Yesterday was a classic example of SU needing

[retro44]

a real big man coach.We got out rebounded by 20 and UNC had as many offensive rebounds as we did defensive rebounds. UNC players schooled us in how to get into proper positions to control the boards big time.

UNC is not that much bigger at all except for the overall team strength.

Men's Basketball - Roster - University of North Carolina Tar Heels Official Athletic Site Their tallest player did not played yesterday.Plus it seems half their team is from NC .

Who is our last big man to make a real dent in the NBA ? I am not talking about limited bench role players either.

 

[AZOrange]

7 better players...

 

[CuseFaninVT]

a real big man coach.We got out rebounded by 20 and UNC had as many offensive rebounds as we did defensive rebounds. UNC players schooled us in how to get into proper positions to control the boards big time.

UNC is not that much bigger at all except for the overall team strength.

Men's Basketball - Roster - University of North Carolina Tar Heels Official Athletic Site Their tallest player did not played yesterday.Plus it seems half their team is from NC .

Who is our last big man to make a real dent in the NBA ? I am not talking about limited bench role players either.

I personally don't believe Chukwu is going to contribute regardless of who coaches him. And DCII is just done. His knees are shot. It's too bad, but it is what it is.

 

[retro44]

Kinduct and Fusionetics is what Cabiles the S&C coach is into. That is just a high tech programs to monitor performance and not a real strength building program.

But if Chukwu was the best we can get at that time tells me recruits are doing their homework. We lost a kid to academics where the staff was not up to proper vetting of his HS transcripts which tells me they were more than desperate to get a body and hope he sneaks through.

I personally don't believe Chukwu is going to contribute regardless of who coaches him. And DCII is just done. His knees are shot. It's too bad, but it is what it is.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Kinduct and Fusionetics is what Cabiles the S&C coach is into. That is just a high tech programs to monitor performance and not a real strength building program.

But if Chukwu was the best we can get at that time tells me recruits are doing their homework. We lost a kid to academics where the staff was not up to proper vetting of his HS transcripts which tells me they were more than desperate to get a body and hope he sneaks through.

Syracuse, they call me every day. I like their offense a lot. Their defense, I don’t really like playing a zone. - Nick Richards

 

[OttoMets]

I think the fundamental instruction is better at North Carolina. When their big guys are this good so many years in a row, it's more than just "they pick from a better pool of recruits."

 

[OttoMets]

To follow up on this, I'm trying to quickly scroll through some recruiting rankings and see if Carolina's big guys (who everyone agrees are excellent college players) are really such top-end recruits. http://247sports.com/Season/2012-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool

2014: Jackson #9, Pinson #15 (McCullough was #21)
2013: Hicks #16
2012: Brice Johnson #45 (DaJuan was #22 this year)
2011: McAdoo # 6 (Rakeem was #22)

Looks like Kennedy Meeks wasn't in the top 50 in 2013; I recall that John Henson and Ed Davis were both fairly highly rated a few years before that.

So UNC is probably out-recruiting us, but it still seems that their bigs develop better than ours do. Of the kids I listed, we had one strong year from one player; their guys not only stay in school, but they are heavy contributors throughout their careers.

 

[AZOrange]

I think the fundamental instruction is better at North Carolina. When their big guys are this good so many years in a row, it's more than just "they pick from a better pool of recruits."

Really? I kinda thought their offense was hot garbage

 

[OttoMets]

Really? I kinda thought their offense was hot garbage

Oh, yeah, I just meant individual skills. The strides a guy like Meeks has made amaze me.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Meeks, Hicks, and Maye aren't really particularly skilled to me. They are huge and stronger than our guys. We recruit longer/leaner guys and they recruit big beefy strong guys good at chasing offensive rebounds. Williams has always had the same system. Run your bigs down the middle of the court on the break and chase boards off outside shots. It's really not that complicated. Meeks, Hicks, and Maye aren't pro's and aren't very skilled outside of rebounding and making layups. They do keep a lot of guys 4 years, something we aren't able to do for whatever reason. If we had McCullough alongside Lydon/Roberson and Malachi and Ennis in the backcourt we probably win. I think it's just interesting to me that UNC never has guys leave early. Must be nice.

 

[OrangeTown]

To follow up on this, I'm trying to quickly scroll through some recruiting rankings and see if Carolina's big guys (who everyone agrees are excellent college players) are really such top-end recruits. http://No links to . . . allowed on this site.com/Season/2012-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool

2014: Jackson #9, Pinson #15 (McCullough was #21)
2013: Hicks #16
2012: Brice Johnson #45 (DaJuan was #22 this year)
2011: McAdoo # 6 (Rakeem was #22)

Looks like Kennedy Meeks wasn't in the top 50 in 2013; I recall that John Henson and Ed Davis were both fairly highly rated a few years before that.

So UNC is probably out-recruiting us, but it still seems that their bigs develop better than ours do. Of the kids I listed, we had one strong year from one player; their guys not only stay in school, but they are heavy contributors throughout their careers.

For what it's worth, I don't think your info backs up your assumption of difference in development.

I don't think we've had many players EVER improve as much as Rak from freshman to senior year. Of the other 2, one is a one and done, and another derailed by chronic injury. So using those 3 as examples of not developing our bigs doesn't quite seem to work.

I'm not saying your point doesn't perhaps have merit - just perhaps not with that sample.

 

[Alsacs]

Really? I kinda thought their offense was hot garbage

UNC's offense depends on having a speedy PG.
Roy likes to run and the half court he likes to have 2 shooters and have his bigs crash the boards.

It isn't a highly difficult offense to run and like most depends on the personnel but he has been recruiting to it since 2010.

 

[OttoMets]

Meeks, Hicks, and Maye aren't really particularly skilled to me. They are huge and stronger than our guys. We recruit longer/leaner guys and they recruit big beefy strong guys good at chasing offensive rebounds. Williams has always had the same system. Run your bigs down the middle of the court on the break and chase boards off outside shots. It's really not that complicated. Meeks, Hicks, and Maye aren't pro's and aren't very skilled outside of rebounding and making layups. They do keep a lot of guys 4 years, something we aren't able to do for whatever reason. If we had McCullough alongside Lydon/Roberson and Malachi and Ennis in the backcourt we probably win. I think it's just interesting to me that UNC never has guys leave early. Must be nice.

Agree with the last bit - how do they keep these guys?

I think they're much more skilled than you give them credit for, though. They've got consistent post moves, they can finish with both hands in a number of different ways (layups, hooks, they can adjust to the defender and use glass), and they can all make the foul line jumper comfortably. I'm so impressed with Taurean Thompson, but they've had half a dozen players this decade with his skill. And for some reason they rebound and defend and stay in college for three or four years to boot.

For what it's worth, I don't think your info backs up your assumption of difference in development.

I don't think we've had many players EVER improve as much as Rak from freshman to senior year. Of the other 2, one is a one and done, and another derailed by chronic injury. So using those 3 as examples of not developing our bigs doesn't quite seem to work.

I'm not saying your point doesn't perhaps have merit - just perhaps not with that sample.

Yeah, it's not really apples and apples. I went in remembering that Meeks and Johnson weren't high-end guys and assumed that Pinson and the rest were similar 3- or 4-star players. Between the difference in recruiting rankings and our sample size, I can't draw too much from that.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Meeks, Hicks, and Maye aren't really particularly skilled to me. They are huge and stronger than our guys. We recruit longer/leaner guys and they recruit big beefy strong guys good at chasing offensive rebounds. Williams has always had the same system. Run your bigs down the middle of the court on the break and chase boards off outside shots. It's really not that complicated. Meeks, Hicks, and Maye aren't pro's and aren't very skilled outside of rebounding and making layups. They do keep a lot of guys 4 years, something we aren't able to do for whatever reason. If we had McCullough alongside Lydon/Roberson and Malachi and Ennis in the backcourt we probably win. I think it's just interesting to me that UNC never has guys leave early. Must be nice.

I disagree. They aren't superstars but they are quite good, IMO. They have really good footwork and nice touch around the basket. Those two factors are not debateable. They will catch the ball high and continue to make the play from there and not bring it down to the floor like Coleman still does. They can make short jumpers especially Hicks. Good screeners. None of them are WOW athletes but they are certainly good players.

 

[81South]

I think some schools prioritize rebounding more so they recruit to that skill set more than we do...we seem to care more about length to play the zone than most anything else.

I also believe you are best at what you focus on the most in practice.

Carolina always seems to be a very good rebounding team.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I disagree. They aren't superstars but they are quite good, IMO. They have really good footwork and nice touch around the basket. Those two factors are not debateable. They will catch the ball high and continue to make the play from there and not bring it down to the floor like Coleman still does. They can make short jumpers especially Hicks. Good screeners. None of them are WOW athletes but they are certainly good players.

Good college players, with good fundamentals. I'll agree there. Nothing they do is particularly sexy. It's not like they post them up like they did before with Hansbrough or we do with Lydon and used to do with Rak or Arinze.

 

[SU94]

a real big man coach.We got out rebounded by 20 and UNC had as many offensive rebounds as we did defensive rebounds. UNC players schooled us in how to get into proper positions to control the boards big time.

UNC is not that much bigger at all except for the overall team strength.

Men's Basketball - Roster - University of North Carolina Tar Heels Official Athletic Site Their tallest player did not played yesterday.Plus it seems half their team is from NC .

Who is our last big man to make a real dent in the NBA ? I am not talking about limited bench role players either.

Curious what your definition of a big man coach is? Who coaches big men at Duke? Or, how about at Kansas. Both staffs filled with a bunch of guards. Both teams sport plenty of talent, but both have developed these players. A coach's height has little-to-nothing to do with his ability to teach.

I wish this board would get off the collective "let's rip the assistant coaches" narrative. We are in a bit of a talent gap right now

 

[retro44]

For what it's worth, I don't think your info backs up your assumption of difference in development.

I don't think we've had many players EVER improve as much as Rak from freshman to senior year. Of the other 2, one is a one and done, and another derailed by chronic injury. So using those 3 as examples of not developing our bigs doesn't quite seem to work.

I'm not saying your point doesn't perhaps have merit - just perhaps not with that sample.

Christmas went out on his own in the summer between his Jr. and Sr. season to work out with someone who I can't remember now,but that is what I think got him the chance to improve a ton for his final year here.
I think Christmas was rated between 1 to 4 as the top center coming out of high school. Flab Melo was also very highly rated and flopped

 

[retro44]

Curious what your definition of a big man coach is? Who coaches big men at Duke? Or, how about at Kansas. Both staffs filled with a bunch of guards. Both teams sport plenty of talent, but both have developed these players. A coach's height has little-to-nothing to do with his ability to teach.

I wish this board would get off the collective "let's rip the assistant coaches" narrative. We are in a bit of a talent gap right now

Bernie Fine and he was a couch potato...are you happy now because since he left what has Hopkins produced?

 

[SoBeCuse]

Good college players, with good fundamentals. I'll agree there. Nothing they do is particularly s e xy. It's not like they post them up like they did before with Hansbrough or we do with Lydon and used to do with Rak or Arinze.

We agree on something. Progress!

 

[Scotch]

I think some schools prioritize rebounding more so they recruit to that skill set more than we do...we seem to care more about length to play the zone than most anything else.

I also believe you are best at what you focus on the most in practice.

Carolina always seems to be a very good rebounding team.

And they always seem to have 5 5-star 6'10" dudes. Funny how that goes hand in hand.

 

[thebigeast44]

To follow up on this, I'm trying to quickly scroll through some recruiting rankings and see if Carolina's big guys (who everyone agrees are excellent college players) are really such top-end recruits. http://No links to . . . allowed o...teRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool

2014: Jackson #9, Pinson #15 (McCullough was #21)
2013: Hicks #16
2012: Brice Johnson #45 (DaJuan was #22 this year)
2011: McAdoo # 6 (Rakeem was #22)

Looks like Kennedy Meeks wasn't in the top 50 in 2013; I recall that John Henson and Ed Davis were both fairly highly rated a few years before that.

So UNC is probably out-recruiting us, but it still seems that their bigs develop better than ours do. Of the kids I listed, we had one strong year from one player; their guys not only stay in school, but they are heavy contributors throughout their careers.

UNC Basketball McDonald's All-Americans - Tar Heel Times

We have one McDonald's AA - DC2

 

[Longtimesu]

For what it's worth, I don't think your info backs up your assumption of difference in development.

I don't think we've had many players EVER improve as much as Rak from freshman to senior year. Of the other 2, one is a one and done, and another derailed by chronic injury. So using those 3 as examples of not developing our bigs doesn't quite seem to work.

I'm not saying your point doesn't perhaps have merit - just perhaps not with that sample.

Under Bernie Fine who was rated one of the best big men coaches for years, each one of these players got better from freshman to senior year.

Mike Lee
Roosevelt Bouie
Louie Orr
Rudy Hackett
Tony “Red” Bruin
Danny Schayes
Chris Sease
Andre Hawkins
Rony Seikaly
Stephen Thompson
Wendell Alexis
Ryan Blackwell
LeRon Ellis
Herman Harried
Otis Hill
Kueth Duany
Craig Forth
Demetris Nichols
Onauaku
Josh Pace
Leo Rautins

 

[Coach Orange]

I think the fundamental instruction is better at North Carolina. When their big guys are this good so many years in a row, it's more than just "they pick from a better pool of recruits."

Sadly, our system is spotty at best in terms of fundamental skill development. The players change, but the same fundamental lapses remain season to season.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Under Bernie Fine who was rated one of the best big men coaches for years, each one of these players got better from freshman to senior year.

Mike Lee
Roosevelt Bouie
Louie Orr
Rudy Hackett
Tony “Red” Bruin
Danny Schayes
Chris Sease
Andre Hawkins
Rony Seikaly
Stephen Thompson
Wendell Alexis
Ryan Blackwell
LeRon Ellis
Herman Harried
Otis Hill
Kueth Duany
Craig Forth
Demetris Nichols
Onauaku
Josh Pace
Leo Rautins

Woulllllllld we really call Josh Pace a big man? Really?

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