"You are What Your Record Says You Are" B. Parcells

[Alsacs]

Your time is coming. It’ll be smoking jay cutler who rings the bell though, not blake.

Dude. Cmon man I like you so I won’t say anything but if your 25 right now the last time the Dolphins won a playoff game you were 8 years old.

Talk some trash when you win a playoff game.

 

[Trueblue25]

Dude. Cmon man I like you so I won’t say anything but if your 25 right now the last time the Dolphins won a playoff game you were 8 years old.

Talk some trash when you win a playoff game.

That may be never though

 

[PhatOrange]

He fires people at every stop. I don't think he will stay in Minnesota.

not a new phenomenon with new AD's are any new senior level VP/Director/CEO for that matter.

 

[CousCuse]

not a new phenomenon with new AD's are any new senior level VP/Director/CEO for that matter.

He comes, fires, hires then leaves. I like coach Babers, but if he gets success here there will be huge financial ramifications for both FB and BB that Coyle won't have to deal with.

 

[orangecuse]

Shafer guys are juniors and seniors that's why they're playing. Babers' has taught them how to play football again - be competitive (note Bees' past scores post). True freshman playing would be a disaster. Babers played most of his true frosh last year and is trying his hardest not to play any in key roles this year.

you should take a peak at the last depth chart though.

12 of 23 guys on offense are Babers' kids

14 of 21 guys on defense are Babers' kids

Neal and Bradshaw technically Shafer finds but signed by Babers. I’m counting them as Baber guys because their offers were not pulled.

Those juniors and seniors you mention also happen to be the best players that currently give Baber's and SU the best chance to win. Otherwise, if not, the underclassmen would be playing ahead of them, it's not just because they're upperclassmen. (See Coleman, Robinson, Black, etc. on D). Bottom line is you play the best guys that give you the best chance to win now...and many are Shafer's, especially at key positions; Dungey, Erv, Ish, Strickland, Franklin, Bennett, Samuels, etc.

That's great that the depth chart is filled with Baber's kids, hopefully that means good things for the future. However, if those kids were better than the aforementioned Shafer's, they'd be starting. That was the main point of my original post.

No doubt I think Baber's is a much better coach than Shafer and is getting the most out of his and Shafer's guys.

 

[PhatOrange]

Those juniors and seniors you mention also happen to be the best players that currently give Baber's and SU the best chance to win. Otherwise, if not, the underclassmen would be playing ahead of them, it's not just because they're upperclassmen. (See Coleman, Robinson, Black, etc. on D). Bottom line is you play the best guys that give you the best chance to win now...and many are Shafer's, especially at key positions; Dungey, Erv, Ish, Strickland, Franklin, Bennett, Samuels, etc.

That's great that the depth chart is filled with Baber's kids, hopefully that means good things for the future. However, if those kids were better than the aforementioned Shafer's, they'd be starting. That was the main point of my original post.

No doubt I think Baber's is a much better coach than Shafer and is getting the most out of his and Shafer's guys.

Well yeah some of this goes without saying. Babers has had 2 recruiting classes. It's also normal for an 18 year old kid to not be as good as a 22 year old kid. We don't recruit 5 star kids who would easily punt those kids you mentioned to the bench. All of Shafer DB's are on the bench (save Cordy). His defensive lineman transferred except for Slayton and Pickard was replaced. Samuels took it upon himself to not be on the bench.

AT was a Babers kid who replaced Ish. Ish and Philips are now the placeholders for the kids behind them. Neither stretches a defense on the outside. Strickland? you shouldn't have even included him. He's not very good.

On the offensive line, Shafers guys were largely replaced. Conway was redshirting under Shafer. His development is all on Babers' staff. McGloster's transformation should be credited to Edinger. Dungey? Our best player bar none but the kid can thanks Babers for his numbers. Otherwise he'd be running option and throwing 15 passes.

 

[Millhouse]

There are times where I wonder if some of you think college football and the NFL are the same thing.

This is one of those times.

most SU fans watch a lot of NFL games and one college game a week

we should just go to the mac. then our record would be better and that's all that matters.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

most SU fans watch a lot of NFL games and one college game a week

we should just go to the mac. then our record would be better and that's all that matters.

You know very well that the record is all that matters. There is too much money at stake for schools whose Fball programs fund the athletic department, and sometimes even academic initiatives, for it to be otherwise. If the record didn't matter, then nobody would give a rat's behind about attendance, revenues generated from ticket sales, concession sales, TV appearances and bowl games. If the record didn't matter, then coaches would never get fired except for moral turpitude. That may be so in the Ivy League, but certainly not in the ACC.

That being said, I would be blind not to recognize that rebuilding a program takes time. All I am saying is that we should see a tick upward in year two: 6 wins 6 losses, a .500 record. The team had a golden opportunity against Middle Tennessee and didn't get it done. Now, three games left to achieve that tick upward.

 

[HOFCeluck]

You know very well that the record is all that matters. There is too much money at stake for schools whose Fball programs fund the athletic department, and sometimes even academic initiatives, for it to be otherwise. If the record didn't matter, then nobody would give a rat's behind about attendance, revenues generated from ticket sales, concession sales, TV appearances and bowl games. If the record didn't matter, then coaches would never get fired except for moral turpitude. That may be so in the Ivy League, but certainly not in the ACC.

That being said, I would be blind not to recognize that rebuilding a program takes time. All I am saying is that we should see a tick upward in year two: 6 wins 6 losses, a .500 record. The team had a golden opportunity against Middle Tennessee and didn't get it done. Now, three games left to achieve that tick upward.

It's not all that matters after 1.75 years and that's a crazy hot take that completely ignored context or reality in general.

 

[bcubs9497]

You know very well that the record is all that matters. There is too much money at stake for schools whose Fball programs fund the athletic department, and sometimes even academic initiatives, for it to be otherwise. If the record didn't matter, then nobody would give a rat's behind about attendance, revenues generated from ticket sales, concession sales, TV appearances and bowl games. If the record didn't matter, then coaches would never get fired except for moral turpitude. That may be so in the Ivy League, but certainly not in the ACC.

That being said, I would be blind not to recognize that rebuilding a program takes time. All I am saying is that we should see a tick upward in year two: 6 wins 6 losses, a .500 record. The team had a golden opportunity against Middle Tennessee and didn't get it done. Now, three games left to achieve that tick upward.

Ugh.

 

[CousCuse]

It's not all that matters after 1.75 years and that's a crazy hot take that completely ignored context or reality in general.

This pattern was established with the previous coach, so don't abject now that Dino is being subjected to the same short sighted analysis.

 

[orangecuse]

Well yeah some of this goes without saying. Babers has had 2 recruiting classes. It's also normal for an 18 year old kid to not be as good as a 22 year old kid. We don't recruit 5 star kids who would easily punt those kids you mentioned to the bench. All of Shafer DB's are on the bench (save Cordy). His defensive lineman transferred except for Slayton and Pickard was replaced. Samuels took it upon himself to not be on the bench.

AT was a Babers kid who replaced Ish. Ish and Philips are now the placeholders for the kids behind them. Neither stretches a defense on the outside. Strickland? you shouldn't have even included him. He's not very good.

On the offensive line, Shafers guys were largely replaced. Conway was redshirting under Shafer. His development is all on Babers' staff. McGloster's transformation should be credited to Edinger. Dungey? Our best player bar none but the kid can thanks Babers for his numbers. Otherwise he'd be running option and throwing 15 passes.

I've been around since the 70's...I'm aware we don't get 5* guys, not many 4* either for that matter. Regardless of age, rationale, etc., the best players start and find themselves on the field...period! Bottom line is a lot of the key position guys are Shafer's. If Strickland is so bad, as you allude, and Dino having gone through 2 recruiting classes, what does that say about those two classes at that position? I don't think Strickland is bad, I see him running, fighting hard for extra yards, solid at catching the ball out of the backfield, etc. I do think it's our offensive line you mention that's so poor, especially with run blocking.

Again, I think Baber's is a much better coach than Shafer and is getting the most out of the young men. Coaching to me is more of the reason why SU has been much more competitive in games (vs. poor Shafer recruiting/talent) even with the disappointing defeats.

FSU is loaded with all these 4* & 5* guys, but it's up to the head coach & his coaches to get their kids to play at the highest level that their capabilities allow. The BC debacle/embarrassment for FSU was 100% on the coaches as clearly FSU players and their demeanor suggested they weren't interested in competing/mentally focused. Baber's (other than that MTSU snafu) again, seemingly, gets the kids to play to their fullest capabilities...which is all you can ask.

 

[RMH44]

Well yeah some of this goes without saying. Babers has had 2 recruiting classes. It's also normal for an 18 year old kid to not be as good as a 22 year old kid. We don't recruit 5 star kids who would easily punt those kids you mentioned to the bench. All of Shafer DB's are on the bench (save Cordy). His defensive lineman transferred except for Slayton and Pickard was replaced. Samuels took it upon himself to not be on the bench.

AT was a Babers kid who replaced Ish. Ish and Philips are now the placeholders for the kids behind them. Neither stretches a defense on the outside. Strickland? you shouldn't have even included him. He's not very good.

On the offensive line, Shafers guys were largely replaced. Conway was redshirting under Shafer. His development is all on Babers' staff. McGloster's transformation should be credited to Edinger. Dungey? Our best player bar none but the kid can thanks Babers for his numbers. Otherwise he'd be running option and throwing 15 passes.

I agree with the premise of your post but...Chris Fredrick is a Shafer recruit ;-)

 

[SoBristol]

I agree with the premise of your post but...Chris Fredrick is a Shafer recruit ;-)

also Bradshaw committed under Shafer.

Credit Babers for pulling from grad transfer and juco ranks to buttress the defense, with a few of his regular recruits also playing early (Coleman, Foster, Black, Williams, Ruff).

On offense, Dino’s skill position recruits have yet to emerge in a big way (other than AET last season and to a lesser degree Pierce this season). Too bad - we could have used another playmaker. But, again, the staff did a lot to bolster the defense to make this team competitive.

 

[TheCusian]

You know very well that the record is all that matters. There is too much money at stake for schools whose Fball programs fund the athletic department, and sometimes even academic initiatives, for it to be otherwise. If the record didn't matter, then nobody would give a rat's behind about attendance, revenues generated from ticket sales, concession sales, TV appearances and bowl games. If the record didn't matter, then coaches would never get fired except for moral turpitude. That may be so in the Ivy League, but certainly not in the ACC.

That being said, I would be blind not to recognize that rebuilding a program takes time. All I am saying is that we should see a tick upward in year two: 6 wins 6 losses, a .500 record. The team had a golden opportunity against Middle Tennessee and didn't get it done. Now, three games left to achieve that tick upward.

W/L records don't, contrary to popular belief, get coaches fired. I've said it a 1000 times. The question isn't "what's their w/l record" it's "is this coach leading the program in the direction we expect"... W/L records come from the answer to that question. W/L records can be lagging indicators (good coaches have 2 below .500 years, while bad coaches have 2 good years before the bottom falls out, Brady Hoke). Casual fans see things in black and white. The decision makers at colleges need a broader question. Otherwise bad teams would stay bad as they recycle coached with losing records.

If we finish with the same record as last year, you ask the same question. If we finish 8-5, you ask the same question.

 

[HOFCeluck]

W/L records don't, contrary to popular belief, get coaches fired. I've said it a 1000 times. The question isn't "what's their w/l record" it's "is this coach leading the program in the direction we expect"... W/L records come from the answer to that question. W/L records can be lagging indicators (good coaches have 2 below .500 years, while bad coaches have 2 good years before the bottom falls out, Brady Hoke). Casual fans see things in black and white. The decision makers at colleges need a broader question. Otherwise bad teams would stay bad as they recycle coached with losing records.

If we finish with the same record as last year, you ask the same question. If we finish 8-5, you ask the same question.

Yeah I mean I didn't want SS to go because he was losing games but because he was a meathead who didn't seem to be learning on the job or getting better at all.

If people really think that applied to HCDB in year two then I dont know what to say.

 

[Alsacs]

Since your from Boston if all that matters is W/L then the idiot John Farrell shouldn’t have been fired or Pete Carroll should have not been fired and you don’t get Belichick.

The win/loss matters for coaches who aren’t inheriting a rebuild a la Scott Shafer.
We hired a coordinator to continue mediocrity and became a laughing stock.
Babers is making us medicore now. He will get us better based on how competitive the team has become.

 

[PhatOrange]

I agree with the premise of your post but...Chris Fredrick is a Shafer recruit ;-)

yes indeed good catch.

Redshirting when Babers came on board so his only playing time has been for Babers.

 

[UnknownOrange]

No matter the situation ... Bill Parcells' quote stinks.

 

[PhatOrange]

also Bradshaw committed under Shafer.

Credit Babers for pulling from grad transfer and juco ranks to buttress the defense, with a few of his regular recruits also playing early (Coleman, Foster, Black, Williams, Ruff).

On offense, Dino’s skill position recruits have yet to emerge in a big way (other than AET last season and to a lesser degree Pierce this season). Too bad - we could have used another playmaker. But, again, the staff did a lot to bolster the defense to make this team competitive.

I had clarified Bradshaw (same as Mo Neal). Shafer found him, Babers retained him by not pulling his offer like he did with 95% of that last Shaf class.

 

[TheCusian]

Yeah I mean I didn't want SS to go because he was losing games but because he was a meathead who didn't seem to be learning on the job or getting better at all.

If people really think that applied to HCDB in year two then I dont know what to say.

Exactly. I was a Shafer guy because I thought you can't fire a guy with all those bad QB breaks... But then it became clear that even with those QB issues he was not leading us to where we wanted to go.

 

[CousCuse]

lol No. You weren't the only poster saying it would take time. I can't think of any responsible posters that thought this would be a quick turnabout. No one thought a magic wand could be waved. you were however, the one that said that UMass would go to a bowl game this year. That the ACC couldn't sleep on taking UMass before they got scooped up by the B1G. That was you. Umass has 2 wins. They beat two tomato cans. They aren't good. and it was laughable to think that the B1G or any P-5 conference would want them. The P-5 doesn't want UConn an they have twice as much to offer. but on something we do care about, Syracuse football is on track. i think they get their two wins and get to 6 wins this year and it's onward and upward from there.

 

[CuseCPT]

This is a terrible, terrible thread. You really screwed the pooch on this one, OP.

 

[Acuse]

Usual results of a coaching change...
New study examines record of football teams after coaching changes

Enjoy.

How dare you bring evidence and rational reasoning to a thread of nonsense

 

[djorange1989]

This pattern was established with the previous coach, so don't abject now that Dino is being subjected to the same short sighted analysis.

Shafer had a short window because Coyle didn’t hire him and never liked him and Shafer wasn’t just a victim of his record, he was an unhinged moron who had no clue how to run a program