Young Player Thoughts......

[newmexicuse]

Amongst the newbies the night belonged to Roberson. Except for his one horrid one minute stretch (forced shot - terrible three point foul) he looked fantastic. I like that he hit an elbow j- he needs to take & make more of those. He was simply tenacious on the glass. Rebounding is a combination of instincts and effort - this kid has the potential to hit the glass hard every game.

McC - The fifth foul was a terrible call, but clearly this wasn't his night. He sometimes lets teh game come a little bit too much to him. I would like to see more consistent assertiveness from him.

Kaleb - Wow, he showed so many flashes & yet he had so many TOs. Obviously his handle is not his strength, which is not a good thing for a PG, but that doesn't mean that he can't learn to protect the ball better. I liked the way he showed toughness to come back after his benching. I am high on this kid, but he needs to play more under control.

BJ - McC needs to be more assertive, BJ needs to let the game come to him much more. If only we could meld the two of them...

Patterson - why the DNP ? Kaleb wasn't that good that he didn't deserve a couple of bench time lectures from Jimmy.

Chino - I don't get it. I have seen very little of this kid, but I can't believe he can't man the middle better than McC when Rak has to sit. The few times I saw his cameos, I actually liked what I saw. It must be very different in practice.

 

[orangejunkie]

Hard to judge on Chino. Boeheim sees him everyday in practice. He has some significant limitations at this point in is career. No confidence in him in a close game.

 

[ORANGEsPHK]

Although I agree that Chino could have seen some minutes in the middle but JB likes to have his most talented people on the floor and if CM can learn to play the middle, with his athleticism, I would have to think this would be of more benefit to the team than having Chino learn to play the middle. Just a guess through since we know we our bench just doesn't go anywhere for the C position.

As to RP no show? I have no idea. He plays pretty good D and could have provided an offensive spark if he hit a few shots, perhaps he was practicing really poorly the last week. Its clear that JB is going to allow KJ to play through and learn from his mistakes, but he gets flustered when pressured and makes poor decisions. What I DID like is how Trevor was in his ear, encouraging him after each mistake and continuing to show support of the young PG - this is going to be critical to KJ's confidence that the team shows support as KJ goes through the learning process.

I think its good that BJ and TR got extended time on the floor. They both did some good things and I hope this will provide some experience and confidence for them going forward.

 

[SUintheVille]

Chino will see plenty of action - from the bench for rest of season.

Kaleb and Cooney bring much more to the floor than Buss, but a few Buss stops on the floor wouldn't hurt periodically to give the others a quick blow.

Got to give BJ credit, he tried to be aggressive and really contribute. And he did some, but he definitely needs more time to develop and to know how to balance aggression and control on the court. A little added strength will continue to help. He was pressing at times and that cost him some mistakes. But again, like his involvement, and improvement will follow.

 

[two3zone]

I never understood "let the game come to him". The games there, you're talented, you know how to play, you practice constantly, you're at a top program, just play on how you know how to play.

 

[anomander]

This Sophomore class just isn't any good. Where we perceive ourselves as a program you have to bring in kids who can produce as Freshman, and be starter quality as a Sophomore. We aren't a developmental program. Out of the entire 2013 class it looks like only Ennis was a homerun. If we see ourselves as a top 10 program you can't go 1 for 5 and expect the status quo.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

This Sophomore class just isn't any good. Where we perceive ourselves as a program you have to bring in kids who can produce as Freshman, and be starter quality as a Sophomore. We aren't a developmental program. Out of the entire 2013 class it looks like only Ennis was a homerun. If we see ourselves as a top 10 program you can't go 1 for 5 and expect the status quo.

I don't know. Seems to me that Ennis was the only one of the sophs who played last year. And it's too to call the whole class a bust...I'll give a few more games ...

 

[newmexicuse]

This Sophomore class just isn't any good. Where we perceive ourselves as a program you have to bring in kids who can produce as Freshman, and be starter quality as a Sophomore. We aren't a developmental program. Out of the entire 2013 class it looks like only Ennis was a homerun. If we see ourselves as a top 10 program you can't go 1 for 5 and expect the status quo.

Way too early to make that call:

Ennis - as you say a home run. Actually a double so he would have stayed would have been much better.

Roberson - are you really giving up on this kid this soon ???? He has the potential to be a double-double machine every time out. Now that he is over his injury & will get steady PT, let's see what he can really do.

BJ - He was recruited for down the road. Everybody knew he was too young & skinny to do much as a frosh & maybe even as a soph. Hopefully he improves steadily throughout this season & makes the big soph to junior jump. The big mistake w BJ was in his not taking a shirt last season.

Buss - he is a high octane kid who could steadily come along - the problem is who is ahead of him & who is behind him - I have my doubts that SU is the right place for him to develop & play.

Chino - big guys usually take a couple of years. Rak oozes w talent & it took him three full seasons to get it together. No reason Chino can't be a career reserve & maybe even start as a senior depending upon who else is on the roster.

So really looking at this class, who did you think would be doing more at this point in their careers ???? I think Ennis, was ahead of schedule and that Roberson, BJ, and Chino are all on schedule depending upon how they do from here. Even Buss is not really behind, it's just that he may not be as talented as others both ahead and behind him.

 

[RF2044]

This Sophomore class just isn't any good. Where we perceive ourselves as a program you have to bring in kids who can produce as Freshman, and be starter quality as a Sophomore. We aren't a developmental program. Out of the entire 2013 class it looks like only Ennis was a homerun. If we see ourselves as a top 10 program you can't go 1 for 5 and expect the status quo.

I don't know. Seems to me that Ennis was the only one of the sophs who played last year. And it's too to call the whole class a bust...I'll give a few more games ...

Agreed. It is foolish to write them off, or make declarative proclamations about how their careers will turn out this early on, when the entire group has barely played. Very reactionary. People will be singing a different tune of BJ / Roberson are big contributors as seniors.

 

[TBCuse11]

Agreed. It is foolish to write them off, or make declarative proclamations about how their careers will turn out this early on, when the entire group has barely played. Very reactionary. People will be singing a different tune of BJ / Roberson are big contributors as seniors.

agreed. They will be very good. I do think, however, Patterson could/would start for many many top 50 programs. He may want to transfer. A school the likes Providence, Arkansas, Northwestern, etc... he could be a star. He just isnt going to get the time her that he needs and might deserve.

 

[RF2044]

agreed. They will be very good. I do think, however, Patterson could/would start for many many top 50 programs. He may want to transfer. A school the likes Providence, Arkansas, Northwestern, etc... he could be a star. He just isnt going to get the time her that he needs and might deserve.

I think he's a big candidate to transfer, as well. And I've been one of his most vocal supporters on here after seeing him practice last season. I know he could help us, but he just doesn't seem to be able to shoot in games. I have no idea why he got a DNP yesterday--Kaleb was struggling in the second half.

 

[TBCuse11]

I think he's a big candidate to transfer, as well. And I've been one of his most vocal supporters on here after seeing him practice last season. I know he could help us, but he just doesn't seem to be able to shoot in games. I have no idea why he got a DNP yesterday--Kaleb was struggling in the second half.

i think given the roster we have this year, its a travesty that he doesnt play. and i bet he thinks this as well... we are not trotting out guys like Waiters, Ennis, MCW, or even Triche. These are all role players to some degree. It almost seems that Jim wants him to transfer with Malachi coming in and Cooney still here (and G).

 

[RF2044]

i think given the roster we have this year, its a travesty that he doesnt play. and i bet he thinks this as well... we are not trotting out guys like Waiters, Ennis, MCW, or even Triche. These are all role players to some degree. It almost seems that Jim wants him to transfer with Malachi coming in and Cooney still here (and G).

The way Patterson played the first few exhibtion games / the opening game of the season is what I expected from him all year. Not that he was going to go 4-6 from three point range all year, but that he'd come into games and provide an infusion of scoring, get to the basket on the break, provide Joseph with a few minutes of rest here and there, and also provide complimentary three point shooting on the opposite side of the floor from Cooney. I also expected him to have some ups and downs, like all young players experience when they get their first dose of consistent PT. But the DNPs to me are puzzling.

And frankly, Patterson hasn't helped his cause by shooting it so poorly. He had so many good looks against St. John's--they just didn't drop. The frustrating thing is, I know he can help this team.

 

[Lawrinson14]

This Sophomore class just isn't any good. Where we perceive ourselves as a program you have to bring in kids who can produce as Freshman, and be starter quality as a Sophomore. We aren't a developmental program. Out of the entire 2013 class it looks like only Ennis was a homerun. If we see ourselves as a top 10 program you can't go 1 for 5 and expect the status quo.

I don't know if I would go as far as to say that they stink. However, in today's college basketball world, recruits at a supposed high-major should be able to come in and produce right away. By year 2, there should be no question that the players should be able to contribute and be integral to the team's success.

If it takes 3 or 4 years for a recruit to develop (centers not included), then I think the scholarship could have been better served going somewhere else.
Unless you are a Gonzaga or Butler, who rely on players older than most NBA starting lineups, there is no time to wait around for recruits to develop.

Sorry, that's just what college basketball has become.

And please, don't bring up guys like Rick Jackson and Andy Rautins. By his sophomore year, Rick was playing 22 minutes/game. Andy on the other hand, made nearly 70 threes (on 36% shooting) in his sophomore year.

 

[Wallo]

Hard to judge on Chino. Boeheim sees him everyday in practice. He has some significant limitations at this point in is career. No confidence in him in a close game.

JB,s comment about Chinoso 0n 11/14/14
Do you think Chinonso Obokoh contributed quality minutes?
“I thought Chinonso did a good job in the first half. He did really well. On defense, he gets his hands involved. Down low his defense was good."

 

[jdubs30]

agreed. They will be very good. I do think, however, Patterson could/would start for many many top 50 programs. He may want to transfer. A school the likes Providence, Arkansas, Northwestern, etc... he could be a star. He just isnt going to get the time her that he needs and might deserve.

I like Patterson, but you really think he could be a "star" if he went elsewhere? He could get more PT sure, but I don't know if calling a kid who can't get any playing time here a "Star" if he left

 

[longislandcuse]

Way too early to make that call:

Ennis - as you say a home run. Actually a double so he would have stayed would have been much better.

Roberson - are you really giving up on this kid this soon ???? He has the potential to be a double-double machine every time out. Now that he is over his injury & will get steady PT, let's see what he can really do.

BJ - He was recruited for down the road. Everybody knew he was too young & skinny to do much as a frosh & maybe even as a soph. Hopefully he improves steadily throughout this season & makes the big soph to junior jump. The big mistake w BJ was in his not taking a shirt last season.

Buss - he is a high octane kid who could steadily come along - the problem is who is ahead of him & who is behind him - I have my doubts that SU is the right place for him to develop & play.

Chino - big guys usually take a couple of years. Rak oozes w talent & it took him three full seasons to get it together. No reason Chino can't be a career reserve & maybe even start as a senior depending upon who else is on the roster.

So really looking at this class, who did you think would be doing more at this point in their careers ???? I think Ennis, was ahead of schedule and that Roberson, BJ, and Chino are all on schedule depending upon how they do from here. Even Buss is not really behind, it's just that he may not be as talented as others both ahead and behind him.

This partially goes to his point. That class is not on the level of what we recruit at and need to recruit at in order to be a Top 20 team year in/year out. Yea, we had some early defections to the NBA that we didn't count on but coaching staff's do miss on recruiting classes, it even happens to the big name teams like us. This one looks like a miss, even if they get better as seniors, it is what it is.. we need them to be better as sophomores and freshman.
I liked what I saw out of Roberson and if he can be Dennis Rodman on the glass everygame and not just against an awful rebounding team than we may have something in him. So far, only he and Ennis, who is now gone, have shown flashes...
Why are 3/5th's of that class "developmental" players? This isn't Boston College.
All that being said, they still have a plenty of games to prove us wrong.

 

[Gotothehole]

Not ready to give up on this team. But our starting guards need to be sitting on the pine. Rather go with Buss and G

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Not ready to give up on this team. But our starting guards need to be sitting on the pine. Rather go with Buss and G

Why's that? I think that's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We don't get any better this year unless KJ grows through his struggles...

 

[cpatrocks]

Not ready to give up on this team. But our starting guards need to be sitting on the pine. Rather go with Buss and G

Even after yesterday you're not ready to have Cooney stay in the game?

 

[CuseHulk]

Not ready to give up on this team. But our starting guards need to be sitting on the pine. Rather go with Buss and G

 

[RF2044]

This partially goes to his point. That class is not on the level of what we recruit at and need to recruit at in order to be a Top 20 team year in/year out. Yea, we had some early defections to the NBA that we didn't count on but coaching staff's do miss on recruiting classes, it even happens to the big name teams like us. This one looks like a miss, even if they get better as seniors, it is what it is.. we need them to be better as sophomores and freshman.
I liked what I saw out of Roberson and if he can be Dennis Rodman on the glass everygame and not just against an awful rebounding team than we may have something in him. So far, only he and Ennis, who is now gone, have shown flashes...
Why are 3/5th's of that class "developmental" players? This isn't Boston College.
All that being said, they still have a plenty of games to prove us wrong.

Give me a break with the Boston College comparison--I think that the main issue is lack of perspective on the part of some posters. The class had two highly rated players--Ennis and Roberson. Ennis was a stud. Roberson has been inconsistent, but looks like he could be a three year starter.

BJ was a sleeper with athletic upside, but who was physically underdeveloped. Anyone who was expecting him to contribute last year or make big contributions from the jump weren't being realistic. In the interest of full disclosure--I expected him to perform better than he has this year. He still can. But even if he doesn't, there is NOTHING WRONG with a player being a two year contributor if he goes on to be an important factor over his final two seasons. Crikey.

Obokoh was always deemed as a developmental prospect. That doesn't mean that he was a waste of a scholarship, as some are suggesting. We wouldn't even be having this conversation if Coleman hadn't gotten injured. If he ends up being a 2-3 year backup big, as above--there's nothing wrong with that.

Buss I personally see as a throw-in with McCullough. He needs to do better, as he has already been recruited over with Howard / Richardson coming. I believe that he CAN, in fact, play better. If not, then he might transfer.

Here's the bottom line: there is no question that recruiting has improved in recent years, and that's exciting. But the notion that we are / should recruit like kentucky, duke, or unc lacks perspective. What JB excels at is getting a handful of exceptional recruits and mixing them with role-playing program guys. When the chemistry / experience level is right, we have some very good teams. And please don't mistake "role-playing program guys" as an insult--we've had lots of above average guys who fit into that mold. Kris Joseph. CJ Fair. Andy Rautins. Gerry McNamara. Demetris Nichols. James Southerland.

Those are the types of players that BJ Johnson, Patterson, Roberson, etc. could very easily end up turning into. Which is why it is premature to write them off, despite the lack of early returns.

 

[anomander]

Agreed. It is foolish to write them off, or make declarative proclamations about how their careers will turn out this early on, when the entire group has barely played. Very reactionary. People will be singing a different tune of BJ / Roberson are big contributors as seniors.

They are all solid recruits, but if we see ourselves as a top 10 program they aren't. Look at the schools we compare ourselves with; Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UNC, Florida, Michigan, etc, they schools are churning kids out to the NBA as much as we have, if not more. Do you think it's a coincidence that all a sudden we have a down year, and there is no break out Sophomore who will be leaving school? Half of that class doesn't even get minutes. You have to have NBA level talent if you want to compete at the level we think we should be. I'm sorry, but if we're bringing in a class of 5 you can't have 1 kid have NBA talent and expect to remain at the status quo. The 2013 recruiting class was a miss...unless we are fine with being a bubble team, otherwise i am sure the 4 will all be solid 4 year players.

 

[anomander]

Way too early to make that call:

Ennis - as you say a home run. Actually a double so he would have stayed would have been much better.

Roberson - are you really giving up on this kid this soon ???? He has the potential to be a double-double machine every time out. Now that he is over his injury & will get steady PT, let's see what he can really do.

BJ - He was recruited for down the road. Everybody knew he was too young & skinny to do much as a frosh & maybe even as a soph. Hopefully he improves steadily throughout this season & makes the big soph to junior jump. The big mistake w BJ was in his not taking a shirt last season.

Buss - he is a high octane kid who could steadily come along - the problem is who is ahead of him & who is behind him - I have my doubts that SU is the right place for him to develop & play.

Chino - big guys usually take a couple of years. Rak oozes w talent & it took him three full seasons to get it together. No reason Chino can't be a career reserve & maybe even start as a senior depending upon who else is on the roster.

So really looking at this class, who did you think would be doing more at this point in their careers ???? I think Ennis, was ahead of schedule and that Roberson, BJ, and Chino are all on schedule depending upon how they do from here. Even Buss is not really behind, it's just that he may not be as talented as others both ahead and behind him.

It doesn't matter how they will be down the road. If we were a developmental program that would be fine. But when you are losing 1 or 2 kids early every year to the NBA you better be able to reload your roster. If we want to remain as a top 10 program you can't sit back and wait for 4 kids out of a 5 man class until their Junior and Senior season.

 

[anomander]

I don't know if I would go as far as to say that they stink. However, in today's college basketball world, recruits at a supposed high-major should be able to come in and produce right away. By year 2, there should be no question that the players should be able to contribute and be integral to the team's success.

If it takes 3 or 4 years for a recruit to develop (centers not included), then I think the scholarship could have been better served going somewhere else.
Unless you are a Gonzaga or Butler, who rely on players older than most NBA starting lineups, there is no time to wait around for recruits to develop.

Sorry, that's just what college basketball has become.

And please, don't bring up guys like Rick Jackson and Andy Rautins. By his sophomore year, Rick was playing 22 minutes/game. Andy on the other hand, made nearly 70 threes (on 36% shooting) in his sophomore year.

This is exactly what I am saying. It is what it is. People can spin it however they want, but we are seeing the results. There is nothing anyone can say unless we all a sudden run off 20 straight games.