Yeah Im a glutton for oline play review

[Chip]

The ability to make quick reads is not something that gets better with experience. You either have that intangible or you don’t.

Disagree. The game slows down for QBs with additional experience. We've had several guys where their senior year passing was significantly improved over their previous years (McNabb, Nunes, RJ, Nassib).

But yes, there could come a time where Dino has to decide whether the progress is happening quick enough. That was the 7th game into the 3rd season here. And given it was a home game, there should be additional comfort for the QB.

 

[FrancoPizza]

those moments were there last year you just choose to ignore them

His role as a relief pitcher was vastly different. Teams didn't scout for him. He came in and followed a basic script. He didn't have to extend plays. At Syracuse that's a requisite for QB1 (or any good QB for that matter).

 

[TheCusian]

I'm basing it on having watched SU quarterbacks for the last 30 years. All of our "program changer" quarterbacks had those moments even in year 1 where you just knew they were going to be special. And I really hate to rag on Tommy because I had high hopes for him, drank the kool aid, etc. The knock used to be that our QBs can't check down when their primary receiver is covered, but Tommy is developing a horrible reputation for looking down OPEN receivers and freezing. This is just an untenable situation and I hope Dino has a plan beyond praying that Tommy snaps out of it.

 

[TheCusian]

His role as a relief pitcher was vastly different. Teams didn't scout for him. He came in and followed a basic script. He didn't have to extend plays. At Syracuse that's a requisite for QB1 (or any good QB for that matter).

 

[TheCusian]

Look, he's got some growing to do for sure. But he has a chance to be very very good here. When the protection is blowing up in different places, play to play and you get crushed - it can have snowball down the mountain effect.

For me - that first Q vs Pitt was illuminating. He made the right reads, moved the football or had WR's drop stuff. After that, Pitt did what they do (best sacking team in the country) and he got shell shocked, then injured.

I've been beating this drum all week - but there isn't another team on our schedule who can pressure like Clemson, Pitt or even Maryland. FSU is not great a bringing pressure. I think Dino saved TD late in the Pitt game because he knew we'd have more of a shot the rest of the way. Watch TD's numbers rise over the last half of the season (unless the injury gets him).

 

[FrancoPizza]

Thanks for sharing that. I needed to be reminded. It's just scary how bad the last several games have been. I really worry that he's too shell shocked to recover. Wouldn't be the first time it happened.

 

[TheCusian]

Thanks for sharing that. I needed to be reminded. It's just scary how bad the last several games have been. I really worry that he's too shell shocked to recover. Wouldn't be the first time it happened.

Oh that we can agree... I do think he's been missing open guys because the timer in his head has been sped up to an insane degree.

 

[PhatOrange]

Oh that we can agree... I do think he's been missing open guys because the timer in his head has been sped up to an insane degree.

I agree but it doesn't explain all the times he's not throwing the football.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I agree but it doesn't explain all the times he's not throwing the football.

PTSD would explain most of it. Haven't you seen those movies where the soldier just freezes in the bunker when it's time to fight?

 

[721Comstock]

I agree but it doesn't explain all the times he's not throwing the football.

Agreed. IF his first read is open - THROW THE DAMN BALL.

And it often is - but he looks for something better/more, and then Bad Things usually happen.

Get a bunch of dink and dunk passing going, and then catch them flatfooted when you air it out.

 

[TheCusian]

I agree but it doesn't explain all the times he's not throwing the football.

Why not? Being hit too much or not knowing if you’re protected for more than your first read can lead to indecision or can lead to panicky bad throws.

If everything is sped up, stands to reason you might miss open guys because you’re not able to process the info quickly enough.

 

[TheCusian]

Agreed. IF his first read is open - THROW THE DAMN BALL.

And it often is - but he looks for something better/more, and then Bad Things usually happen.

Get a bunch of dink and dunk passing going, and then catch them flatfooted when you air it out.

he did that and threw a bunch of INTs, he’s also thrown them out of bounds - but gets killed for that too

 

[upperdeck]

he has made a bunch of great throws too. When you think your offense cant over come mistakes you tend to try to not make any.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Why not? Being hit too much or not knowing if you’re protected for more than your first read can lead to indecision or can lead to panicky bad throws.

If everything is sped up, stands to reason you might miss open guys because you’re not able to process the info quickly enough.

Let's install one of those quantum CPUs in his head and we'll be good to go then.

 

[OttoMets]

He appears to be looking at Jackson the entire time and doesn’t throw it. Ref in the way? Doesn’t look at Hackett at all.

Watch the series he gets hurt. He’s looking directly at and doesn’t throw a quick out to an open Hackett which would've been a 4/5 yard gain. It’s the first read to. Hackett is visibly frustrated he didn't throw it.
He then steps up and takes a sack or gets back to the line. Why doesn't he throw this ball?

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Is he too short to see? That sounds like a stupid question, but I haven't got a more reasonable suggestion.

His regression is bizarre. Last year he was throwing guys open and this year he's slow to throw to guys who are already open.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Is he too short to see? That sounds like a stupid question, but I haven't got a more reasonable suggestion.

His regression is bizarre. Last year he was throwing guys open and this year he's slow to throw to guys who are already open.

Give the man some lifts then for chris sakes. Is there an NCAA restriction on heel thickness?

 

[orangepassion]

he did that and threw a bunch of INTs, he’s also thrown them out of bounds - but gets killed for that too

I think he might also be spooked by a couple of his INT's.
The criticism for throwing out of bounds is generally him doing it too quickly and/or not giving his guy a chance to make a play. i was at the NC State game and when a defender got near him and a receiver was open (not wide open, but open), he threw it several rows into the stands. He needs to be able to complete passes to guys who aren't wide open and I wonder if he's scared to throw an INT.

 

[FrancoPizza]

He needs to be able to complete passes to guys who aren't wide open and I wonder if he's scared to throw an INT.

Can someone tell him that Jim Boeheim is not the head coach and he doesn't have to look over his shoulder if he makes a mistake?

 

[billsin01]

I'm basing it on having watched SU quarterbacks for the last 30 years. All of our "program changer" quarterbacks had those moments even in year 1 where you just knew they were going to be special. And I really hate to rag on Tommy because I had high hopes for him, drank the kool aid, etc. The knock used to be that our QBs can't check down when their primary receiver is covered, but Tommy is developing a horrible reputation for looking down OPEN receivers and freezing. This is just an untenable situation and I hope Dino has a plan beyond praying that Tommy snaps out of it.

those moments were there last year you just choose to ignore them

I'm actually with Franco on this one. I feel like you usually can tell pretty early what kind of QB you have, at least if you've watched football for a long time. It's not unusual for a younger QB to be more comfortable throwing outside the hashmarks and struggling to attack the middle of the field. But Tommy's struggles with the read option, the game/time situations, making the reads and delivering the ball accurately, moving in the pocket effectively ... I don't know. That's a lot to work on. Not at all writing the kid off but outside of the occasional beautiful-looking throw into tight windows, there's not a whole lot to grab onto. The FSU game was nice but they were a complete dumpster fire. UNC wasn't much better and were basically dead man walking walking when we played them. WMU was a nice game but there's just not a lot to hold onto, IMO.

 

[Franz69]

play 2 , 1st and goal from the 8. we go 2 TE. Pitt is man D.

so complain about play calling, pass blocking, etc

1st play of the game should have been a TD, this should have been one too. either you throw the quick out to the TE who has a chasing LB and Safety. or throw the slant to the open WR with no middle Safety.. Instead it becomes a sack. its a good call against the D and well blocked..


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Tommy's progression in this sequence looks very odd to me. In the second pic, he's looking left, where all the receivers are. In the third pic, it appears that he's looking right, where there's absolutely nobody to throw to.

 

[billsin01]

Disagree. The game slows down for QBs with additional experience. We've had several guys where their senior year passing was significantly improved over their previous years (McNabb, Nunes, RJ, Nassib).

But yes, there could come a time where Dino has to decide whether the progress is happening quick enough. That was the 7th game into the 3rd season here. And given it was a home game, there should be additional comfort for the QB.

I don't know -- McNabb always looked phenomenal to me but tightened things up as he went. I always liked Nassib and agree he improved significantly but the change in offensive philosophy was a big part of the crazy stats his senior season. To me RJ was the same guy for four years we just didn't need much with Freeney terrorizing entire offensive lines in '01. Nunes was never special and was better later than earlier but whatever he was or wasn't, I don't know that he transformed from brutal to special at any point.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I'm actually with Franco on this one. I feel like you usually can tell pretty early what kind of QB you have, at least if you've watched football for a long time. It's not unusual for a younger QB to be more comfortable throwing outside the hashmarks and struggling to attack the middle of the field. But Tommy's struggles with the read option, the game/time situations, making the reads and delivering the ball accurately, moving in the pocket effectively ... I don't know. That's a lot to work on. Not at all writing the kid off but outside of the occasional beautiful-looking throw into tight windows, there's not a whole lot to grab onto. The FSU game was nice but they were a complete dumpster fire. UNC wasn't much better and were basically dead man walking walking when we played them. WMU was a nice game but there's just not a lot to hold onto, IMO.

I'm rewatching the highlight tape again - and what's striking is all of those plays he wasn't asked to do much. Drop back and fire. He looks great when the play goes according to script, if the pocket is nice and clean, etc. That works with an SEC offensive line and playmakers but not here.

 

[Franz69]

Most of Tommy's big play highlights last year, the ball was out quick, even on long pass plays. Three step drop, ball out. No messing around.

 

[Chip]

I don't know -- McNabb always looked phenomenal to me but tightened things up as he went. I always liked Nassib and agree he improved significantly but the change in offensive philosophy was a big part of the crazy stats his senior season. To me RJ was the same guy for four years we just didn't need much with Freeney terrorizing entire offensive lines in '01. Nunes was never special and was better later than earlier but whatever he was or wasn't, I don't know that he transformed from brutal to special at any point.

I think they all just had better senior years when it came to passing the ball. Not necessarily special. Granted, RJ had Morant catching and Reyes running. Nassib had Sales and Lemon, a good running game and the up tempo suited him. Nunes just didn’t screw up as much, but that team had the worst passing D in the country.

As for McNabb, he just seemed like a more efficient passer that year. Maybe I’m too focused on the first two games of the year and not the last one when Bob Stoops Florida D was too much to handle. Or the NC State game where we decided we weren’t going to run the ball.

 

[dollarbill44]

I agree but it doesn't explain all the times he's not throwing the football.

Maybe he's "seeing ghosts"? I hear it's a real thing.