Why Not Us?

[Nicknack]

I'll start off by saying that it absolutely pains me to use Butgers and Dook as examples here, but I will in order to serve a point. I know there are many other programs I could include, but I'll just use these two for now.

How the heck do two programs that were arguably one of the worst in the nation for YEARS rebuild and become relevant? As much as I can't stand Schiano, what he and his staff did to attract recruits to RU when they were the definition of bad, is amazing to me. What happened under his watch is really impressive no matter what you think of the guy. He sold kids on the program somehow and kept SU from raiding the cupboards in Jersey.

Then there is Cutcliffe and the job that he has done at Dook. Again, absolutely remarkable. Dook, a school NO ONE ever respected in football, has built a program that is now relevant. It is also a program that is attracting solid talent (currently ranked #28 according to 247 sports).

Then we have SU who has tradition 10x that of both these schools that continues to struggle. We get to the point where we have a recruiting class ranked in the high 40's and we celebrate. Don't get me wrong, I'm usually very optimistic when it comes to SU (which is why I often stay off the board when things get negative). I also get that it doesn't happen over night. I always support the coaches and certainly the players even at times when it is hard to do. I will never lose faith in the Orange... I'm just so tired of struggling to get to a bowl game year after year while a team like Dook posts 10 wins.

If Dook, Butgers and other such schools can do what they have, then why not us? Who knows, maybe we are on our way and there is a lot more football to be played this season. It starts with a W this Friday night. We can't afford to go 2-3 going into the FSU game.

 

[Cusetime]

The season is not over, we are getting better and our talent is improved. We need to stop the mistakes and penalties with a little better play calling. Rutgers may not win
another game this season.

 

[orangeinjersey]

I'll start off by saying that it absolutely pains me to use Butgers and Dook as examples here, but I will in order to serve a point. I know there are many other programs I could include, but I'll just use these two for now.

How the heck do two programs that were arguably one of the worst in the nation for YEARS rebuild and become relevant? As much as I can't stand Schiano, what he and his staff did to attract recruits to RU when they were the definition of bad, is amazing to me. What happened under his watch is really impressive no matter what you think of the guy. He sold kids on the program somehow and kept SU from raiding the cupboards in Jersey.

Then there is Cutcliffe and the job that he has done at Dook. Again, absolutely remarkable. Dook, a school NO ONE ever respected in football, has built a program that is now relevant. It is also a program that is attracting solid talent (currently ranked #28 according to 247 sports).

Then we have SU who has tradition 10x that of both these schools that continues to struggle. We get to the point where we have a recruiting class ranked in the high 40's and we celebrate. Don't get me wrong, I'm usually very optimistic when it comes to SU (which is why I often stay off the board when things get negative). I also get that it doesn't happen over night. I always support the coaches and certainly the players even at times when it is hard to do. I will never lose faith in the Orange... I'm just so tired of struggling to get to a bowl game year after year while a team like Dook posts 10 wins.

If Dook, Butgers and other such schools can do what they have, then why not us? Who knows, maybe we are on our way and there is a lot more football to be played this season. It starts with a W this Friday night. We can't afford to go 2-3 going into the FSU game.

They can pass the ball? They can put up points?

 

[SWC75]

Throw in Wake Forest under Grobe, Central Florida, Boise State. There are a lot of schools with either no history or a less than ideal situation who have proven that you can build a good football program even if you aren't a football factory.

 

[Halo]

Because NY state produces so few D1 prospects compared to other states.

 

[Orangello]

You lost me at Rutgirls. They are not and never will be relevant except in their own delusional minds.

Duke on the other hand is a perfect example of taking a perennial dog and turing it around the right way. What Cutcliffe has done there in 6 years is nothing short of amazing. It just reinforces how critically important a good HC and staff can be in turning a situation around.

 

[Nicknack]

Rutgers may not win
another game this season.

Schiano is no longer there. If Cutcliffe leaves tomorrow (which he won't obviously), Duke returns to its former state most likely. My point was to shine the light on what these two coaches did with with programs that were arguably the least respected in the country when they arrived. We are far ahead of where these two programs were when Shafer and company took over which is one reason I'm still optimistic that we will continue to improve.

 

[SmilinBob]

Ironically both of those schools play a very poor OOC.

 

[PhatOrange]

You lost me at Rutgirls. They are not and never will be relevant except in their own delusional minds.

Duke on the other hand is a perfect example of taking a perennial dog and turing it around the right way. What Cutcliffe has done there in 6 years is nothing short of amazing. It just reinforces how critically important a good HC and staff can be in turning a situation around.

Not directed at you, just a general comment with something you wrote.

6 years - took him 5. we're in year 1.3 with the current staff.

 

[orangeinjersey]

Throw in Wake Forest under Grobe, Central Florida, Boise State. There are a lot of schools with either no history or a less than ideal situation who have proven that you can build a good football program even if you aren't a football factory.

These guys all have very early round NFL draft football talent, particularly at skill positions. Unit we get a guy or two like that, we are what we are.

 

[Nicknack]

You lost me at Rutgirls. They are not and never will be relevant except in their own delusional minds.

They weren't relevant in 2006? Hmm... 9-0 and #6 in the country at one time to finish the season 11-2 (along with coach of the year honors for Schiano). I wish we could be irrelevant. Again, I hate to use Rutgers as an example of anything good, but to not give them credit for what was accomplished under Schiano is a bit short sighted in my opinion.

 

[Orangello]

Not directed at you, just a general comment with something you wrote.

6 years - took him 5. we're in year 1.3 with the current staff.

Indeed, patience is a virtue that is in short supply in a frustrated fanbase. Cutcliffe's records at Duke:

4-8
5-7
3-9
3-9
6-7
10-4
4-1

 

[Alsacs]

Those teams play nobody in the non-conference. Rutgers has gone from pure crap to our level now.
Cutcliffe at Duke took 5 years to develop talent. Our 2012 team should have won 10 games. We threw away our chance at a special year that season. Marrone knew that and smartly took a promotion instead of taking the lumps we are now going thru. We are lucky Marrone/Shafer stockpiled enough talent to prevent us from bottoming out like we did under GRob.

 

[Orangello]

They weren't relevant in 2006? Hmm... 9-0 and #6 in the country at one time to finish the season 11-2 (along with coach of the year honors for Schiano). I wish we could be irrelevant. Again, I hate to use Rutgers as an example of anything good, but to not give them credit for what was accomplished under Schiano is a bit short sighted in my opinion.

One good year doesn't make a program relevant. If that's the yardstick then every D1 program that ever had a 9 or 10 win season is relevant and that includes Indiana, Vandy, Kentucky, SMU, Iowa State, BC, Washington State etc. Not exactly who comes to mind when I think about consistent top 25 programs.

 

[upperdeck]

was listening to XM this morning and they made the comment about Miles will never go back to Michigan because you cant recruit up there any more and be relevant. If michigan cant do it how will we ever be more than a every few years program? But really all it takes is a NFL guy at a key spot and these days its a WR or QB that can make plays and you can compete. Even the ND game shows you that with 2nd tier talent we are not that far away from competing against anyone except the top tier teams. Our reality is that you need those kids to be 3-4 yr kids in the program and right now our best kids are not their yet.. but if we have 3-4 Phillips and 3-4 Estimes and not just the two that are Fr/So we can compete. ISh/Custis/Estime/Phillips are good enough to compete with but trying to have them do it as FR is asking a bit. But if we bring in 2-3 more the next 2 years you may not have the elite game breaker but you will have 7-8 who can make plays . Elevate the QB play by 25% and then we have an offense. Elevate the oline by 25% and we are right there with anyone in the ACC outside of FSU and Clemson right now.

Duke has a really good QB right now. will they every year? Look what happens to VT when they go down a notch at QB and WR.. it happens to all the teams, even LSU has taken a step back this year with a less than top level QB

 

[TheCusian]

Yep. If Rutgers and Dook both played our schedule - Rutgers would have the same or worse record and Duke would have gotten waxed last weekend too. They lost to Miami.

Rutgers is honestly all smoke and mirrors. They've risen from the bottom of the barrel to mediocre (where you could argue that they should have been given their big state school status).

Duke has a special offensive minded coach. We have a pretty good defensive minded coach.

 

[orangeinjersey]

Ironically both of those schools play a very poor OOC.

Once again, we are playing too TOUGH a schedule.

Look at the data

Duke 2014 OCC:
Elon, Troy, Kansas, Tulane,
Combined Record: 4-14
Avg opponent Sagarin: 152

Rutgers 2014 OOC:
Washington, Howard, Navy, Tulane
Combined records: 6-14
Avg opponent Sagarin rank: 118

Maryland 2014 OOC:
JMU, USF, Syr, WVa
Combined Record: 8-10
Avg opponent Sagarin: 86

Syracuse OOC:
Nova, CMU, Md, ND
Combined Record: 13-5
Avg Sagarin Ranking: 62

We fight claw and take key injury hits playing tough OOC games, for what? Duke, Rutty, etc all play cupcakes, inflate the win total, sell the bowls, sell the 8-9 win seasons, recruit better, get better. We simplay are INCAPABLE OF FOLLOWING that same formula.

 

[cuseinchina]

Look at NC state this year... I know it's early but they had a good chance against Fl State and are 4-1.

 

[upperdeck]

rutgers can luck out to a bowl this year too.. WSU was a lucky win, PSU is below avg and they almost won, Mich is worst team in 50 years it seems, so they may win this week. but they need to still find one more and Ind/Mary will not be easy. they really need to win this week or they could lose the last 7-8

 

[orangeinjersey]

Look at NC state this year... I know it's early but they had a good chance against Fl State and are 4-1.

NCState OOC:
Georgia Southern, ODU, USF, Presbytyrian
Combined Record: 10-9
Avg Sagarin Rank: 138

again, playing nobody

 

[orangeinjersey]

Our OOC schedule should look like this...

FAU/FIU (South Florida Recruiting)
NIU/Directional Michigan (Illinois Recruiting)
Colgate/Bucknell (local gimmies/scrimmages)
Low level power 5 in our recruiting area

We should GUARANTEE a 3-1/4-0 start EVERY YEAR.

 

[NineOneSeven]

NCState OOC:
Georgia Southern, ODU, USF, Presbytyrian
Combined Record: 10-9
Avg Sagarin Rank: 138

again, playing nobody

SOS matters in basketball.

To the general topic- tradition means nothing. Whatever happened 10, 25, 50 years ago means nothing to new recruits, imo.

"Hey look, we've had Ernie Davis, Jim Brown, McNabb, etc, etc, come play at our school!".

Negative.

 

[orangeinjersey]

SOS matters in basketball.

To the general topic- tradition means nothing. Whatever happened 10, 25, 50 years ago means nothing to new recruits, imo.

"Hey look, we've had Ernie Davis, Jim Brown, McNabb, etc, etc, come play at our school!".

Negative.

Dude, I AGREE WITH YOU. We should be lining up the cupcakes

 

[NineOneSeven]

Our OOC schedule should look like this...

FAU/FIU (South Florida Recruiting)
NIU/Directional Michigan (Illinois Recruiting)
Colgate/Bucknell (local gimmies/scrimmages)
Low level power 5 in our recruiting area

We should GUARANTEE a 3-1/4-0 start EVERY YEAR.

We would turn into the team this board has ripped for that exact reason, and has a strange obsession with.

 

[cuseinchina]

NCState OOC:
Georgia Southern, ODU, USF, Presbytyrian
Combined Record: 10-9
Avg Sagarin Rank: 138

again, playing nobody

but what is the perception? The perception is that the new guy has come in, improved recruiting, lured in some high quality transfers, and is winning games they should and hanging in with the no. 1 team in the country. Perception sells itself to recruits and that perpetuates the progression.

Plus their offense looked far more effective versus Florida state than ours has ever looked under McD.


Crucially, they didn't have a quarterback who allowed them to compete so they went out and got one - who could play right away. We have a couple guys who may pan out in a couple years...but until then we will be waiting and hoping, struggling to get to bowl games which we must do to maintain any recruiting momentum. At some point you go from being the team that is coming on strong after a bad few years to being the team that is viewed as middling and struggles to get to that low tier bowl. Without continued progression momentum dies out.