Will Cuse/Pitt replace Florida State/Clemson? | Syracusefan.com

Will Cuse/Pitt replace Florida State/Clemson?

fanfanclubclub

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It doesn't seem likely that the ACC is actually being proactive with this move: since neither the ND or Texas dominoes have fallen yet, and even many of the smaller dominoes (Okla, SEC expansion) are still in limbo. Might it be the case that the SEC expansion (FSU, Clemson) is really driving the behind-the-scenes movement, and the ACC is simply patching the boat while they wait on ND/Texas?

I like the strategy of locking up NYC before the Big 10 moves in, but I don't think that the ACC has accomplished that goal. By grabbing Pitt instead of UConn, this move doesn't seem ideally tailored to maximizing NYC market appeal. If the Big 10 grabs Rutgers, UConn, and Notre Dame, NYC would be a Big 10 town, it would be hard to say that Syracuse and Pitt were bringing NYC to the ACC.

As an isolated move, Cuse/Pitt to the ACC doesn't make a ton of sense right now. It makes sense from the Syracuse perspective: getting back to rivalries with Miami, VT, BC, and adding a rivalry with Maryland. But I cannot imagine that the highest priority for the ACC is to add upstate NY and western Pennsylvania TV markets, and by choosing Pitt over UConn, this expansion move does not have the NYC cache that a Cuse/UConn addition would have.

I think most insiders regarded the SEC as being the most proactive behind the scenes, while the BIG 10 and the ACC were consider to be prioritizing the ND and Texas situation. I suspect that this meme is likely true, and that the ACC "aggression" we are seeing is actually a reaction to 'in-the-works' SEC manouvers that have not officially been announced. I think the ACC simply decided to go public with the moves first.
 

zibby

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There have been multiple reports that the ACC presidents unanimously agreed to up the buyout to $20 million. Why would anyone agree to that if they thought they were about to leave? Even with the additional money the SEC gets, it would still take several years to make up that $20 million.
 

fanfanclubclub

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There have been multiple reports that the ACC presidents unanimously agreed to up the buyout to $20 million. Why would anyone agree to that if they thought they were about to leave? Even with the additional money the SEC gets, it would still take several years to make up that $20 million.

Decisions like this are almost always reached "unanimously," even when the decisions are far from unanimous, so that the decision makers can hold their cards close to their vest.

What good does it do Clemson or Florida State to vote no, only to lose the vote 10-2? Such a move would only reveal their intentions, thereby giving everyone else a leg-up and diminishing the strategic advantages that the SEC expansion opportunity presents to those schools.

Other than Al Davis and his charming "abstain" votes at NFL owner meetings, most all decisions made collectively by sports institutions are unanimous.
 

kyleslamb

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Decisions like this are almost always reached "unanimously," even when the decisions are far from unanimous, so that the decision makers can hold their cards close to their vest.

What good does it do Clemson or Florida State to vote no, only to lose the vote 10-2? Such a move would only reveal their intentions, thereby giving everyone else a leg-up and diminishing the strategic advantages that the SEC expansion opportunity presents to those schools.

So, so true.

It would be political suicide for any ACC member to vote "no" to upping the exit fees. It's just not smart as it would destroy their plausible deniability. I have believed from day one the ACC would lose 2-3 teams before this is all done. I believe Florida State and Virginia Tech are the prime suspects and I still believe Maryland is flirting with the Big Ten.
 

mojaveheel

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interesting...

can you tell me the last time an ACC team was poached?

that's right...

never!

not SCeast, they left and almost died for 20 years as an independent, until the SEC took pity on them...

the ACC members meant what they said and several have turned down overtures to move elsewhere in recent years...

other folks can pretend all they want, but the unanimous vote to double the buy out speaks a lot louder than any claims to the contrary...
 

jordoo

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interesting...

can you tell me the last time an ACC team was poached?

that's right...

never!

not SCeast, they left and almost died for 20 years as an independent, until the SEC took pity on them...

the ACC members meant what they said and several have turned down overtures to move elsewhere in recent years...

other folks can pretend all they want, but the unanimous vote to double the buy out speaks a lot louder than any claims to the contrary...

With the ACC is bringing in PITT and SU why wouldn't all the existing members vote to increase the buy out? They are moving to a real position of strength on the east coast super conference wise. 14 teams football and basketball with stability.
 

WoadBlue

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There have been multiple reports that the ACC presidents unanimously agreed to up the buyout to $20 million. Why would anyone agree to that if they thought they were about to leave? Even with the additional money the SEC gets, it would still take several years to make up that $20 million.

Correct. That added buyout was to signal to other schools that the ACC is stable, which means there is no risk of joining ansd then seeing 2 or 3 major members leave next month.
 

DomeStranger

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As an isolated move, Cuse/Pitt to the ACC doesn't make a ton of sense right now. It makes sense from the Syracuse perspective: getting back to rivalries with Miami, VT, BC, and adding a rivalry with Maryland. But I cannot imagine that the highest priority for the ACC is to add upstate NY and western Pennsylvania TV markets, and by choosing Pitt over UConn, this expansion move does not have the NYC cache that a Cuse/UConn addition would have.

You're right, it doesn't make a ton of sense. Either ACC suspects losing a member (or two soon) or it's almost sounding like Cuse/Pitt may have got an offer from the Big 10. Before accepting I could see SU & Pitt banding together and offering themselves as a package deal to the ACC letting them know, it's now or never. Maybe the ACC felt it was better picking them up now rather than picking from lesser options down the road.
 

Dick_in_MI

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You're right, it doesn't make a ton of sense. Either ACC suspects losing a member (or two soon) or it's almost sounding like Cuse/Pitt may have got an offer from the Big 10. Before accepting I could see SU & Pitt banding together and offering themselves as a package deal to the ACC letting them know, it's now or never. Maybe the ACC felt it was better picking them up now rather than picking from lesser options down the road.

If Pitt had an offer from the B10, they'd already be scraping the BE logo off of everything in sight. No way would they turn around and try to get SU to package with them to the ACC. B10>ACC for Pitt
 

orange79

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Correct. That added buyout was to signal to other schools that the ACC is stable, which means there is no risk of joining ansd then seeing 2 or 3 major members leave next month.

^^^This^^^
 

Chip

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If Pitt had an offer from the B10, they'd already be scraping the BE logo off of everything in sight. No way would they turn around and try to get SU to package with them to the ACC. B10>ACC for Pitt

And the reason that Pitt isn't getting that invite from the Big 10 is the same reason Clemson, and probably FSU, won't be getting into the SEC. What do they bring to the table? I don't think 80,000 seat stadiums are enough. Need new states in this era of expansion.
 

fanfanclubclub

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And the reason that Pitt isn't getting that invite from the Big 10 is the same reason Clemson, and probably FSU, won't be getting into the SEC. What do they bring to the table? I don't think 80,000 seat stadiums are enough. Need new states in this era of expansion.

There are a lot more conditional offers out there than most people realize. The TV executives are driving the car, not the schools. The TV executives want 16 teams, so because the SEC, PAC-12, Big-10, and ACC all have to add teams in order to maximize their revenue, Pitt becomes pretty attractive to several conferences: and that is why the Big 10 already gave a conditional offer to Pitt, while waiting on Notre Dame/Texas.

The "no duplicate states" meme is greatly exaggerated.

With the ACC is bringing in PITT and SU why wouldn't all the existing members vote to increase the buy out? They are moving to a real position of strength on the east coast super conference wise. 14 teams football and basketball with stability.

The ACC is very likely to lose teams, as the unanimous vote means absolutely nothing. Anyone who thinks that increasing the buy out was a proactive move of strength, rather than a reactionary move of quasi-desperation, doesn't have good contacts in the industry and hasn't really been paying attention. The ACC does not have a position of strength yet: the big dominoes are yet to fall.
 

Chip

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I'm not in the business, but it seems odd to me that the TV execs are telling the SEC, you know what you guys need is another team in South Carolina.
 
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44USMC

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It seems as if the buyout increase demonstrated the ACC's stability. Then, SU and Pitt decided that they would be secure by making the move to a more stable conference.
 

sufandu

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I'm curious to know what FSU would gain by going to the SEC, if offered. The ACC is strong enough for them to get to a NC game if they run the table, and as of right now, they have an easier road to get there. Is the tv money in the SEC that much better than the ACC? Would they gain much in recruiting by jumping?
 

Madbiker

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It doesn't seem likely that the ACC is actually being proactive with this move: since neither the ND or Texas dominoes have fallen yet, and even many of the smaller dominoes (Okla, SEC expansion) are still in limbo. Might it be the case that the SEC expansion (FSU, Clemson) is really driving the behind-the-scenes movement, and the ACC is simply patching the boat while they wait on ND/Texas?

I like the strategy of locking up NYC before the Big 10 moves in, but I don't think that the ACC has accomplished that goal. By grabbing Pitt instead of UConn, this move doesn't seem ideally tailored to maximizing NYC market appeal. If the Big 10 grabs Rutgers, UConn, and Notre Dame, NYC would be a Big 10 town, it would be hard to say that Syracuse and Pitt were bringing NYC to the ACC.

As an isolated move, Cuse/Pitt to the ACC doesn't make a ton of sense right now. It makes sense from the Syracuse perspective: getting back to rivalries with Miami, VT, BC, and adding a rivalry with Maryland. But I cannot imagine that the highest priority for the ACC is to add upstate NY and western Pennsylvania TV markets, and by choosing Pitt over UConn, this expansion move does not have the NYC cache that a Cuse/UConn addition would have.

I think most insiders regarded the SEC as being the most proactive behind the scenes, while the BIG 10 and the ACC were consider to be prioritizing the ND and Texas situation. I suspect that this meme is likely true, and that the ACC "aggression" we are seeing is actually a reaction to 'in-the-works' SEC manouvers that have not officially been announced. I think the ACC simply decided to go public with the moves first.
The notion that UConn & Rutgers somehow deliver the NYC market better than SU is just wrong. I can tell you that 90% of UConn's fan base is in northern CT from New Haven to Storrs, not in Fairfield County. As for RU... few of their games are even on TV in NYC while most of SU's games are. I'm sure there is as reason for that...like viewership. Not saying SU delivers NYC ADI, but we're a hell of a lot stronger than either of UC or RU. SU is not limited to just upstate NY.
 

kyleslamb

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There are a lot more conditional offers out there than most people realize. The TV executives are driving the car, not the schools. The TV executives want 16 teams, so because the SEC, PAC-12, Big-10, and ACC all have to add teams in order to maximize their revenue, Pitt becomes pretty attractive to several conferences: and that is why the Big 10 already gave a conditional offer to Pitt, while waiting on Notre Dame/Texas.

The "no duplicate states" meme is greatly exaggerated.

The ACC is very likely to lose teams, as the unanimous vote means absolutely nothing. Anyone who thinks that increasing the buy out was a proactive move of strength, rather than a reactionary move of quasi-desperation, doesn't have good contacts in the industry and hasn't really been paying attention. The ACC does not have a position of strength yet: the big dominoes are yet to fall.

First...

TV executives are not driving anything with the Big Ten. No ifs, ands or buts about it. The Big Ten is not listening to ESPN or any other media outlets tell them who to take in expansion. If that were the case, the Big Ten simply would have offered Oklahoma, Texas, Notre Dame and take your pick of a fourth team. But that's not the case. The BTN is certainly a huge factor in the Big Ten's plans, but Pitt does absolutely nothing for the Big Ten Network, as they already have the Pittsburgh market under lock & key.

Second, if TV executives are driving the bus, then I trust you know why TV executives would not want "duplicate states" in conference expansion, because I'll trust you understand the dynamics of television ratings and how in-conference games in a market score nearly 3-4 times higher than the same conference games outside of the conference boundaries. This is to say that by adding new markets, the conference ratings actually increase (think about it: fans of a team within a conference are more likely to watch games within the same conference as there is a direct competition against their rivals).

All you need to know about Notre Dame's intentions is to see what's going on with their hockey program. People need to read between the lines. They're not sitting on the sidelines fighting for their dying independence. They've accepted their future fate and it's just a matter of "when" rather than "if." This isn't a secret to schools that have been in a contact with Notre Dame. So if Pitt ever had any conditional offer (and they don't nor have they), they'd not be making this move.
 

IthacaMatt

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It doesn't seem likely that the ACC is actually being proactive with this move: since neither the ND or Texas dominoes have fallen yet, and even many of the smaller dominoes (Okla, SEC expansion) are still in limbo. Might it be the case that the SEC expansion (FSU, Clemson) is really driving the behind-the-scenes movement, and the ACC is simply patching the boat while they wait on ND/Texas?

I like the strategy of locking up NYC before the Big 10 moves in, but I don't think that the ACC has accomplished that goal. By grabbing Pitt instead of UConn, this move doesn't seem ideally tailored to maximizing NYC market appeal. If the Big 10 grabs Rutgers, UConn, and Notre Dame, NYC would be a Big 10 town, it would be hard to say that Syracuse and Pitt were bringing NYC to the ACC.

As an isolated move, Cuse/Pitt to the ACC doesn't make a ton of sense right now. It makes sense from the Syracuse perspective: getting back to rivalries with Miami, VT, BC, and adding a rivalry with Maryland. But I cannot imagine that the highest priority for the ACC is to add upstate NY and western Pennsylvania TV markets, and by choosing Pitt over UConn, this expansion move does not have the NYC cache that a Cuse/UConn addition would have.

I think most insiders regarded the SEC as being the most proactive behind the scenes, while the BIG 10 and the ACC were consider to be prioritizing the ND and Texas situation. I suspect that this meme is likely true, and that the ACC "aggression" we are seeing is actually a reaction to 'in-the-works' SEC manouvers that have not officially been announced. I think the ACC simply decided to go public with the moves first.
It's getting 2 of the 3 best football brands from the Big East, and destabilizes the conference further, just like the move in 2003 did. West Virginia was not a fit culturally. They will wind up in the SEC, or remain in the Big East after it combines with what's left of the Big 12.
 

PoppyHart

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The notion that UConn & Rutgers somehow deliver the NYC market better than SU is just wrong. I can tell you that 90% of UConn's fan base is in northern CT from New Haven to Storrs, not in Fairfield County. As for RU... few of their games are even on TV in NYC while most of SU's games are. I'm sure there is as reason for that...like viewership. Not saying SU delivers NYC ADI, but we're a hell of a lot stronger than either of UC or RU. SU is not limited to just upstate NY.

NJ does have nearly 9 million people btw.
 

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