Who will provide the fire next year?

[jordoo]

Like last year one of the main factors that will determine the level of success is Joseph's play at the PG spot. We may have better backup options this year than last but him being an effective PG allows Mike to play the SF mostly which is where he creates the most problems plus it gives you two play makers off the bounce.

We lost basically our whole bench last year as well, with the exception of Obokoh who was used in a limited fashion. You have to believe that our 4 player top10 recruiting class which is very well rounded should be able to combine with Obokoh to provide an overall upgrade as far as bench production goes.

We are returning starters at the PG, SG, SF, PF spots which leaves just the C position with huge vacancy as we lost our most productive player, Rak, to graduation. This gives Coleman the chance to make a very big impact. Its hard to know what to expect from him production wise. This is a guy that came in very highly touted and struggled as a freshman before his season was ended early by a knee injury (24 games played). He had a bad habit of bringing the ball down near the rim, dribbling in traffic and struggled to make the shifts and slides in the zone. Still he managed to rebound at a very good rate, drew a lot of attention in the post and got to the FT line at a decent clip. He was slimmed down for his sophomore season and was moving much better. While he showed a lot of the same bad habits on offense he showed improvement on defense in the middle of the zone and was again good at gobbling up rebounds and getting to the line. It should be noted that he was competing for minutes with a senior Keita and a Junior Christmas and SU wasn't looking for much offensive production from the center spot. For that reason he didn't garner a lot of playing time before again missing most of the season due to knee injury (13 games and 13 minutes per). This last year SU waited until around Christmas to officially shut Coleman down for the year and make the decision to take a medical red-shirt. At that time although he was fairly healthy he was not yet able to go full speed up and down the curt in scrimmages. Since that time its been said that he is back to practicing at full speed, is slimmer than he's ever been and showing very well in practice. If Coleman can continue to go full speed in practices until the season starts with no setbacks than that bodes very well for him being able to stay healthy for the season.

If Coleman is 100% healthy he's basically a lock to be the starting center next year. He's still going to be a bit of a question mark production wise and it may take him a few games to get used to the speed of real action. The good news is that we will have a strong, big bodied center who will be hard to push around physically, be older and more mature than your average college player and will be very familiar with the zone and SU's system after being in the program for 3 years. If he plays 25 or more minutes he's going to get a lot of rebounds, he's going to draw fouls and head to the line. If he has improved his post play and eliminated some of his bad habits he would have a chance to be quite an offensive force in the middle and draw plenty of defensive attention. One thing that I think may be overlooked is that a healthy Coleman could be a huge intensity booster on a team of relatively reserved personalities. When Coleman did play he played hard, was intensity and showed plenty of emotion. If he can stay healthy and be productive I think he has the chance to be a real difference maker as an emotional leader on the court. I've watched this kid, who has had basically 3 injury plagued seasons, be our biggest cheerleader from the bench throughout his whole ordeal. He's worked very hard to rehab, get healthy and stay in shape even through long periods of limited mobility. You know he's going to be hungry once he gets out there. I think he very well may end up being our on court leader next year and make a huge impact while doing so.

 

[bballbeadle]

I admire your ability to write an intensive analysis during the off season.

As for Coleman, from your keyboard to the ears of the Goddess! If ever anyone needed validation for all of his hard work and persistence, it is that young man!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yeah, Coleman and Diagne are going to make or break the season I think.

 

[OttoMets]

I agree that it's Joseph's team. Hopefully he can lead the group and not have to carry his teammates, because there are a few weak pieces on this roster. Big holes at the 2 and 5, especially.

 

[jordoo]

I agree that it's Joseph's team. Hopefully he can lead the group and not have to carry his teammates, because there are a few weak pieces on this roster. Big holes at the 2 and 5, especially.

Its interesting though because its POSSIBLE that Coleman and Diange wind up making the 5 spot a relative strength. Also our highest rated incoming freshman is a 2 and his best skill is long distance shooting plus we are starting a 5 year grad at the 2 who whatever his faults and shortcomings has won games for us making shots and when hot is as dangerous a shooter as anyone.

To me Joseph's development as a PG and Coleman's health/production are the keys to next years team.

 

[Dave85]

Like last year one of the main factors that will determine the level of success is Joseph's play at the PG spot. We may have better backup options this year than last but him being an effective PG allows Mike to play the SF mostly which is where he creates the most problems plus it gives you two play makers off the bounce.
...

I agree with you Kaleb playing well at PG is integral to our success next season. And I agree with your comments about the C position and Coleman. My biggest concern with Coleman is if his knees will be able to survive the stress of playing D1 CBB. I think we may see more Obokoh and Diagne at center even if Coleman is the starter. Without a good center our 2-3 zone defense may suffer a bit. The center is a key position in the zone and it takes players a couple of years of experience to do it well. But defense is generally a little easier to play than offense in my opinion so I think we can improve as the season rolls on.

The two players I find really interesting for next season are TR and G. I think TR could be a real x-factor and is capable of having a truly breakout season. G reminds me of James Southerland. James made a pretty big leap after his Junior season. I think G has the potential to raise it up another level. Both TR and G and moments of brilliance last season. I think we are going to see a higher frequency of brilliance out of both of those players. TR and G will be huge in our success winning games. TC will be about the same in my opinion which includes him winning 2 or 3 games by himself. If he takes over 4 or more games that would be really exciting.

 

[Frozen]

Jerry The King Lawler

 

[Henny & Coke]

From my (few) interactions with him I can say that DaJuan Coleman is one of the easiest athletes to root for that I've ever been around - nice guy, somewhat soft-spoken but willing to converse if engaged, thoughtful...and beyond all else, maintains the most optimistic of attitudes (which surely helped him these past 2 difficult seasons).

Combine those traits with the fact that he was a local, big-time recruit who spurned Calipari to go to SU, as well as the intensity/passion he brings on the court & what a good teammate he is...suffice it to say I haven't been personally invested in hoping an athlete succeeds like this is quite sometime. Nothing would make me happier than to see all the hard work pay off for DaJuan this year. I mean, just the effort that went into re-shaping his body must have been a monumental task.

And I think it will happen for him this year. I think the coaches were being extra cautious in holding him out last year, and I think he'll be ready to roll this season. His rebounding has always been top-notch. (With him & Roberson I'm not sure we've had 2 rebounders like that in who knows how long?) And his offensive game has always been good too. So here's to hoping.

 

[orangejunkie]

Nice assessments, it gets me looking forward to next season and it's only May. I only hope that Coleman can stay healthy. Glad to hear he's training at full strength and looking good. Maybe even Obokoh can show some development, that would be a big boost. He is a big body that I never expect to contribute much at the offensive end other than put backs and maybe an occasional short/mid range jumper; but his defense, intensity, and rebounding could be nice contributions off the bench. Would be nice to have 10 guys that could contribute but we know from past history that won't happen, either because of Boeheim's narrow substitution philosophy or total lack of readiness.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Without a good center our 2-3 zone defense may suffer a bit. The center is a key position in the zone and it takes players a couple of years of experience to do it well.

The zone suffered last year even with Rak because too much penetration was allowed and nobody was forcing turnovers. And therein lies the problem. It requires all parts to be clicking to be truly effective for 40 minutes:

• long guards who stop dribble penetration and cut off the high post
• guards with great anticipation to disrupt passing lanes
• long forwards who can close out on the wing yet strong enough to rebound in traffic since we don't block out (especially on the weak side)
• a shot-blocking center who can protect the rim as the last line of defense AND close out on the wing when there's a breakdown.
  
• guards that know how to finish a fast break when the zone forces turnovers (after the last few years it's worth mentioning)

In 2010 and 2012/13 the personnel was well-suited to that criteria but in most years there are liabilities. The frustrating part is if we didn't play zone exclusively some of those shortcomings could be mitigated somewhat. I hope JB has great success in his final 1-2-3 years, but it will be refreshing to know that Hop is willing to mix things up and get after it. Might even help us land a top 10 recruit or two at some point.

 

[SoBeCuse]

From my (few) interactions with him I can say that DaJuan Coleman is one of the easiest athletes to root for that I've ever been around - nice guy, somewhat soft-spoken but willing to converse if engaged, thoughtful...and beyond all else, maintains the most optimistic of attitudes (which surely helped him these past 2 difficult seasons).

Combine those traits with the fact that he was a local, big-time recruit who spurned Calipari to go to SU, as well as the intensity/passion he brings on the court & what a good teammate he is...suffice it to say I haven't been personally invested in hoping an athlete succeeds like this is quite sometime. Nothing would make me happier than to see all the hard work pay off for DaJuan this year. I mean, just the effort that went into re-shaping his body must have been a monumental task.

And I think it will happen for him this year. I think the coaches were being extra cautious in holding him out last year, and I think he'll be ready to roll this season. His rebounding has always been top-notch. (With him & Roberson I'm not sure we've had 2 rebounders like that in who knows how long?) And his offensive game has always been good too. So here's to hoping.

Great post. No question regarding the bold print part. He deserves to see some personal success. Even half of Rak's production and simply staying on the court would be huge for him and the team.

 

[jordoo]

Yeah, Coleman and Diagne are going to make or break the season I think.

We have to plug that hole in the middle and I don't see Obohoh as more than 10min max backup next season. I think very highly of Diange and actually expect Coleman and Diange to eat up pretty much all the minutes at center.

 

[SoBeCuse]

We have to plug that hole in the middle and I don't see Obohoh as more than 10min max backup next season. I think very highly of Diange and actually expect Coleman and Diange to eat up pretty much all the minutes at center.

Agreed. Plus, Obokoh seems to not lift his feet much and sort of hockey skates out there. I would be shocked if Diagne doesn't pass him by quickly.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I don't see Obohoh as more than 10min max backup

Now that Bryant went to IU, do we have a return policy on Obokoh? I hope JB didn't throw away the receipt.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Let's say Coleman is serviceable and more of a hustle force on both ends but not a guy we can throw the ball down in the low post and have him get a bucket like Rak. I posted the next part the other day and am curious what people think about how the offense will look. Thoughts?

What will the offense look like from a schematic standpoint? Especially if the shooting struggles continue? We are 18 points down with Rak gone. No double-teams to get kicks out to Cooney or Silent G like last season. Zero transition last season. I don't see some dribble-drive offense working unless last year's backcourt's handles get better or the incoming guys have better than advertised handles. Just curious.

 

[jordoo]

Now that Bryant went to IU, do we have a return policy on Obokoh? I hope JB didn't throw away the receipt.

Its been mentioned at around here but I'm I no actual information. Obokoh is an excellent student, Rak graduated in 3 years why couldn't Obokoh do the same. He could then use the graduate transfer and play right away somewhere else. I think he would need to use that to be able to transfer and play becasue the NCAA took that one year from him for doing too much school work in high school .
Again no direct knowledge but I suspect the ship for us adding a big guy in the 2016 class could come from Obokoh.

 

[Henny & Coke]

Let's say Coleman is serviceable and more of a hustle force on both ends but not a guy we can throw the ball down in the low post and have him get a bucket like Rak. I posted the next part the other day and am curious what people think about how the offense will look. Thoughts?

What will the offense look like from a schematic standpoint? Especially if the shooting struggles continue? We are 18 points down with Rak gone. No double-teams to get kicks out to Cooney or Silent G like last season. Zero transition last season. I don't see some dribble-drive offense working unless last year's backcourt's handles get better or the incoming guys have better than advertised handles. Just curious.

I can't speak to schematics, but from a purely stats-based analysis, I posted this few months ago about Coleman and how he's been able to put up decent scoring averages-per-minutes-played even in those injury-riddled first 2 seasons. So - if healthy - he may be able to be more of a scorer than most realize.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In games Coleman has played 15 mins or more (games where he could develop some feel for game, so excluding games he got in there but not for long enough to make a difference/get comfortable playing) in his career:

Soph year:

5 games played 15 or more mins: 18.0 MPG, 9.2 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 0.6 BPG, 727% FG (16-22)

DaJuan recorded double-doubles in 2 of these 5 games.

Freshman year:

12 games played 15 or more mins: 19.1 MPG, 8.4 PPG, 6.8 RPG, 0.8 BPG, 462% FG (37-80)

Now, some/most of these games were against the easier teams on the schedule...but also came during DaJuan's first 2 years here, so he's gained maturity/experience thru practice since then. These numbers (scoring & rebounding) are pretty nice a big guy dealing with weight/knee issues & relatively inexperienced in the college game.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Its been mentioned at around here but I'm I no actual information. Obokoh is an excellent student, Rak graduated in 3 years why couldn't Obokoh do the same.

I don't think a lot of people are giving Obokoh enough credit and I could be 100% wrong. Most people are writing him off. I know he hasn't really shown us anything, but let's pretend for a second he is a late learner and he comes back a completely different player. Besides, I think that scenario might have a little more plausibility than expecting him to graduate in three years.

 

[jordoo]

I can't speak to schematics, but from a purely stats-based analysis, I posted this few months ago about Coleman and how he's been able to put up decent scoring averages-per-minutes-played even in those injury-riddled first 2 seasons. So - if healthy - he may be able to be more of a scorer than most realize.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In games Coleman has played 15 mins or more (games where he could develop some feel for game, so excluding games he got in there but not for long enough to make a difference/get comfortable playing) in his career:

Soph year:

5 games played 15 or more mins: 18.0 MPG, 9.2 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 0.6 BPG, 727% FG (16-22)

DaJuan recorded double-doubles in 2 of these 5 games.

Freshman year:

12 games played 15 or more mins: 19.1 MPG, 8.4 PPG, 6.8 RPG, 0.8 BPG, 462% FG (37-80)

Now, some/most of these games were against the easier teams on the schedule...but also came during DaJuan's first 2 years here, so he's gained maturity/experience thru practice since then. These numbers (scoring & rebounding) are pretty nice a big guy dealing with weight/knee issues & relatively inexperienced in the college game.

I think if he regularly play's 20+ minutes its not unreasonable that he could be low double digit scorer and high single digit rebounded. I have a feeling he's going to be around 25min 12pts 8reb which if we can get 6pts 4reb out of Diange/Obokoh in those other 15min at the 5 then we would be in great shape. If Coleman averages 30min a game its going to be because he is healthy and beasting.

 

[jordoo]

Let's say Coleman is serviceable and more of a hustle force on both ends but not a guy we can throw the ball down in the low post and have him get a bucket like Rak. I posted the next part the other day and am curious what people think about how the offense will look. Thoughts?

What will the offense look like from a schematic standpoint? Especially if the shooting struggles continue? We are 18 points down with Rak gone. No double-teams to get kicks out to Cooney or Silent G like last season. Zero transition last season. I don't see some dribble-drive offense working unless last year's backcourt's handles get better or the incoming guys have better than advertised handles. Just curious.

I'm also interested in how the offense would be structured with no real low post threat and Joseph not being a threat to penetrate. Its hard to imagine and that's why I think Joseph and Coleman are the 2 big keys and biggest question marks going into next season. There success would mean much more freedon for Mike, Trevor and Tyler. Their lack of success would mean huge pressure and attention on Mike, Trevor and Tyler.

 

[jordoo]

I don't think a lot of people are giving Obokoh enough credit and I could be 100% wrong. Most people are writing him off. I know he hasn't really shown us anything, but let's pretend for a second he is a late learner and he comes back a completely different player. Besides, I think that scenario might have a little more plausibility than expecting him to graduate in three years.

I think he may improve but he didn't look to me like a player that was going to be more than a backup. Which is not to say he couldn't be a valuable piece at some point. That said next season IMO if Obokoh is playing regular minutes in meaningful games its likely a bad thing. Either Coleman is not playing, Diange is not ready or Diange is playing a lot of 4 because Joseph can't hack it and Mike was moved to the backcourt.

And yes Obokoh graduating in 3 could be a stretch. Again just something that I've seen come up here but I have absolutely no real info on.

 

[OttoMets]

Its interesting though because its POSSIBLE that Coleman and Diange wind up making the 5 spot a relative strength. Also our highest rated incoming freshman is a 2 and his best skill is long distance shooting plus we are starting a 5 year grad at the 2 who whatever his faults and shortcomings has won games for us making shots and when hot is as dangerous a shooter as anyone.

To me Joseph's development as a PG and Coleman's health/production are the keys to next years team.

Maybe my cynicism is getting in the way, but my thoughts on those two positions are as follows:

Center: Coleman doesn't play. Obokoh starts and is as passable as any second-year Syracuse big man (i.e., adequate rebounder, not a part of the offense, defensively improved but foul-prone). I don't know anything about Diagne but fear that his first-year ceiling is right around Obokoh's - Boeheim won't want him to shoot the ball and his unfamiliarity with the defense will lead to yelling.

Off-guard: come hell or high water, Cooney will play 37 minutes a game. 40 down the conference stretch. If he doesn't have a career year, we're not getting good (to say nothing of efficient) production from this spot. I hope the talented freshman behind him is the patient type.

Here's hoping I'm wrong.

 

[OttoMets]

Let's say Coleman is serviceable and more of a hustle force on both ends but not a guy we can throw the ball down in the low post and have him get a bucket like Rak. I posted the next part the other day and am curious what people think about how the offense will look. Thoughts?

What will the offense look like from a schematic standpoint? Especially if the shooting struggles continue? We are 18 points down with Rak gone. No double-teams to get kicks out to Cooney or Silent G like last season. Zero transition last season. I don't see some dribble-drive offense working unless last year's backcourt's handles get better or the incoming guys have better than advertised handles. Just curious.

We're going to see the Gbinije show. Typical Boeheim high pick and roll, isolation for the forward sort of offense. If the shooting struggles continue, we're in trouble.

Maybe it's a positive thing that our two best starters are forwards and our third is a point guard who I believe will show significant improvement?

 

[reedny]

I'm also interested in how the offense would be structured with no real low post threat and Joseph not being a threat to penetrate. Its hard to imagine and that's why I think Joseph and Coleman are the 2 big keys and biggest question marks going into next season. There success would mean much more freedon for Mike, Trevor and Tyler. Their lack of success would mean huge pressure and attention on Mike, Trevor and Tyler.

Good thread, Jordoo ... lots to think about. I agree with you and H/C that DC2 is a great kid to root for. We're all wishing the best for him after a couple of really frustrating years. That said, there are some serious concerns in the middle:

Defense:

Neither DC2 nor Obokoh has the explosive leaping or shot-blocking ability that we've been spoiled with the last few years. Diagne's coming in at around 6-8" - not exactly an intimidating presence in a league littered with 6-11/7 foot low post players. He's a beefy guy .. but I foresee problems with a center at that height -- especially when our 4 (TR) is 6-7, 205. So apart from DC2's rebounding (which is good), I think inside defense, rebounding and shot-blocking are big concerns.

Secondly, our zone requires the C to run out to defend the weakside corner sometimes. I'm having trouble imagining DC2 having the footspeed to do this. Same for Diagne. Question mark for Obokoh.

Offense:

DC2 has lots of potential as a scorer, let's hope he starts reaching it this year. He's a good O-rebounder and can get and keep position on the low block. He also has a short-range jumper and a soft touch around the rim. On the other hand, he has to rely on position because he doesn't play over the rim or dunk ferociously. So within his skillset, I don't think we can expect more than 10-12 ppg from him. Obokoh is not a scorer and has no b/b low block offensive game. So lack of inside scoring balance is probably going to be an issue.

Depth/Health

- Is DC2 fully recovered, moving well and can he run the court for 25 mpg?
- Can DC2 move his feet quickly enough to get out on a weakside corner shooter (as the zone occasionally requires)? Can he avoid foul trouble with only one backup with any D-1 experience?
- Can Obokoh himself avoid fouls/position problems on D to play 10-15 mpg?
- Diange's got bulk (250), but can he move, adjust to D-1 speed, block shots ... or shoot some of those mid-range shots we've seen him hit in the vids?

 

[jordoo]

Maybe my cynicism is getting in the way, but my thoughts on those two positions are as follows:

Center: Coleman doesn't play. Obokoh starts and is as passable as any second-year Syracuse big man (i.e., adequate rebounder, not a part of the offense, defensively improved but foul-prone). I don't know anything about Diagne but fear that his first-year ceiling is right around Obokoh's - Boeheim won't want him to shoot the ball and his unfamiliarity with the defense will lead to yelling.

Off-guard: come hell or high water, Cooney will play 37 minutes a game. 40 down the conference stretch. If he doesn't have a career year, we're not getting good (to say nothing of efficient) production from this spot. I hope the talented freshman behind him is the patient type.

Here's hoping I'm wrong.

Well if you do not expect Coleman to play and you feel that Diange will back up Obokoh and only give us what Obokoh gave us last year than I completely understand thinking this team will struggle. Do yourself a favor and check out Diange's thread on the recruiting side. He's physically ready for D1 now and although a bit short for a 5 he has a huge wingspan. He's also pretty well rounded offensively and at some point in his career at SU I expect him to be a regular scoring threat. That said he will be a freshman big and that's always going to bring some struggles with it. Word is that Coleman has been practicing at full speed since well before the season ended. He's lighter than he's ever been and getting more lift off the floor. In other words he has been running and jumping for a few months.

I think Diange worst case senario can give us what Rick Jackson did as a freshman (guessing here but 12min 4pts 3reb). He is however more advanced offensively, in better physical shape and a better athlete than Ricky was as a freshman IMO.