would SS have got that one more year

[upperdeck]

It really is amazing how people only adjust close losses up, and never adjust close losses down.

We were OT against CMU and a last play FG against BC, both crappy teams, from being 2-10. Maybe in an alternate universe we lose those games, but beat UVA and Pitt, and are...4-8.

but the score of the game had nothing to do with the way the game was played.. CMU was over when dungey got hurt, BC had 2-3 plays the whole game that worked. they fact we kept them in the game doesnt really reflect how the game was going.

if our QB makes decent throws we score 2 tds on deep balls.

if the BC qb makes decent throws they complete 3-4 balls in the flats.

virg/pitt we barely even trailed in those games and lost and the same for CMU.

its not like we found a way to get back into those games. wake was our one come from behind game and once we did we took over

 

[TheCusian]

Maybe, but that's on Shafer. He owns his staff decisions. The O still stunk this year. Injuries were a part of that. Not all of it though.

Agreed. I'm not saying it would have def been another year. It may very well have been the same outcome. But coaching turmoil was the other half of the crap 2014 sandwich.

To be clear - Shafer owns all of the offensive ineptitude. I just think continuity and the right hire in 2013 could have been the difference.

 

[TheCusian]

...cleaned up penalties, less confusion. Isn't that on the staff??????

Yep. That's why the McDonald hire doomed him. He was a bad hire and in addition to not knowing what he was doing - the team imploded via penalties and looked confused. Follow along.

 

[VirginiaOrange]

but the score of the game had nothing to do with the way the game was played.. CMU was over when dungey got hurt, BC had 2-3 plays the whole game that worked. they fact we kept them in the game doesnt really reflect how the game was going.

if our QB makes decent throws we score 2 tds on deep balls.

if the BC qb makes decent throws they complete 3-4 balls in the flats.

virg/pitt we barely even trailed in those games and lost and the same for CMU.

its not like we found a way to get back into those games. wake was our one come from behind game and once we did we took over

If SU had made a better hire years ago we would not be in this mess.

 

[Scooch]

but the score of the game had nothing to do with the way the game was played.. CMU was over when dungey got hurt, BC had 2-3 plays the whole game that worked. they fact we kept them in the game doesnt really reflect how the game was going. if our QB makes decent throws we score 2 tds on deep balls. if the BC qb makes decent throws they complete 3-4 balls in the flats. virg/pitt we barely even trailed in those games and lost and the same for CMU. its not like we found a way to get back into those games. wake was our one come from behind game and once we did we took over

All sorts of ifs. Reality is that we were as close to 2-10 as we were to 6-6, and we were 4-8. All things considered our record seems to be a pretty good indicator of our season.

 

[TheCusian]

If your boy Lester is sooooo good...as an OC at a P5...he should get a HC job at no lower than a d1aa. A the freaken SAP.

Not my boy. Just saying if take him over McDonald. And about 3 dozen guys over either of them.

You'd rather have McDonald?

 

[upperdeck]

but is 4-8 an indicator of what next season would have been? i think the D was taking a big jump next year and who knows about the offense

 

[Statesman1]

It really is amazing how people only adjust close losses up, and never adjust close losses down.

We were OT against CMU and a last play FG against BC, both crappy teams, from being 2-10. Maybe in an alternate universe we lose those games, but beat UVA and Pitt, and are...4-8.

And who can forget the squeaker over Villanova-at home- requiring a fake to put us over the hump. The lack of quality wins was damning and the failure to improve in game with adjustments and over the course of the last two seasons was the tell-

 

[VirginiaOrange]

but is 4-8 an indicator of what next season would have been? i think the D was taking a big jump next year and who knows about the offense

What makes you think the defense is taking a big jump? Serious question as I don't see it with the lack of depth at DL and DB unless you are assuming this year's redshirts are going to come in and kill it.

 

[upperdeck]

the issue was less talent than mental mistakes and being undersized. they will all get bigger faster. go watch the game film and see how many times the WR big plays were because the DBs messed up assignments. and there were a ton of big plays where the other teams made great throws and catches into pretty good coverage. they were not all bad plays that killed us.

i dont know what the DL will do. but we played the last 2 weeks with tackles and small LB at DE. that wont work for any team . we had clark and DE yesterday. the DT play will even get better next year, the DE play could be a huge issue though. not worried about the DBs when so many kids played so young.

 

[TexanMark]

It really is amazing how people only adjust close losses up, and never adjust close losses down.

We were OT against CMU and a last play FG against BC, both crappy teams, from being 2-10. Maybe in an alternate universe we lose those games, but beat UVA and Pitt, and are...4-8.

But CMU was never to be close...remember Dungey was rolling then he was assaulted by the CMU LBer?

BC was generally thought to be a win all year long.

 

[djorange1989]

The only thing that would have gotten SS another year is if Gross hadn't been canned. Coyle was ready to move on even before the season, IMO, and just needed this season as affirmation to do that. He got it.

 

[Jeepers]

And who can forget the squeaker over Villanova-at home- requiring a fake to put us over the hump. The lack of quality wins was damning and the failure to improve in game with adjustments and over the course of the last two seasons was the tell-

The Villanova game was really what started me questioning Shafer. Most frustrating cuse game I've ever seen. USF was pretty bad, too (coming off of a bye).

It really comes down to where we were when Shafer took over. Sure, Nassib/etc. were gone, but no way we should have fallen so fast. There are a million bowl games and we can't even accomplish that simple task. Collectively, our expectations as cuse football fans are extremely low right now. I have a feeling, when all is said and done, we're really going to be happy that Gross is gone.

 

[Upstate]

Ridiculous.

Virginia was only close because SU blew a big lead by not making any adjustments at half time and then making other questionable decisions in the second half. Virginia was an example of why Shafer got fired - not a "oh if he had only won the close games." SU lost the Virginia game mostly because of lack of coaching, not talent.

And winning that game was not going to bring more fans out.

That's exactly why he got fired, you're right. But those two games going the other way, a bowl game, keeping the two best teams we'd play all season to 10pt losses at home -- both top-5 teams at the time -- and there's a huge amount of momentum with a young roster taking another year in progression. You live with the other losses and I think most people end up being really optimistic about the next few years.

 

[TheCusian]

The Villanova game was really what started me questioning Shafer. Most frustrating cuse game I've ever seen. USF was pretty bad, too (coming off of a bye). It really comes down to where we were when Shafer took over. Sure, Nassib/etc. were gone, but no way we should have fallen so fast. There are a million bowl games and we can't even accomplish that simple task. Collectively, our expectations as cuse football fans are extremely low right now. I have a feeling, when all is said and done, we're really going to be happy that Gross is gone.

2012 was the anomaly - Sr QB, SR WR, Hackett figured out something that would work.

I maintain that the last 3 years were more like 2009-2011 than 2012. Strong D, mediocre/bad offense.

That's why I think Coyle is right in diagnosing the problem as largely offensive.

 

[orangeinohio]

I really wish he had just hired an experienced OC when it was clear that Hackett was going to Buffalo.
His system (was it really a system?) for identifying talent for the coaching staff was doomed from the start.

 

[OrangePA]

USF/UVA/Pitt was his Waterloo...if he won 2 or those 3...he'd be here. It sucks that it essentially came down to two plays.

If he won one of of those...and we finished 5-7...he probably would still be the coach.

The AD is going to find out the only way to put fans in the Dome is to get 3-4 easy OOC wins, build some momentum and get to 8 wins in the regular season. Very fickle fan base that doesn't have 40 years of continuous excellence like BB. You can even see with the hoops team the attendance is down...is has been for awhile. Sure, it is better than 99% of all teams but it is down.

I think TexanMark is spot on.

Beat UVA and either Pitt or USF and we are bowling and planning for 2016 with Coach Shafer.

Take away that awful Dungey fumble call at UVA and take away the botched end of the half pooch KO against Pitt. It's amazing how a single play can change so much.

 

[OrangePA]

2012 was the anomaly - Sr QB, SR WR, Hackett figured out something that would work.

I maintain that the last 3 years were more like 2009-2011 than 2012. Strong D, mediocre/bad offense.

That's why I think Coyle is right in diagnosing the problem as largely offensive.

I think folks have gotten it wrong about the offense this year.

The offense was not the problem. The defense was the problem.

Yesterday, when we faced an inept offense - one our defense could handle - the offense was able to move the ball enough against a very good defense to win the game.

The Lester offense this year was interesting and at times pretty darn effective. We saw a lot of explosive plays on the ground and in the air. And it was all done with a true frosh QB and a walk-on sophomore QB. And it was done at times against pretty decent competition.

With time I have little doubt that Coach Lester would have developed something very special on the Hill.

So, in my view the problem was not the offense.

 

[Scooch]

I think folks have gotten it wrong about the offense this year. The offense was not the problem. The defense was the problem. Yesterday, when we faced an inept offense - one our defense could handle - the offense was able to move the ball enough against a very good defense to win the game. The Lester offense this year was interesting and at times pretty darn effective. We saw a lot of explosive plays on the ground and in the air. And it was all done with a true frosh QB and a walk-on sophomore QB. And it was done at times against pretty decent competition. With time I have little doubt that Coach Lester would have developed something very special on the Hill. So, in my view the problem was not the offense.

Both were problems. Even in the GRob days we were good to have at least one effective scoring drive each game. And Mike Williams provided some explosive plays. Given our per play stats even with a better D this year's O would have been below average.

 

[OrangePA]

Ridiculous.

Virginia was only close because SU blew a big lead by not making any adjustments at half time and then making other questionable decisions in the second half. Virginia was an example of why Shafer got fired - not a "oh if he had only won the close games." SU lost the Virginia game mostly because of lack of coaching, not talent.

And winning that game was not going to bring more fans out.

And a fumble return TD on an incomplete pass.

That was a big factor I think.

 

[Scooch]

But CMU was never to be close...remember Dungey was rolling then he was assaulted by the CMU LBer? BC was generally thought to be a win all year long.

Right, we eked out 2 wins against teams we should have beaten, and lost 2 others where we were underdogs. My only point is that people like to play the "a few plays away from 6-6 card". But if you're going to do that you have to cop to the fact that we were also a few plays away from 2-10.

 

[OrangePA]

I just can't compare the Shafer program to Greg Robinson.

It's not even close in my opinion.

 

[Scooch]

I just can't compare the Shafer program to Greg Robinson. It's not even close in my opinion.

I agree, on a program level it's not remotely close.

Just pointing out that by any statistical measure our O was below average at best this year. And the regression while Dungey was healthy, with an experienced OL and good health at the skill positions, was very troubling.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

really it comes down to how many games did we lose on the field where we shouldnt have which is probably at least 5.

how many games did we win where we had no business winning, maybe 1?

how many of the 50/50 talent games did we win other than wake in the last 2 years. BC and??

Huh? We were underdogs in every loss this season. Feel how you want but don't make up facts.

Btw, we were underdogs yesterday too.

 

[VirginiaOrange]

And a fumble return TD on an incomplete pass.

That was a big factor I think.

Big play but there was over a half to still play and SU did nothing in the second half to overcome the bad call. Good teams overcome bad calls - especially ones in the first half. In fact SU got over it by scoring 2 TDs right after it and then completely sucking on offense in the second half.