2015 NFL season general discussion thread

[Melancer46]

If you got 2 feet down and then fell and the ball came out as you hit the ground (in the endzone), would that be considered a TD or incomplete pass? I think the same principal should apply here. Beckham had to hold onto that ball through the swipe which was the last football move in that play before it would've been a TD.

It would be ruled incomplete because the rule specifically when going to the ground is that you have to maintain control all the way through. Same reason Landon Collins' INT was ruled incomplete. He caught it and got both feet down, and even held onto it when he hit the ground, but the ball came out as he rolled over, so therefore, incomplete.

As currently written, I don't think that rule applies to the Beckham catch/non-catch though.

 

[Toga]

Any rule that says control with two feet down in the end zone isn't a TD is just stupid.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Any rule that says control with two feet down in the end zone isn't a TD is just stupid.

Beckham didn't control the ball though. It was stripped. Part of the play. That ball is incomplete 100% of the time between the endzones and not a fumble, so why should it be complete in the end zone?

 

[Alsacs]

Am i in the minority that thinks Beckham needed to hold onto the ball? I know everyone but Alsacs hates the Pat's here, but when is this ever called a catch?

The conversation s/b Malcom Butler made a great play.

Bulter went man to man with the best WR in the NFL and was awesome. Beckham and Gronk each got long TDs because their opposing safeties took horrible angles and made 40 yard catches into 76 and 87 yard TDs.

peyton has a torn plantar faciitis.

patsies cheated.

Pats cheated? C'mon man you are better than that. That was the best game of the year. Eli/Coughlin bungled the time management. If the Giants run on first down instead throwing that pass to Beckham the Giants could have taken an extra 40 seconds off the clock and left the Pats 1:05.

I just want the Giants out this team could easily be 9-1 right now. Eli becomes the best QB when he says the Pats helmet.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Rob Ryan was fired finally!!! It's a celebration for me today. I've never seen a defense be so bad year after year as his!

I love Brees but maybe its time we consider trading him to a contender who is a QB away from winning the SB and starting over.

Denver might be a perfect spot next year for him.

 

[Alsacs]

I think the endzone catch rule is horrible but it was correctly called. Beckham didn't finish the play. Pats D gave up a lot of yards but didn't give up a second half TD. The play nobody is talking was the Nikovich sack after Brady fumbled at NE 31 and knocked them out of FG range.

 

[Toga]

Beckham didn't control the ball though. It was stripped. Part of the play. That ball is incomplete 100% of the time between the endzones and not a fumble, so why should it be complete in the end zone?

For the same reason a runner who lunges across the goal line with the ball but gets it stripped before he hits the ground - is awarded a TD. The goal line is a magical place where life as we know it immediately ends as soon as it is crossed.

 

[Cusefan0307]

For the same reason a runner who lunges across the goal line with the ball but gets it stripped before he hits the ground - is awarded a TD. The goal line is a magical place where life as we know it immediately ends as soon as it is crossed.

I guess the difference is the ball already broke the plane so the play is effectively over. A catch isn't a catch until it is properly secured. I agree the rule sucks, but like Collinsworth said in the SNF broadcast last night, it's that way because he thinks the NFL is trying to avoid a gluttony of fumbles that would occur from that particular type of play. The same play happened in that game last night and was ruled incomplete on the field for Arizona.

 

[Tobias Funke]

I'm sure it's happened before, but I can't really remember a situation where a guy caught the ball in the end zone and got both feet down, then dropped the ball after the fact without going to the ground. I get the idea that "between the endzones, you have to get two feet down, and make a football move, so therefore, the same applies in the end zone" but making a football move on a play where the play basically ends once you get both feet down is just weird. Just a really weird and rare situation that happened yesterday.

The real issue was Landon Collins dropping the easy interception, and there was seemingly another clock issue with 2:10 left in the game that seemed to allow the Patriots to save 40 seconds of the clock.

Edit: I may be wrong on the clock issue. I thought I saw something weird happen, and a lot of other people seemed to notice as well, but I never went back to re-watch it to see what exactly happened.

the clock issue was one that was wrong on the broadcast but right on the field. On the broadcast they were 6 seconds behind after the Patriots timeout. The officials corrected it and it was accurate from that point forward on the field. And yes Collins could have ended the game had he not come down so hard on the field. Not too far off from Asanta Samuel letting the ball go right through his hands in the SB.

 

[Tobias Funke]

For the same reason a runner who lunges across the goal line with the ball but gets it stripped before he hits the ground - is awarded a TD. The goal line is a magical place where life as we know it immediately ends as soon as it is crossed.

I think the majority of the board agrees with you on the rule being stupid. Fact is it was called correctly on review and regardless of the stupidity of it, that is just the rule.

 

[KaiserUEO]

wanted that one badly, thought we had it. radio is saying that the play call on 1st was a run, but Eli audibled out of it. obviously, he thought he saw something and basically...he did. muthfluka. Eli will be on with Mike at 5, going to be a fun listen.

but at the end of the day, theyre coming off the bye in 1st. either tied or solo with their season still in their hands. the path to playoffs remains the same, come out of the bye and win next 3.

Cruz has mercifully been shut down, or he took himself out for good, either way that dead roster spot is gone.

 

[Toga]

I guess the difference is the ball already broke the plane so the play is effectively over. A catch isn't a catch until it is properly secured. I agree the rule sucks, but like Collinsworth said in the SNF broadcast last night, it's that way because he thinks the NFL is trying to avoid a gluttony of fumbles that would occur from that particular type of play. The same play happened in that game last night and was ruled incomplete on the field for Arizona.

I realize this is a 1st world problem but for me it boils down to - if you have control of the ball and two feet in the field of play - it should be a catch. Here is a hypothetical - player catches the ball at mid-field. Shakes and bakes with his upper body for 3 seconds but doesn't move his feet. Defender comes and strips the ball 4 seconds after it was caught = no catch? I also don't agree that when a guy lays out for a ball on the sideline - has control of the ball but has the ball bounce out when he hits the ground = no catch. A thing of beauty but no catch. :crazy: I thought the ground couldn't cause a fumble. They need to name me as head of the rules so I can party on Jerry Jones' bus.

 

[Toga]

I think the majority of the board agrees with you on the rule being stupid. Fact is it was called correctly on review and regardless of the stupidity of it, that is just the rule.

Not disputing that the stupid rule was properly enforced.

 

[ssbriefcase]

So how many seconds has to elapse from when a player catches a td pass with control and 2 feet down, to when he can purposely throw the ball down?

 

[Toga]

So how many seconds has to elapse from when a player catches a td pass with control and 2 feet down, to when he can purposely throw the ball down?

Oooh. Good one.

 

[Melancer46]

I think the endzone catch rule is horrible but it was correctly called. Beckham didn't finish the play. Pats D gave up a lot of yards but didn't give up a second half TD. The play nobody is talking was the Nikovich sack after Brady fumbled at NE 31 and knocked them out of FG range.

No doubt that sack was a huge play; basically the one thing the Giants couldn't allow to happen in that situation.

 

[Orangeman]

Yeah I knew that TD wasn't going to stand. The ball got knocked out simultaneous to him getting both feet on the ground. That's not a catch on any part of the field, including the endzone. If the ball had kicked around in the endzone after that, and the Pats recovered, Giants fans would be screaming that it was an incomplete pass.

Uh, that would have been a TD.

No oppty for a fumble there

 

[Briancuse]

wanted that one badly, thought we had it. radio is saying that the play call on 1st was a run, but Eli audibled out of it. obviously, he thought he saw something and basically...he did. muthfluka. Eli will be on with Mike at 5, going to be a fun listen.

but at the end of the day, theyre coming off the bye in 1st. either tied or solo with their season still in their hands. the path to playoffs remains the same, come out of the bye and win next 3.

Cruz has mercifully been shut down, or he took himself out for good, either way that dead roster spot is gone.

Mike said Eli will be on at 2, since they have a bye, and he will be traveling later.

 

[Orangeman]

So how many seconds has to elapse from when a player catches a td pass with control and 2 feet down, to when he can purposely throw the ball down?

This is exactly the correct argument

If this had happened to the Patriots against he Giants there would be a rule change in the off-season

Actually, they would probably change the rule during the rule by fiat

 

[KaiserUEO]

Mike said Eli will be on at 2, since they have a bye, and he will be traveling later.

thanks for the heads up.

ill put him on now. looks like ill be, ahem, in a conf call for 30mins.

 

[bpo57]

I thought the NYG had a chance to run the ball three times and kick a FG which prolly would have given the ball back to the Pats with around :30 to go with no TOs. Instead they threw the ball which stopped the clock. Third game this year where Tom/Eli mismanaged the clock. All three were Ls.

 

[Bayside44]

I thought the NYG had a chance to run the ball three times and kick a FG which prolly would have given the ball back to the Pats with around :30 to go with no TOs. Instead they threw the ball which stopped the clock. Third game this year where Tom/Eli mismanaged the clock. All three were Ls.

There was a 2 minute warning and a Pats TO in there. So no.

Dallas was on them, this well happened.

 

[shandeezy7]

There was a 2 minute warning and a Pats TO in there. So no.

Dallas was on them, this well happened.

Here's the play-by-play:

• 1st and Goal at NE 5
  (2:06 - 4th) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short left to O.Beckham Jr. for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN. The Replay Official reviewed the pass completion ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) E.Manning pass incomplete short left to O.Beckham Jr. (M.Butler)

• 2nd and Goal at NE 5
  (2:01 - 4th) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass incomplete short right to D.Harris
• (1:56 - 4th) Two-Minute Warning
  
• 3rd and Goal at NE 5
  (1:56 - 4th) (Shotgun) E.Manning sacked at NE 11 for -6 yards (M.Brown)
  
• (1:50 - 4th) Timeout #3 by NE at 01:50.
  
• 4th and Goal at NE 11
  (1:47 - 4th) Josh Brown 29 Yd Field Goal

Let's say they run it on first down instead of pass it and the Pats don't use their timeout. That brings it to the two-minute warning. 2nd down - run it again, Pats use their last timeout with, let's say 1:55 left on the clock. 3rd down, run it again and let's assume the play takes 5 seconds. 40 second play clock on 4th down would bring it down to 1:10 remaining. So yeah, there would have been more than 30 seconds remaining, but the Giants did still give away a solid 40-45 seconds, which ended up being the difference in the Pats being able to get into field goal range. I do get the line of thinking of going for the TD there, but who's to say they still wouldn't have been able to punch it in by running the ball?

 

[bpo57]

There was a 2 minute warning and a Pats TO in there. So no.

Dallas was on them, this well happened.

I did the math as shandeezy did above and the Pats would have had the ball with around 1:10 with no TOs left. Certainly possible for the Pats but a lot harder than 1:48. At a minimum they should have tried to run the ball down there. Too many bad things can happen with a pass.

 

[Briancuse]

thanks for the heads up.

ill put him on now. looks like ill be, ahem, in a conf call for 30mins.

No problem, even though your a Giants fan, your a good guy, btw the interview will be replayed at 6.