Why in the past few years have we not been able to land any top blue chip recruits?

[sufandu]

Be curious to know how many recruits we lost that then went someplace further from home than Syracuse was from their home?

Is Upstate NY producing any top prospects? Kids may be trying to stay closer to home with the unknowns from Covid and on a completely different front the unknown regarding who their head coach might end up being.

JJ Starling is from Bville and chose Notre Dame.

 

[sufandu]

True blue chips like Coleman, Owens, Pearl, Melo are few and far between. We never get them every year.

The top tier programs like Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas etc...get them much more regularly. We are in the next tier.

When Duke and Kentucky changed to become one and done revolving doors, instead of getting a blue chip and keep them for 2, 3, 4 years, they are only getting them for 1 year. It means they need to reup their blue chips every year. So their demand for blue chips went up, a lot. Less blue chips for the next tier.

Couple that with our decline, even though we are still top 10 in terms of BB tradition, dome, HOF coach, revenue etc...but from a recruit view point, it's whether you can get me ready for the NBA quickly and whether you can show case me on national TV. If you look at those alone I don't think we are top 10. We are up there or close to it for guards may be, we have never been there for centers.

It is what it is.

We aren't in the next tier anymore. We're lower than that. I don't think people expect multiple blue chips every year like Duke or Kentucky. The expectation is one every 2 or 3 years along with a good supporting cast that has us consistently in the top 25.

 

[Scooch]

We haven’t employed ace recruiters in several years.

 

[Arangeman]

We get McDowell’s All-Americans now

 

[kcsu]

We haven’t employed ace recruiters in several years.

Our head coach isnt an ace recruiter. That is the issue.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

A lot of truly elite kids want to step into a system they can hit the ground running with, contribute quickly, and be 1-2 years away from the NBA.

The 2-3 zone and the Boeheim offense and rotation ain't that.

Sure, we get some very good players, but I believe it puts us at a severe disadvantage re recuiting.

 

[doc05]

We get McDowell’s All-Americans now

Going for the Golden Arcs trophy.

 

[SBU72]

True blue chips like Coleman, Owens, Pearl, Melo are few and far between. We never get them every year.

The top tier programs like Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas etc...get them much more regularly. We are in the next tier.

When Duke and Kentucky changed to become one and done revolving doors, instead of getting a blue chip and keep them for 2, 3, 4 years, they are only getting them for 1 year. It means they need to reup their blue chips every year. So their demand for blue chips went up, a lot. Less blue chips for the next tier.

Couple that with our decline, even though we are still top 10 in terms of BB tradition, dome, HOF coach, revenue etc...but from a recruit view point, it's whether you can get me ready for the NBA quickly and whether you can show case me on national TV. If you look at those alone I don't think we are top 10. We are up there or close to it for guards may be, we have never been there for centers.

It is what it is.

It'll be interesting to see how Duke and UNC fair under new head coaches. When Kentucky changed hc, they brought in another big name coach. Duke and UNC did not. Coach K brought in his successor a year early to make the transition, so that may help. UNC did not. So if hc are the closer having a Scheyer or Davis show up at the door is different than a Calipari show up.

 

[SWC75]

I think most people think McDonald's All Americans when they hear blue chip. That or a 5 star rating.

Benny Williams had a 5 star rating. It might have been a different year if he was all he was cracked up to be.

 

[SWC75]

We get McDowell’s All-Americans now

No. We get Carrabba's All-Americans.

 

[RF2044]

Numerous reasons.

• Syracuse stopped pursuing truly elite blue chip talent after the first probation, when we stopped playing "the game"
• As soon as blue chip programs appear on a prospective recruit's radar, JB gives up
• JB doesn't have the energy to grind it out and pound the pavement on the recruiting trail anymore
• JB doesn't like to travel, so he delegates to his AC's to keep tabs on players we're recruiting, whereas other schools have their head coaches show up to watch players
• We're typecast as a "zone school," and some recruits don't want to play in a zone
• Our brand is strong, but there's no "buzz" around our program since we've been on the decline
• We haven't been really, truly good in a LONG time -- so we're not on the radar for most blue chip recruits
• Our current staff of assistant coaches are mediocre recruiters -- this should be a cautionary factor to pay attention to for anyone who thinks that promoting Red or GMac is a good idea

 

[SWC75]

Numerous reasons.

• Syracuse stopped pursuing truly elite blue chip talent after the first probation, when we stopped playing "the game"
• As soon as blue chip programs appear on a prospective recruit's radar, JB gives up
• JB doesn't have the energy to grind it out and pound the pavement on the recruiting trail anymore
• JB doesn't like to travel, so he delegates to his AC's to keep tabs on players we're recruiting, whereas other schools have their head coaches show up to watch players
• We're typecast as a "zone school," and some recruits don't want to play in a zone
• Our brand is strong, but there's no "buzz" around our program since we've been on the decline
• We haven't been really, truly good in a LONG time -- so we're not on the radar for most blue chip recruits
• Our current staff of assistant coaches are mediocre recruiters -- this should be a cautionary factor to pay attention to for anyone who thinks that promoting Red or GMac is a good idea

We haven't recruited elite blue chip talent since the first probation?

And putting together a 5 man, maybe 6 man class must take some effort.

 

[dasher]

We haven't recruited elite blue chip talent since the first probation?

And putting together a 5 man, maybe 6 man class must take some effort.

how many of those kids in the 6 man class did we need the Head Coach to go out and close the deal? At this stage of his life, JB doesn't hit the road like he did when he was younger. That's life.

 

[RF2044]

We haven't recruited elite blue chip talent since the first probation?

And putting together a 5 man, maybe 6 man class must take some effort.

Which players from our 5 maybe 6 person class do you consider elite blue chip talent?

And no, we haven't landed "elite blue chip talent" since that timeframe. Wallace was already in the fold. Who was the next one? Carmelo? Committed as a junior, ranked in the mid-30s. Then grew 3 inches and gained 30 pounds before he showed up on campus, and the rest is history.

Most of the players we end up being "elite" in our system are lower rated guys who substantially outshoot their rankings. Players like CJ Fair.

We also recruit a fair amount of players in the 50 - 70 range who end up having attractive NBA profiles and end up developing into prospects. Think: Jerami Grant and Tyler Lydon.

And if we are being truly honest -- and let's face it, being objective about the state of the program doesn't appear to be a strong suit for you -- we've only landed a handful of McD AA recruits dating back to the early 90s. Certainly not to the level that you'd expect a program of our stature / station to recruit. Want to know why? Because we've targeted those guys less and less over the years.

This past class that you reference, JB shot for the moon. We recruited a ton of highly rated guys... and missed out on all of them. Every single one. And we pivoted nicely and landed a bunch of players who seem like good program guys, good system fits. Which makes sense, because those types of players have been our bread and butter for a LONG time.

I think JB has done a great job landing guys who fit what we do as a program, and who have high athletic upside [for the most part]. But "elite blue chip talent?" We barely go after those guys and haven't for decades.

 

[SWC75]

Which players from our 5 maybe 6 person class do you consider elite blue chip talent?

And no, we haven't landed "elite blue chip talent" since that timeframe. Wallace was already in the fold. Who was the next one? Carmelo? Committed as a junior, ranked in the mid-30s.

Most of the players we end up being "elite" in our system are lower rated guys who substantially outshoot their rankings. Players like CJ Fair.

We also recruit a fair amount of players in the 50 - 70 range who end up having attractive NBA profiles and end up developing into prospects. Think: Jerami Grant and Tyler Lydon.

And if we are being truly honest -- and let's face it, being objective about the state of the program doesn't appear to be a strong suit for you -- we've only landed a handful of McD AA recruits dating back to the early 90s. Certainly not to the level that you'd expect a program of our stature / station to recruit. Want to know why? Because we've targeted those guys less and less over the years.

This past class that you reference, JB shot for the moon. We recruited a ton of highly rated guys... and missed out on all of them. Every single one. And we pivoted nicely and landed a bunch of players who seem like good program guys, good system fits. Which makes sense, because those types of players have been our bread and butter for a LONG time.

Carmelo wasn't elite?!? Did the same service "rank him in the 30's" that ranked Benny #32?

And you just said that JB "shot for the moon" with this last class. That sounds pretty ambitious. Even getting the guys we got must have taken some effort. And how do you know what he did or did not do?

 

[RF2044]

Carmelo wasn't elite?!? Did the same service "rank him in the 30's" that ranked Benny #32?

And you just said that JB "shot for the moon" with this last class. That sounds pretty ambitious. Even getting the guys we got must have taken some effort. And how do you know what he did or did not do?

You appear to be confused with how things end up vs. where they were as recruits.

And given that I listed Carmelo as the lone outlier example of elite players we landed across a nearly 30 year span, I'm genuinely confused by your reaction.

And finally, results matter. JB missed out on all of the top tier talent he chased. You don't get participation trophies when it comes to recruiting.

 

[Waltdods]

Which players from our 5 maybe 6 person class do you consider elite blue chip talent?

And no, we haven't landed "elite blue chip talent" since that timeframe. Wallace was already in the fold. Who was the next one? Carmelo? Committed as a junior, ranked in the mid-30s. Then grew 3 inches and gained 30 pounds before he showed up on campus, and the rest is history.

Most of the players we end up being "elite" in our system are lower rated guys who substantially outshoot their rankings. Players like CJ Fair.

We also recruit a fair amount of players in the 50 - 70 range who end up having attractive NBA profiles and end up developing into prospects. Think: Jerami Grant and Tyler Lydon.

And if we are being truly honest -- and let's face it, being objective about the state of the program doesn't appear to be a strong suit for you -- we've only landed a handful of McD AA recruits dating back to the early 90s. Certainly not to the level that you'd expect a program of our stature / station to recruit. Want to know why? Because we've targeted those guys less and less over the years.

This past class that you reference, JB shot for the moon. We recruited a ton of highly rated guys... and missed out on all of them. Every single one. And we pivoted nicely and landed a bunch of players who seem like good program guys, good system fits. Which makes sense, because those types of players have been our bread and butter for a LONG time.

I think JB has done a great job landing guys who fit what we do as a program, and who have high athletic upside [for the most part]. But "elite blue chip talent?" We barely go after those guys and haven't for decades.

I agree with your conclusions, but I'm not sold on the gave up on top guys line.

Post-Carmelo (who was the #1 or 2 recruit in the country that year), you had this run:

2006: Paul Harris (#12 recruit by Rivals)
2007: Donte Greene (#9), Jonny Flynn (#22)
2010: Fab Melo (#16), Dion Waiters (#29)
2011: Rakeem Christmas (#27)
2012: Dajuan Coleman (#26)
2014: Chris McCullough (#19)

Obviously, McCullough was now 8 years ago. That run above is where Syracuse needs to be talentwise - pulling on an average about one top 25 guy a year. Then fill in with the 50-100 rated guys that I agree have been the lifeblood of the program. (Even on this list above, I think you could argue that, with the exception of Flynn and perhaps Waiters, none of these guys were the best player on a team.)

 

[rrlbees]

You appear to be confused with how things end up vs. where they were as recruits.

And given that I listed Carmelo as the lone outlier example of elite players we landed across a nearly 30 year span, I'm genuinely confused by your reaction.

And finally, results matter. JB missed out on all of the top tier talent he chased. You don't get participation trophies when it comes to recruiting.

You and Steve are talking two different things.

 

[RF2044]

I agree with your conclusions, but I'm not sold on the gave up on top guys line.

Post-Carmelo (who was the #1 or 2 recruit in the country that year), you had this run:

2006: Paul Harris (#12 recruit by Rivals)
2007: Donte Greene (#9), Jonny Flynn (#22)
2010: Fab Melo (#16), Dion Waiters (#29)
2011: Rakeem Christmas (#27)
2012: Dajuan Coleman (#26)
2014: Chris McCullough (#19)

Obviously, McCullough was now 8 years ago. That run above is where Syracuse needs to be talentwise - pulling on an average about one top 25 guy a year. Then fill in with the 50-100 rated guys that I agree have been the lifeblood of the program. (Even on this list above, I think you could argue that, with the exception of Flynn and perhaps Waiters, none of these guys were the best player on a team.)

I guess I don't consider guys rated in the 20s as being "elite blue chippers."

But want to know what stands out on this last for me? Harris was nearly 20 years ago. The last guy listed was 8 years ago. That's an eternity in college basketball years. The dropoff has been steep with our target profile.

But thank you for compiling this -- appreciate the effort.

 

[Waltdods]

I guess I don't consider guys rated in the 20s as being "elite blue chippers."

But want to know what stands out on this last for me? Harris was nearly 20 years ago. The last guy listed was 8 years ago. That's an eternity in college basketball years. The dropoff has been steep with our target profile.

But thank you for compiling this -- appreciate the effort.

I agree very strongly with the recruiting dropoff. If anything, I think you were kind of underselling it by linking it to the first probation.

Another way to look at it is to compare this year's big class to earlier ones. Syracuse had two big classes in the late aughts that really set the stage for the great 09-14 run: 2007 and 2010. In 2007, Syracuse had four guys who were higher rated than anyone in this year's class (Greene, Flynn, Jardine, Jackson). In 2010, there were three (Melo, Waiters, Fair). The top guys SU is getting now would have been a nice fourth or fifth piece 10 years ago. I've got a lot of confidence one or two them will prove to be very good players, but ...

 

[cuseincincy]

JJ Starling is from Bville and chose Notre Dame.

JJ is spending his last 2 years of high school 30 minutes from the Notre Dame campus.

 

[Cusefan0307]

JJ is spending his last 2 years of high school 30 minutes from the Notre Dame campus.

It’s a bad miss. His family is from here and his dad is an SU fan that grew up with Laz Sims. There’s no sugarcoating it.

 

[cuseincincy]

Kamari was never actually interested, evidenced by the fact that he never visited. Darius bazely got offered 1 million to practice, I’d take that deal also. Dior was never going to be a fit for JB.

Players that were "never actually interested" rarely commit somewhere. Kamari rescinded his commit I believe the day after (or so) that the new NIL rules were released. Loserville ended up outbidding us.

 

[grepal]

Why can't SU year in and year out come close to snagging blue chip recruits like Coach K., Roy Williams, John Capalari et al have? We've a great venue and experienced coach, why oh why can't we once in awhile grab any of the top ten players in the USA and Europe?

First, Benny was blue chip recruit. Sometimes they need to develop. Three top recruits were landed and flipped Bazley, Lands and this year we lost a top-rated guard, brain forgets who but I am old. My guess was sanctions hampered us and now it is very easy to recruit against us due to telling a recruit do you know who the coach will be in a year.

 

[Cuse181]

Players that were "never actually interested" rarely commit somewhere. Kamari rescinded his commit I believe the day after (or so) that the new NIL rules were released. Loserville ended up outbidding us.

He never visited campus and had limited contact with the coaches prior to his commitment. Maybe he did have interest, but it sure seemed like he lost interest quickly.