Who replaces CJ and Grant on offensive contribution

[007]

I disagree with this. There really was no flow with this offense. Our offense consisted of Ennis holding the ball for 10-15 seconds, either passed it to Cooney for a 3, or the majority of the time passed it to Fair/Grant who held the ball and took a bad ISO shot with a hand in their face.

What made him a first round pick was 25-0, late game heroics in the beginning of the season. The look of cool, calm, and collective while never turning the ball over. He is here another year or two if we lose a couple of those first 25 games, unfortunately the hype machine took over.

Although I do agree that the late game heroics, 25-0 start, and demeanor played a role, I don't agree at all with your assessment of what that role was.

I think the stuff you mentioned did trigger the attention of the NBA and, in turn, this accelerated the scouting process. I find it very difficult to believe that a 6-1 freshman point guard from Canada was drafted in the 1st round based solely on the "hype machine" late game heroics, or the expression on his face. Every single scouting report I read talked about his unique ability to efficiently run the offense and, more importantly for the NBA, his ability to run and create off of the pick and roll.

He operated in the two man game extensively, as 32.9% of his possessions came on the pick and roll and 29.9% of his possessions derived from his own usage and his passes came from dishes out of the pick and roll, both of which rank 4th among point guard prospects. Sporting a 3.5 assist-to-turnover ratio in the half court overall, Ennis's decision-making when the game slows down is one of his biggest strengths relative to his peers.

From DraftExpress.comhttp://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz39RCCh5ue
http://www.draftexpress.com

 

[SoBeCuse]

All of this discussion and debate means mostly one thing. There were LOTS of problems with the offense and only limited solutions. I think it takes awhile and large sample size to probably get the scouting book on a team during a season and understand the trends/weaknesses to be able to effectively shut an offense down.

- Ennis was a constant. I don't know how much he will score in the NBA or D-League but am fairly certain he can effectively run a pro-level team.
- Cooney wouldn't put it on the floor much and didn't pass except back to Ennis. When he stopped making threes we were done.
- Fair had a pretty effective mid-range game but couldn't really help the team in other ways such as passing or off the bounce.
- Grant was raw and a dunker.
- Rak/Baye don't score or get the ball.
- Gbinjie was passive and uncomfortable.
- No bench

Very little upside with last year's team. Sort of a miracle we were able to get away with it for so long and that Duke fool's gold game of no defense didn't help things. This year the team I think has more potential scoring options and skill sets conducive to better offense. I hope at least!

 

[Trueblue25]

That's exactly right.
And CJ deserves a lot of credit for doing all that he did when you take into account that he was basically our first, second and third options on offense.

And i believe he was our first, second and third scoring option because our guard was incapable of running a faster paced offense. Ennis also very rarely drove and penatrated to the basket, which he was capable of doing, which madenit difficult for grant and xmas to get open in space. Ennis was a great guard but his slow tempo offense really hurt players like cj, rak and jerami.

 

[orangefan13]

I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if we are all underestimating Gbinije.
Hes getting older technically a 5th year senior in a jr role. He can handle the rock some, and is coming into his jumpshot. He doesn't like to give up on plays and has above average strength and height for a guard at a top caliber school.

 

[El Jefe Syr]

Totally agree on more loses, though while last year's "loss spike" was (cruelly) in the last 15-25% of the season, I believe that this year there will be early to mid season clusters of losses with a general trend toward improvement and a respectable NCAA showing.

Don't agree about the team being the same though. I'm guessing defense to be close to the same (perhaps just a bit worse), offense to be better - up tempo, team oriented, but without a true goto guy.

Lots of question marks, but I think it will be a fun season watching the young guys develop and give us hints of what will be a huge year in 2015-2016.

 

[AZOrange]

Aside from the Centers, all anyone should be doing this offseason is shooting 3 pointers. Last year we saw the ceiling for a team that cannot shoot the three ball.

Reminds me of the days at archibald when McNeil would be in there launching 3s. Ah the memories. Such a great player to root for.

 

[Dave85]

Aside from the Centers, all anyone should be doing this offseason is shooting 3 pointers.

Last year we saw the ceiling for a team that cannot shoot the three ball.

I think our problem last year was our offense was so predictable. Our three point shooting would have been better if we had more than two or three set plays.

My hope is the coaching staff starts developing some kind of read-react type motion offense. This would make our offense a little less predictable by having more players move in reaction to the way the defense is playing. Google "read react motion offense" there are tons of articles on this type of offense. The problem is it can get extremely complicated for players to learn the rules and locations of their reactions. Anyone who tries to coach this simplifies it to just a few position and motion rules.

We certainly have to be more effective driving and dishing to open players on offensive sets (especially the big guys in the low post who can finish with a dunk). It just seemed to me last year the offense was very one dimensional in many ways.

 

[realorange]

Our offense was bad last year because we didn't have players who could consistently put down open shots.

 

[Dave85]

Our offense was bad last year because we didn't have players who could consistently put down open shots.

I don't think it's that simple. The offense was too predictable and easy to defend against. I think it was more than just making more shots.

 

[orangefan13]

We couldn't hit shots against pressure or tough shots. Fair shooting 3-14's often, cooney falling off the boat entirely, and grant losing his high post up game midseason on with a injure on top of it.

Fair shoots a respectable 6-13 instead of 3-14 against dayton, or ennis knocks down one of those 2 open jumpshots at the end we probably move on. This says it all.

 

[Dave85]

We couldn't hit shots against pressure or tough shots. Fair shooting 3-14's often, cooney falling off the boat entirely, and grant losing his high post up game midseason on with a injure on top of it.

Fair shoots a respectable 6-13 instead of 3-14 against dayton, or ennis knocks down one of those 2 open jumpshots at the end we probably move on. This says it all.

I think maybe something changed when the national media was talking about Ennis being a lottery pick. People saying CJ would not be drafted I think hurt his game a bit. Grant had his back injury. My theory about Cooney was after the Duke game he got a really hot girlfriend and his shooting percentage plummeted. This year the hot girlfriend will not be as much a distraction for him.

Maybe JB should have played more than 7 guys. You would think Patterson might have been able to contribute on nights Cooney was ice cold. And more playing time for TR would have helped towards the end of the season when Grant wasn't 100%.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I think maybe something changed when the national media was talking about Ennis being a lottery pick. People saying CJ would not be drafted I think hurt his game a bit. Grant had his back injury. My theory about Cooney was after the Duke game he got a really hot girlfriend and his shooting percentage plummeted. This year the hot girlfriend will not be as much a distraction for him.

Maybe JB should have played more than 7 guys. You would think Patterson might have been able to contribute on nights Cooney was ice cold. And more playing time for TR would have helped towards the end of the season when Grant wasn't 100%.

No. CJ and the others just weren't good enough and/or not enough multiple skill sets collectively. This has been discussed ad nauseum now. Cooney has to put in the floor and learn to pass to someone other than the PG if his shot isn't falling. Everyone has to pick it up this season. Hopefully the newcomers are up to the challenge.

I agree on the bench. The staff has to get these guys ready to contribute. It can't be all on the players. Who knows. None of us are at practice.

 

[Dave85]

No. CJ and the others just weren't good enough and/or not enough multiple skill sets collectively. This has been discussed ad nauseum now. Cooney has to put in the floor and learn to pass to someone other than the PG if his shot isn't falling. Everyone has to pick it up this season. Hopefully the newcomers are up to the challenge.

I agree on the bench. The staff has to get these guys ready to contribute. It can't be all on the players. Who knows. None of us are at practice.

I thought after the first Duke win last season the team went off kilter. Something was just not right in the team chemistry although I just can't put my finger on it. If it were not Cooney having a career night they would have got toasted by ND.

I was wondering if Patterson got on JB's bad side somehow last season. Coach can be pretty stubborn when it comes to player shenanigans. I thought maybe Patterson cutting his hair last season was way to try to get on JBs good side even though I thought the dreads looked pretty cool.

I'm sure there's a lot that goes on in the practices that determines who plays. It would be interesting in my mind to find out the importance of bench players and their role during practices. Maybe if you have better hard working bench players the starters would do better. I always wonder if that were true. When JB clamped down to just 7 players I wonder if the bench lost some of it's motivation.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I thought after the first Duke win last season the team went off kilter. Something was just not right in the team chemistry although I just can't put my finger on it. If it were not Cooney having a career night they would have got toasted by ND.

I was wondering if Patterson got on JB's bad side somehow last season. Coach can be pretty stubborn when it comes to player shenanigans. I thought maybe Patterson cutting his hair last season was way to try to get on JBs good side even though I thought the dreads looked pretty cool.

I'm sure there's a lot that goes on in the practices that determines who plays. It would be interesting in my mind to find out the importance of bench players and their role during practices. Maybe if you have better hard working bench players the starters would do better. I always wonder if that were true. When JB clamped down to just 7 players I wonder if the bench lost some of it's motivation.

I think you're maybe searching for answers that may or may not be there. The ONLY issue and unanswered question I have is whether the bench truly wasn't ready to contribute. Whether the staff truly tried to develop the bench in practice or if Roberson/Patterson simply struggled too much in practice to not merit playing time.

We know now that Duke was fool's gold. Duke wasn't very good (defensively especially and away from home) and the team had already peaked by then. Mercer shredded them and would've shredded us. SU just didn't have enough versatility/scorers/players who could do multiple things well enough when Cooney's shooting went south. Teams then knew how to effectively play us later in the season. Our offense became crippled and woeful.

 

[Dave85]

I think you're maybe searching for answers that may or may not be there. The ONLY issue and unanswered question I have is whether the bench truly wasn't ready to contribute. Whether the staff truly tried to develop the bench in practice or if Roberson/Patterson simply struggled too much in practice to not merit playing time.

We know now that Duke was fool's gold. Duke wasn't very good (defensively especially and away from home) and the team had already peaked by then. Mercer shredded them and would've shredded us. SU just didn't have enough versatility/scorers/players who could do multiple things well enough when Cooney's shooting went south. Teams then knew how to effectively play us later in the season. Our offense became crippled and woeful.

It's hard to argue with what you are saying. How positive are you about this season's prospects for success? Going into last season I was really positive about our team. I thought maybe would we put one of the best squads on the court ever. Boy, did I turn out to be wrong! Some of it was the team just going through a bad spell at the wrong time. But I really thought TR would have had a much bigger impact. I really thought Coleman would have been a force. I didn't think Rak would be a foul-getting machine. I thought Cooney would shoot at least 29% from three during conference games. Oh well.

This season I see a lot of components but it's really a mystery how well this team is going to gel. Plus you really do not have strong leadership from upper classmen. My feeling for this season is it may turn out to be a roller coaster ride from the get go.

 

[SoBeCuse]

It's hard to argue with what you are saying. How positive are you about this season's prospects for success? Going into last season I was really positive about our team. I thought maybe would we put one of the best squads on the court ever. Boy, did I turn out to be wrong! Some of it was the team just going through a bad spell at the wrong time. But I really thought TR would have had a much bigger impact. I really thought Coleman would have been a force. I didn't think Rak would be a foul-getting machine. I thought Cooney would shoot at least 29% from three during conference games. Oh well.

This season I see a lot of components but it's really a mystery how well this team is going to gel. Plus you really do not have strong leadership from upper classmen. My feeling for this season is it may turn out to be a roller coaster ride from the get go.

I hear ya. Mysterious for sure. I think most of us feel that there is potential for better parts to fit together. Joseph looks like he is going to push the tempo more which will hopefully lead to more exciting bball and scoring increases. This could be important if our halfcourt offense blows again. I'll be happy with some lumps and turnovers early in the season if it means that the team will be surging come March.

I am not as high on McCullough as some. Mostly because of the 'motor' issue and the fact that he seems to like to drift on the perimeter. He has mentioned in articles before how he wants to be improve his three point shooting. Last thing I want to see is a little taller version of LaQuinton Ross (undrafted) who just hoists threes. I would be thrilled with 10/6 from him. If Roberson steps up and makes a big leap and if Cooney/Silent G/Rak improve their all around game as well as assertiveness then I think we have the potential to make a deeper run than what happened with Dayton.

 

[Dave85]

I hear ya. Mysterious for sure. I think most of us feel that there is potential for better parts to fit together. Joseph looks like he is going to push the tempo more which will hopefully lead to more exciting bball and scoring increases. This could be important if our halfcourt offense blows again. I'll be happy with some lumps and turnovers early in the season if it means that the team will be surging come March.

I am not as high on McCullough as some. Mostly because of the 'motor' issue and the fact that he seems to like to drift on the perimeter. He has mentioned in articles before how he wants to be improve his three point shooting. Last thing I want to see is a little taller version of LaQuinton Ross (undrafted) who just hoists threes. I would be thrilled with 10/6 from him. If Roberson steps up and makes a big leap and if Cooney/Silent G/Rak improve their all around game as well as assertiveness then I think we have the potential to make a deeper run than what happened with Dayton.

Gee, I don't know if he's going to be 3-point shooter. When Fab Melo started doing jump shots he lost playing time. I don't mind him taking an outside shot once in a while as long as it goes in! He seems like one the best big guy's we've recruited. I like his body frame. He reminds me of a stronger larger Jerami Grant but about the same speed. He may not jump as high as Grant but his low post moves are strong. I think he's going to be one of the best forwards on offense we've ever had. We haven't had a strong low post presence on offense since AO.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Totally agree on more loses, though while last year's "loss spike" was (cruelly) in the last 15-25% of the season, I believe that this year there will be early to mid season clusters of losses with a general trend toward improvement and a respectable NCAA showing.

Don't agree about the team being the same though. I'm guessing defense to be close to the same (perhaps just a bit worse), offense to be better - up tempo, team oriented, but without a true goto guy.

Lots of question marks, but I think it will be a fun season watching the young guys develop and give us hints of what will be a huge year in 2015-2016.

Yes man. What's shakin' dude?