Wrap Up Thoughts (Coaching)

[Finwad32]

The season's too disappointing to recap. It's all been talked about relentlessly. Some thoughts moving forward.

This entire Coaching Staff has one year to prove their worth. Some possible scenarios:
1) Team Improves record wise (2+ W's), offense remains consistent with this years' results - Significant overhaul of the offensive staff, including multiple position coaches and the OC. HCSS and Defensive staff remain largely intact and remain for a tenuous 4th season.
2) Team improves record wise (2+ W's), offense shows significant progress (24+ ppg/ 390+ypg as a minimum baseline) may be enough to buy the entire staff a 4th year, minus a possible position coach change here and there. But, it's a hard sell.
3) Team Record stays the same or gets worse - house cleaned. Doesn't matter how much the offense improves, if the record doesn't follow suit, the alarm goes off and changes are made.

I like HCSS. He needs to develop though. He's been a lifelong Coordinator that was up in the booth. He was able to fly off the handle and say what he wanted up there. As the face of the program, you cannot do that. You can be excitable, but, you've gotta be able to take a step back and compose yourself. The players feed off the head man, let your position coaches motivate.

Position coaches - Joe Adam, Fred Reed and DeAndre Smith be on notice. I doubt any of them lose their job this year. The only attrition we may see, and I think we do, is George McDonald taking a WR/Recruiting Co. job down South. Those jobs will be available for him, it's only a matter of whether or not he wants to take one. I'm not bullish on any position coaches outside of Daoust and Acosta. I did really like Lester as a QB coach, his promotion may have been premature, but, was it necessitated by McDonald's inadequacy?

Sink or Swim, and you're already in the deep end boys, no more time to learn to paddle.

 

[Orangejet]

I agree with most of what you say but think there needs to be some coaching changes NOW so we can improve current coaching & recruiting. The three coaches mentioned should be replaced immediately, especially Coach Adam. The OL was horrible this year and I don't care about the injuries because this is big-time ball and others must step up when called upon. The "next man up" on the OL was worse than the other and it affected the play of our QB's and RB's.

 

[chakka3421]

Sorry Fin - Shaffer has 2 more years (maybe 3 years if we go at least 6-6 in year 4) regardless of number of wins next year. SUAD is currently building a war chest to do:

1. Keep building war chest if Shafer & the band keep winning
2. In year 5 (after year 4 of Shafer years) hire and experienced HC or OC at a name brand university

SUAD is in no position to hire next year - Melo Center & IPF needs to be paid off along with BE exit fees.

The long term strategy with new ACC monies has been set - it will only change if we have a change at AD this year.

 

[Millhouse]

I did really like Lester as a QB coach

Not being snotty - just asking. Why?

 

[Finwad32]

Not being snotty - just asking. Why?

Honestly, I spent about 3 days with him in June. I watched him coach the position and talked about schemes and concepts with him. I also spent time with him this past Winter in the coaches offices as well as seeing him in action during Spring practices.

I know your thoughts on D3 football, but the only difference between those players and our players is 2+ inches, 20-30 plus pounds and .2-.3 seconds in the 40. D3 football is still a great brand of football, and learning there is the same as anywhere.

Yes, more top flight coaches in 1-A. But there are a great number of really good coaches at any college level. The majority of guys get jobs because of who they know, not how brilliant they are. It's just the way the coaching fraternity is.

Some really bad coaches have been given really good positions because of relationships.

*** And to give credence to your philosophy. There are, a great number of meat heads around the game. This is true. Conversely, there's alot of really intelligent guys. A really smart quarterback, typically makes a great coordinator. they understand concepts as opposed to mostly technique.

 

[Millhouse]

Honestly, I spent about 3 days with him in June. I watched him coach the position and talked about schemes and concepts with him. I also spent time with him this past Winter in the coaches offices as well as seeing him in action during Spring practices.

I know your thoughts on D3 football, but the only difference between those players and our players is 2+ inches, 20-30 plus pounds and .2-.3 seconds in the 40. D3 football is still a great brand of football, and learning there is the same as anywhere.

Yes, more top flight coaches in 1-A. But they're are a great number of really good coaches at any college level. The majority of guys get jobs because of who they know, not how brilliant they are. It's just the way the coaching fraternity is.

Some really bad coaches have been given really good positions because of relationships.

i would hope we could attract the cream of the crop of d3 coaches. i am very interested in how UB does. i just don't see much reason to give lester so much rope. he might be ok. but the evidence is pretty weak compared to other candidates out there

i know all about bad coaches getting jobs because of relationships! that's why i'm skeptical of anyone with WMU on their resume

 

[jr4750]

Honestly, I spent about 3 days with him in June. I watched him coach the position and talked about schemes and concepts with him. I also spent time with him this past Winter in the coaches offices as well as seeing him in action during Spring practices.

I know your thoughts on D3 football, but the only difference between those players and our players is 2+ inches, 20-30 plus pounds and .2-.3 seconds in the 40. D3 football is still a great brand of football, and learning there is the same as anywhere.

Yes, more top flight coaches in 1-A. But there are a great number of really good coaches at any college level. The majority of guys get jobs because of who they know, not how brilliant they are. It's just the way the coaching fraternity is.

Some really bad coaches have been given really good positions because of relationships.

*** And to give credence to your philosophy. There are, a great number of meat heads around the game. This is true. Conversely, there's alot of really intelligent guys. A really smart quarterback, typically makes a great coordinator. they understand concepts as opposed to mostly technique.

Fin, this statement is especially true at WVU with Holgs staff! Every time I see their D - Coord who must be late 40's with a backwards baseball cap on I can't help but laugh!

 

[Finwad32]

Sorry Fin - Shaffer has 2 more years (maybe 3 years if we go at least 6-6 in year 4) regardless of number of wins next year. SUAD is currently building a war chest to do:

1. Keep building war chest if Shafer & the band keep winning
2. In year 5 (after year 4 of Shafer years) hire and experienced HC or OC at a name brand university

SUAD is in no position to hire next year - Melo Center & IPF needs to be paid off along with BE exit fees.

The long term strategy with new ACC monies has been set - it will only change if we have a change at AD this year.

It doesn't bother me that they may be giving HCSS a 4th year no matter what. I'm just throwing out there what I think may happen. I think everybody knows I'm a HCSS supporter, but, just like any job people have to be held accountable. If we win two games next year, and our offense looks to still be a dumpster fire; regardless of where we stand financially, I'd have to imagine moves will be made. New AD or not.

 

[Orijinal]

Listen, if this offense improves to 24 points a game and 390 yards a game after game 12 then this whole staff should stay regardless of record. Heck, I would say 360 ypg. That would show signs of great improvement and instill some more confidence going forward. Year 4 under Shafer would probably be something to watch then.

 

[Scooch]

6 wins. Not 5. We need to get to 6 wins. Minimum.

Offense needs to be truly functional. Not just better than this year's abomination. Truly. Functional. As in top half of college football.

Those are not lofty criteria. If the guy can't be .500 and field a top 65 offense then what in the world are we doing at SU?

 

[cuseguy]

6 wins. Not 5. We need to get to 6 wins. Minimum. Offense needs to be truly functional. Not just better than this year's abomination. Truly. Functional. As in top half of college football. Those are not lofty criteria. If the guy can't be .500 and field a top 65 offense then what in the world are we doing at SU?

Agree. When I said 5-7 in my initial post, i was thinking how SU might think.

But it should be, bare minimum, 6 wins and a bowl.

Should be an interesting offseason.

 

[Crusty]

Interesting post.
We play to win the game. The only thing that matters is wins.
24 points would place us 12th in the ACC; 390 yards per game total offense would places us 10th (360 yards would place us 13th).

We need to score 30+ points to matter.

If we do not install an offense that can score 30+ points we are doomed in 2016. We will have no QB's that can play in the ACC. If we don't have a really good system that does not rely on a really good QB (dual or otherwise) we are going nowhere. For me, it is one more year. At that point we will know if Lester has got the gray matter and the minerals.

This will probably be decided on what happens to TGD. If he leaves ahead of the posse, ll bets are off.

 

[Scooch]

Interesting post.
We play to win the game. The only thing that matters is wins.
24 points would place us 12th in the ACC; 390 yards per game total offense would places us 10th (360 yards would place us 13th).

We need to score 30+ points to matter.

If we do not install an offense that can score 30+ points we are doomed in 2016. We will have no QB's that can play in the ACC. If we don't have a really good system that does not rely on a really good QB (dual or otherwise) we are going nowhere. For me, it is one more year. At that point we will know if Lester has got the gray matter and the minerals.

This will probably be decided on what happens to TGD. If he leaves ahead of the posse, ll bets are off.

Thank you for pointing this little detail out.

If those who are claiming that the biggest reason for our epic disaster of a season was injuries really mean it, then we shouldn't be talking about making marginal improvement over our horrific stats from this year.

We'll have our #1 QB, top 3 WRs, a bunch of game-breaking RBs, our top TEs, and a bunch of our highly touted OL all coming back.

And Shafer's hand-picked OC running the show.

I mean we should ROCK next year, right?

RIGHT?!?!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Interesting post.
We play to win the game. The only thing that matters is wins.
24 points would place us 12th in the ACC; 390 yards per game total offense would places us 10th (360 yards would place us 13th).

We need to score 30+ points to matter.

If we do not install an offense that can score 30+ points we are doomed in 2016. We will have no QB's that can play in the ACC. If we don't have a really good system that does not rely on a really good QB (dual or otherwise) we are going nowhere. For me, it is one more year. At that point we will know if Lester has got the gray matter and the minerals.

This will probably be decided on what happens to TGD. If he leaves ahead of the posse, ll bets are off.

I agree with all of this.

 

[Finwad32]

Averaging 30+ will almost double this years' point production. Attainable, yes, likely, no.

And, this isn't my wish list. Just some thoughts on what will lead to coaching changes or not. An increase of 7 ppg and 70 ypg, is a significant increase IMO. That's all I was trying to say.

To be where I'd like us to be offensively, we'd better be well over 400 yds offensively per game and at least 30+ points.

This thread is molding into what we'd like to see as opposed to what the intent was.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Thank you for pointing this little detail out.

If those who are claiming that the biggest reason for our epic disaster of a season was injuries really mean it, then we shouldn't be talking about making marginal improvement over our horrific stats from this year.

We'll have our #1 QB, top 3 WRs, a bunch of game-breaking RBs, our top TEs, and a bunch of our highly touted OL all coming back.

And Shafer's hand-picked OC running the show.

I mean we should ROCK next year, right?

RIGHT?!?!

We've gotten so used to bad offense we just accept it.

WHICH IS WHY WE NEED TO HIRE SOMEONE THAT VALUES THE DOME FOR WHAT IT IS AND SCHEMES AN OFFENSE ACCORDINGLY

 

[Orijinal]

Averaging 30+ will almost double this years' point production. Attainable, yes, likely, no.

And, this isn't my wish list. Just some thoughts on what will lead to coaching changes or not. An increase of 7 ppg and 70 ypg, is a significant increase IMO. That's all I was trying to say.

To be where I'd like us to be offensively, we'd better be well over 400 yds offensively per game and at least 30+ points.

This thread is molding into what we'd like to see as opposed to what the intent was.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I don't think it's reasonable to expect over 400 yards of offense and 30 points a game next year. Where is there any indication this year that that will be the case next year? No where.

But if this team averages 24 points a game and 360 yards of offense next year, that will be a definite improvement regardless of wins, even though it still puts us in the bottom of the ACC (ugh). You gotta give the staff one more year if it produces those numbers offensively over the course of 12 games.

 

[rosconey]

praise mediocrity and give it more time- the Syracuse way

if the ad had any intent on doing his job -hcss would have been told either the whole offensive staff goes or you do-

this injury excuse is a joke - saw 1 team playing with a wideout as qb because the 4 they had were all injured- and they scored more than 7 points

 

[SUinNYC]

praise mediocrity and give it more time- the Syracuse way

if the ad had any intent on doing his job -hcss would have been told either the whole offensive staff goes or you do-

this injury excuse is a joke - saw 1 team playing with a wideout as qb because the 4 they had were all injured- and they scored more than 7 points

Thank you! Finally someone talking sense on this board. Too many Shafer apologists who'd rather praise his character than question his competency.

 

[rosconey]

the apologists dont understand competency is shown in results and execution -

 

[Finwad32]

Thank you! Finally someone talking sense on this board. Too many Shafer apologists who'd rather praise his character than question his competency.

Once again, reading comprehension is lacking. Nobody in this thread is being a Shafer apologist. This is a thread dedicated to scenarios that may occur within our football program should the aforementioned happen.

Try reading top to bottom, may make more sense.

 

[rosconey]

it shouldnt be a dream to think 20 plus points a game is obtainable in this day and age-

 

[Finwad32]

it shouldnt be a dream to think 20 plus points a game is obtainable in this day and age-

Where was it said that it was?

 

[rosconey]

That's exactly what I'm saying. I don't think it's reasonable to expect over 400 yards of offense and 30 points a game next year. Where is there any indication this year that that will be the case next year? No where.

But if this team averages 24 points a game and 360 yards of offense next year, that will be a definite improvement regardless of wins, even though it still puts us in the bottom of the ACC (ugh). You gotta give the staff one more year if it produces those numbers offensively over the course of 12 games.

this kinda sounds like it-

 

[cuseincincy]

Sorry Fin - Shaffer has 2 more years (maybe 3 years if we go at least 6-6 in year 4) regardless of number of wins next year. SUAD is currently building a war chest to do:

1. Keep building war chest if Shafer & the band keep winning
2. In year 5 (after year 4 of Shafer years) hire and experienced HC or OC at a name brand university

SUAD is in no position to hire next year - Melo Center & IPF needs to be paid off along with BE exit fees.

The long term strategy with new ACC monies has been set - it will only change if we have a change at AD this year.

Well #1 on your list is out the window already in year 2. You really saying that 7-6 and 3-9 earn 2 more years? I could care less about experienced head coach. I just want a good coach.