Would this have happened if Bernie were here?

[Sgt Cuse]

I was wondering if this mess with Fab would have been a non-issue if Bernie were still here. I can't remember a big in academic trouble before.

Obviously, the ultimate responsibility is on Fab. But it is in the interest of the program that this does not occur. There have been a few non-Rhodes scholars coming through that were able to maintain their academics. I have assumed several have needed help to make it through.

Does the academic monitoring go along position lines or is there a seperate person for the entire team?

If the absence of Bernie may have contributed to this fiasco I am going to hate ESPN even more (although that does bring up the whole is there something greater than infinity conundrum).

 

[jekelish]

There have been a few non-Rhodes scholars coming through that were able to maintain their academics.

Wait - since when do we recruit non-Rhodes Scholars?!

 

[cusetown1]

The Circle of Bernie.

 

[jekelish]

The Circle of Bernie.

Thank god you kept the word "jerk" out of that sentence.

 

[cusetown1]

Thank god you kept the word "jerk" out of that sentence.

I know it was hard to.

 

[All4SU]

Thank god you kept the word "jerk" out of that sentence.

I would click "Like" on that, but that would be wrong.

 

[jekelish]

I would click "Like" on that, but that would be wrong.

Oh come on, I'm only 4 likes shy of 500!

 

[CorduroyG]

Thank god you kept the word "jerk" out of that sentence.

LOLOLOLOL

 

[AccuRater]

Oh come on, I'm only 4 likes shy of 500!

Want mine? I have 4.

 

[pfister1]

Presumably its these folks and not the coaches. The coaches probably only get involved when the players aren't responding to these folks.


Student-Athlete Support Services - (315) 443-2702
Kevin Wall Director of Student-Athlete Support Services kmwall 5063
Stephanie Langstaff Assistant Director sclangst 2702
Judy Kopp Assistant Director jkopp 4115
Max Miller Senior Academic Coordinator for Football
Renee Briggs Administrative Specialist rebriggs 2702
Joe Fields Academic Coordinator jjfields 6008
Katie Scanlon Academic Coordinator sclangst
5517

 

[Orange87]

Hold up -

Nobody even knows what the exact issue is, so opining that someone who is gone could've prevented it is kinda silly.

And I'll add this: If someone had said to me that keeping Bernie Fine would've prevented the 'Fab Melo Situation' from happening, I would have chosen to get rid of Fine anyway. I know that everything is 'alleged', etc., etc. but where there is smoke, there's fire. Whatever it was Fine did or did not do, he did something that he shouldn't have, and that my friends is far, far more significant and important to the basketball program, the university and the community than whether or not Fab Melo ever plays another game for Syracuse.

 

[moqui]

where there is smoke, there's fire.

no, not always

Whatever it was Fine did or did not do, he did something that he shouldn't have

that is a long, long way from having been established, Judge Stoughton.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Presumably its these folks and not the coaches. The coaches probably only get involved when the players aren't responding to these folks.


Student-Athlete Support Services - (315) 443-2702
Kevin Wall Director of Student-Athlete Support Services kmwall 5063
Stephanie Langstaff Assistant Director sclangst 2702
Judy Kopp Assistant Director jkopp 4115
Max Miller Senior Academic Coordinator for Football
Renee Briggs Administrative Specialist rebriggs 2702
Joe Fields Academic Coordinator jjfields 6008
Katie Scanlon Academic Coordinator sclangst
5517

Looks like quite a support system. Hard to know what happened as far as being notified and what actions were taken. Such a rare event makes me wonder if something from the normal chain of events may have been missed.

Frustrating to have such a preventable distraction. Just seems like laziness on Fab's part that wasn't caught and stopped.

 

[Orange87]

no, not always



that is a long, long way from having been established, Judge Stoughton.

C'mon man. You seriously believe that Fine is the victim here? That he never did anything close to what he's been accused of? I'm not asking what can be proven, I'm asking what you believe.

 

[HakAttack]

Kevin Wall's a good dude. I know him pretty well when I did some work up there with domestic violence and athletes. I would imagine this is on Fab at this point, not anyone else.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Hold up -

Nobody even knows what the exact issue is, so opining that someone who is gone could've prevented it is kinda silly.

And I'll add this: If someone had said to me that keeping Bernie Fine would've prevented the 'Fab Melo Situation' from happening, I would have chosen to get rid of Fine anyway. I know that everything is 'alleged', etc., etc. but where there is smoke, there's fire. Whatever it was Fine did or did not do, he did something that he shouldn't have, and that my friends is far, far more significant and important to the basketball program, the university and the community than whether or not Fab Melo ever plays another game for Syracuse.

Kind of ironic that you start out by admonishing me for discussing something where we don't know exactly what happened. And then in the second paragraph you go ahead and do exactly that.

It's not inconceivable that if this situation escalated that there may have been a change in who dealt with it. It may have been brought to Bernie's attention before and now it went to Hop. And Hop may not have dealt with it before. Or Hop may not have the connections 30+ years gives you to discretely deal with it.

And if someone had asked me if keeping Bernie on administrative leave, until we unravel what really happened, would've prevented the 'Fab Melo Situation" from happening, I'd take that deal.

 

[SBU72]

I was wondering if this mess with Fab would have been a non-issue if Bernie were still here. I can't remember a big in academic trouble before.

Obviously, the ultimate responsibility is on Fab. But it is in the interest of the program that this does not occur. There have been a few non-Rhodes scholars coming through that were able to maintain their academics. I have assumed several have needed help to make it through.

Does the academic monitoring go along position lines or is there a seperate person for the entire team?

If the absence of Bernie may have contributed to this fiasco I am going to hate ESPN even more (although that does bring up the whole is there something greater than infinity conundrum).

Yesterday on a Rochester sports show, some guy called in and he had heard (3rd hand - a friends son who works with the SU b-ball team) that Bernie use to recieve weekly reports from the various profs on how the players were doing with the thought that with Bernie's firing, that this "duty" did not get passed on to somebody else. While this may be true, the "academic" problem doesn't appear to be GPA associated as that would have been known well before last Sat.

 

[Orange87]

My assuming that Bernie Fine is gulty of something along the lines of what he's been accused of is a bit less of a stretch than you assuming that the absence of someone who is no longer affiliated with university could've prevented something that we don't know happened from happening.

No, your Bernie/Hop hypothesis is not inconceivable but nobody knows what happened. I suppose in the wacky world of fan forums each idea or thought no matter how far out deserves its own place. So for admonishing you for that, I apologize.

As for administrative leave versus firing - no, no, no. That man needed to be removed officially and permanently as soon as possible. If you doubt this then think if it were your kids or if you don't have kids, kids that you know and are close to. A university so interwoven into the community can not afford not to err on the side of caution in a case like this.

 

[moqui]

C'mon man. You seriously believe that Fine is the victim here? That he never did anything close to what he's been accused of? I'm not asking what can be proven, I'm asking what you believe.

OK, first, here is what I know:

I know for a fact that Bernie Fine has been in close contact with thousands - yes, literally thousands - of boys, teens and young men. And that, of those thousands, precisely 4 have come forward with accusations (most of those other thousands will testify to the exact opposite of the charges against Bernie, by the way). Of those 4 accusers, one has offered a full recantation, one has admittedly lied and forged evidence about the case (and even got the state wrong where it supposedly occurred), and one has holes in his story wide enough to march an army through.

So, that leaves only Bobby Davis. Out of thousands. Just one. One guy who owes Bernie thousands of dollars, who had an affair with his wife, who is known to have stolen from other people around the program, and who intentionally kept key evidence hidden from previous investigations. In short, a character deficient guy with an axe to grind and a shady history. That's it. That is your "smoke."

And here is what I believe:

I believe that Bernie Fine was a closeted gay man in a hyper masculine profession with a profound need to keep his preferences secret. I believe he had an attraction to physically fit young men, probably aged late teens to late twenties. I believe that he had a sexual relationship with Bobby Davis, but it is absolutely not clear whether that relationship began before or after Bobby reached the age of consent.

I am still waiting for anything remotely convincing in the other direction.

 

[pearl31]

Wait, there's a Senior Academic Coordinator for football but not basketball?

 

[Orange87]

I believe that Bernie Fine was a closeted gay man in a hyper masculine profession with a profound need to keep his preferences secret. I believe he had an attraction to physically fit young men, probably aged late teens to late twenties. I believe that he had a sexual relationship with Bobby Davis, but it is absolutely not clear whether that relationship began before or after Bobby reached the age of consent.

Now that is the most compelling argument I've heard for Bernie's 'innocence' since this story broke.

But if it were all that simple why hasn't that been Fine's or his wife's defense all along?

 

[Sgt Cuse]

My assuming that Bernie Fine is gulty of something along the lines of what he's been accused of is a bit less of a stretch than you assuming that the absence of someone who is no longer affiliated with university could've prevented something that we don't know happened from happening.

No, your Bernie/Hop hypothesis is not inconceivable but nobody knows what happened. I suppose in the wacky world of fan forums each idea or thought no matter how far out deserves its own place. So for admonishing you for that, I apologize.

As for administrative leave versus firing - no, no, no. That man needed to be removed officially and permanently as soon as possible. If you doubt this then think if it were your kids or if you don't have kids, kids that you know and are close to. A university so interwoven into the community can not afford not to err on the side of caution in a case like this.

Well, in my mind, a non-injured starting center hasn't played two games and counting. You can agree that happened, right? And that hasn't happened in the last 30 years. Why now? So, you see how this wacky, far out, idea may come into play.

Generally, the greater the average height of a position the smaller the IQ. Yet, no SU Big has gone down without injury before. We have some changes made this year to the staff, and we have our first big non-qualifier. Is it really that foolish to look for reasons. Would be nice if this doesn't happen again. I don't think Noel is a mensa candidate.

As for the Bernie thing. Didn't JB know in '05? Didn't JB bring his kids to practice? Doesn't JB live across the street? We really need SU fans to stop the horror mongering, or how is the rest of the country going to realize this is nothing like PSU. It's pretty much boiled down to BF possibly with an inappropriate relationship with Bobby Davis, who is continuing his efforts to try and make money out of it. ESPN knew this from the get-go, yet how much of a story is that.

 

[orangecuse]

Now that is the most compelling argument I've heard for Bernie's 'innocence' since this story broke.

But if it were all that simple why hasn't that been Fine's or his wife's defense all along?

Well then, you haven't been paying any attention to Whitlock...it appears moqui completely agrees with Jason's assessments.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Now that is the most compelling argument I've heard for Bernie's 'innocence' since this story broke.

But if it were all that simple why hasn't that been Fine's or his wife's defense all along?

Because if Bernie were to admit to being gay, to avoid being fired, he would be doing SU Basketball a huge disservice. You don't have gay basketball coaches.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Oh come on, I'm only 4 likes shy of 500!

What do I get for giving you #500? It better be nice.

I still can't figure out how 300 more people like what you have to say more than what I have to say. Quantity doesn't always mean quality, though. But, for the record, I do think your jokes are better than mine.