Would this have worked? | Syracusefan.com

Would this have worked?

SWC75

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People are blaming the Big East commissioners for not doing enough to keep the conference together. I think the conference was inherently flawed from the beginning because it combined schools that played both big-time football and basketball and those that played only big-time basketball and those groups were going to have inherently different priorities.

What if, in the late 70's, the football-basketball schools in the Northeast had formed one conference and the leading basketball schools had formed another:

F-B: some combination of Boston College, Syracuse, Penn State, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Virignia Tech, Rutgers, Temple, Army, Navy.

B only: some combination of Holy Cross, Connecticut, Providence, St. John's, Fordham, Seton Hall, Georgetown, Villanova, St. Joseph's LaSalle, Duquesne, St. Bonaventure.

I think if that had been done, both organizations would still be in tact. They might have added a couple of teams to get to 12 in football, (Cincinnati and Lousiville?). There could have been a basketball rivalry between the two with a certain amount of non-conference games or even an annual "challenge" tournament. I think we might have been very satisfied with that result.
 

newmexicuse

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Seems to me that Penn State was the linchpin. Without them a long term viable northeastern football conference was a no can do. Simply not enough football factories in the geographical area.
 

OrangeXtreme

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Sounds like the plan JoePa had ... except for the part where he demanded that all schools share revenue for all sports BUT football.
 

dollarbill44

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The problem with that configuration would have been that in the late 70s, VT sports were awful across the board, and the rest of the FB schools on that list had bad to middling (mostly bad) hoops programs. For that reason, I don't think it would have worked.
 

SWC75

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The problem with that configuration would have been that in the late 70s, VT sports were awful across the board, and the rest of the FB schools on that list had bad to middling (mostly bad) hoops programs. For that reason, I don't think it would have worked.

Here are the football and basketball records of the ten schools listed above in the five years prior to the 1979-80 school year:

Boston College
football: 8-3-0, 7-4-0, 8-3-0, 6-5-0, 0-11-0 Total: 29-26-0
basketball: 21-9, 9-17, 8-18, 15-11, 21-9 Total: 74-64

Syracuse
football: 2-9-0, 6-5-0, 3-8-0, 6-5-0, 3-8-0 Total: 20-35-0
basketball: 23-9, 20-9, 26-4, 22-6, 26-4 Total: 117-32
Army
football: 3-8-0, 2-9-0, 5-6-0, 7-4-0, 4-6-1 Total: 21-33-1
basketball: 3-22, 11-14, 20-8, 19-9, 14-11 Total: 67-64
Navy
football: 4-7-0, 7-4-0, 4-7-0, 5-6-0, 9-3-0 Total: 29-27-0
basketball: 12-12, 10-14, 13-11, 14-11, 13-12 Total: 62-60
Rutgers
football: 7-3-1, 9-2-0, 11-0-0, 8-3-0, 9-3-0 44-11-1
basketball: 22-7, 31-2, 18-10, 24-7, 22-9 Total: 117-35

Temple
football: 8-2-0, 6-5-0, 4-6-0, 5-5-1, 7-3-1 Total: 30-21-2
basketball: 7-19, 9-18, 17-11, 24-5, 25-4 Total: 82-57
Penn State
football: 10-2-0, 9-3-0, 7-5-0, 11-1-0, 11-1-0 Total: 48-12-0
basketball: 11-12, 10-15, 11-15, 8-19, 12-18 Total: 52-79
Pittsburgh
football: 7-4-0, 8-4-0, 12-0-0, 9-2-1, 8-4-0 Total: 44-14-1
basketball: 18-11, 12-15, 6-21, 16-11, 18-11 Total: 70-69
West Virginia
football: 4-7-0, 9-3-0, 5-6-0, 5-6-0, 2-9-0 Total: 25-31-0
basketball: 14-13, 15-13, 18-11, 12-16, 16-12 Total: 75-65
Virginia Tech
football: 4-7-0, 8-3-0, 6-5-0, 3-7-1, 4-7-0 Total: 25-29-1
basketball: 16-10, 21-7, 19-10, 19-8, 22-9 Total: 97-44

Grand totals:
football : 315-239- 6 (.569)
basketball : 813-569 (.588)

Here are the same stats for the seven original Big East teams in basketball. I'll throw in Villanova, who joined the conference in 1980 and Pittsburgh, who joined in 1982. I'll use their stats for the five years before they joined.

Boston College 21-9, 9-17, 8-18, 15-11, 21-9 Total: 74-64
Providence 20-11, 21-11, 24-5, 24-8, 10-16 Total: 99-51
Connecticut 18-10, 19-10, 17-10, 11-15, 21-8 Total: 86-53
St. John's 21-10, 23-8, 22-9, 21-7, 21-11 Total: 108-45
Seton Hall 16-11, 18-9, 18-11, 16-11, 16-11 Total: 84-53
Syracuse 23-9, 20-9, 26-4, 22-6, 26-4 Total: 117-32
Georgetown 18-10, 21-7, 19-9, 23-8, 24-5 Total: 105-39
Villanova 16-11, 23-10, 23-9, 13-13, 23-8 Total: 98-51
Pittsburgh 16-11, 18-11, 17-12, 19-12, 20-10 Total: 90-56

Grand Total: 861-444 (.660)

Conclusion: The FB/BB conference would not have been as good a basketball conference, (at least at that point) and the BB only conference but it would have been a solid conference in both sports. And I think it would still be that today and we'd be in it and not looking to go anywhere else.
 

SouthCampusHero

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I highly doubt both of those conferences would still be intact today.

The A-10 has a list of 15 schools that are no longer affiliated with the conference.
Conference USA has a list of 9 schools.

As Jimmy B said, re-alignment has been going on since the creation of conferences.
 

dollarbill44

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It's tough to compare athletic programs from back then, but comparing records fails to account for level of competition. For example, the Rutgers FB record looks really good, until you consider that they were basically a 1AA team playing a 1AA schedule.

I agree that it would be a solid conference today, but the programs likely would not have developed the way they have. The Big East all sports conference needed the strength of the bball conference to get started. If not for hoops and ESPN, it's unlikely that the BE would have been viable for as long as it has.

Ideally, the NCAA would disband all conferences and reconfigure taking account geography, history and institutional profiles and we would have this conference alignment. But, that is clearly never going to happen.
 

SWC75

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It's tough to compare athletic programs from back then, but comparing records fails to account for level of competition. For example, the Rutgers FB record looks really good, until you consider that they were basically a 1AA team playing a 1AA schedule.

I agree that it would be a solid conference today, but the programs likely would not have developed the way they have. The Big East all sports conference needed the strength of the bball conference to get started. If not for hoops and ESPN, it's unlikely that the BE would have been viable for as long as it has.

Ideally, the NCAA would disband all conferences and reconfigure taking account geography, history and institutional profiles and we would have this conference alignment. But, that is clearly never going to happen.

It would have been itneresitng to see who ESPN would have gone with- the FB-BB conferecne or the basketball only conference.

If I had a magic wand, I'd put everybody in 9 team conferences with the most natural geogrraphic rivals in eahc sport. You wouldn't have to be in the same conferecne for every sport. SU would be in a football conference with their 8 most logicals football rivals, in a basketball conference with their 8 most logical basketball rivals and in a lacrosse conference with their 8 most logical lacrosee rivals. The top 8 football conferences in terms of the historical accomplishments, the top 16 in basketball and the top 4 in lacrosse would be Divisoon 1 and the champions would play off for the naitonal title.

But it would take a magic wand.
 

cuseincincy

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Here are the same stats for the seven original Big East teams in basketball. I'll throw in Villanova, who joined the conference in 1980 and Pittsburgh, who joined in 1982. I'll use their stats for the five years before they joined.

Boston College 21-9, 9-17, 8-18, 15-11, 21-9 Total: 74-64
Providence 20-11, 21-11, 24-5, 24-8, 10-16 Total: 99-51
Connecticut 18-10, 19-10, 17-10, 11-15, 21-8 Total: 86-53
St. John's 21-10, 23-8, 22-9, 21-7, 21-11 Total: 108-45
Seton Hall 16-11, 18-9, 18-11, 16-11, 16-11 Total: 84-53
Syracuse 23-9, 20-9, 26-4, 22-6, 26-4 Total: 117-32
Georgetown 18-10, 21-7, 19-9, 23-8, 24-5 Total: 105-39
Villanova 16-11, 23-10, 23-9, 13-13, 23-8 Total: 98-51
Pittsburgh 16-11, 18-11, 17-12, 19-12, 20-10 Total: 90-56

Grand Total: 861-444 (.660)

Conclusion: The FB/BB conference would not have been as good a basketball conference, (at least at that point) and the BB only conference but it would have been a solid conference in both sports. And I think it would still be that today and we'd be in it and not looking to go anywhere else.

Not that it changes your point but Pittsburg was not an original member. Joined in 1982. Syracuse and Boston College were the only D1 football schools in the conference.
 

SWC75

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Not that it changes your point but Pittsburg was not an original member. Joined in 1982. Syracuse and Boston College were the only D1 football schools in the conference.

As I said "I'll throw in Villanova, who joined the conference in 1980 and Pittsburgh, who joined in 1982. I'll use their stats for the five years before they joined."
 

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