving his outside shot.

that was supposedly what he did all of last season . . . CJ will get plenty of minutes (there should be a three forward rotation of Rak/Dirty/CJ and their minutes will be roughly equal - all more than 24 and all less than 30). I'm not short changing him and I don't mean to bag on him, but we don't do him any favors when we raise expectations beyond his demonstrated abilities. He is a solid player and a valuable contributor, but he is not a primary scorer. I will, of course, gladly eat crow if CJ suddenly turns himself into a versatile scorer and a true three, and I have certainly been wrong many times before.

 

[Antiprodigy]

I don't intend to come across as pretending to know what JB thinks either. But, as evidence of confidence in CJ's offensive abilities, i think that planning isolation plays in end game situations with CJ in mind, tends to lend credence to the opinion that JB has a certain level of confidence in CJ's game that he does not have in JS's. And pardon me if i am incorrect, but i do no recall any end game situations that the ball was given to Southerland.

The point that I was making about JS's game, is that he is wonderful when he is set prior to receiving the ball. However, if his defender is in his face, I would like to see him work on driving past the defender into space, then pull up for the shot. As you said, he has shown the capability to make shots.

Sadly, I don't think there is anyone on the team who is truly a primary scorer. Many times, the team will be able to mask that fact, and there may be as many as 4-5 players who lead the scoring on any particular night, but unless they play truly stout defense this year, they will have problems scoring against good teams.

 

[realorange]

The main difference between CJ and James is that CJ is a scorer and James is a shooter. James hasn't shown that he consistently has an all around game that is better than CJ.

 

[orangefan13]

Many times, the team will be able to mask that fact, and there may be as many as 4-5 players who lead the scoring on any particular night, but unless they play truly stout defense this year, they will have problems scoring against good teams.

Dissagree. I think we will be one of the top 3 flexible offensive teams in the big east on paper. We have all the tools. I would take all the tools consistantly over a bonefide star.
I wouldn't be surprised to see us being hands down the most flexible team in the BE right now.
I agree we will have our cold moments but what college team doesn't?

James has averaged 2-3 more points then cj per 30 mpg. I think people are vastly underating CJ and James post up game. Especially at the three. They may not be strong but they have the height. If they ever get a good seal off espeically now moving to SF then look out. They just need to hit the wieghts and work on their dribble together with Grant this offseason.