ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment | Page 82 | Syracusefan.com

ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

Just blow it up; and screw ESPN. We should just apply for BIG 12 membership right now.
 
What’s tough for me to understand is if there’s a super league of Big Ten and SEC schools, some of the schools aren’t going to be thrilled with a prospect of having very few winnable games. You need the crappier programs in order to bring balance to the football universe. Yeah the universities will get a ton of money, but how happy will some of the mid to lower tier schools in the super league be when they have very little prospects for success? I just don’t see how this works long term. Not everyone can be haves.
 
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The article is mostly right but leaves out the part where the ACC traded the broadcast rights of each team to ESPN in return for the network and deal. ESPN will still own the broadcast rights of each team even if the ACC disbands.
Agreed.
Right now the ACC is a marriage of convenience & the article basically reiterates that the GOR is the only reason why.
ESPN is not willing to renegotiate and the "Magnificent 7" can huff and puff all they want, but it won't change anything.
The smart play would be to work together and literally push ESPN to renegotiate the contract. Players do it all the time, whenever their value exceeds their compensation.
If the conference stuck together, approached ESPN and demanded a redo, damn the torpedoes and all, ESPN would have to do...something. And of course if Notre Dame joined the party, ESPN would have to act.
Whatever happens, this "every man for himself" posture will only hasten the inevitable. It's stupid and shortsighted...but what else is new?
 
"Merit-based" revenue ultimately won't satisfy FSU, Clemson and Miami because they think they should be paid more as "brands" irrespective of on-field performance. It also does next to nothing for the other four who are rarely contenders for much of anything in football.
All of this is starting to remind me of divorced couples continuing to live in the same house.
F em. They have no leverage. They're leaving a year or two before the GOR ends whether or not they get merit based revenue.
 
These articles reveal which writers are know nothing fools and which have a brain in their heads.

McMurphy and Forde are in the group of idiots. How sad.

Yep. And they’re all based on that original article which was wrong.
 
I dream of the day they would poach Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Maryland, Northwestern, Illinois, and Rutgers from B10, plus Cincy and West Virginia from B12 to form a true conference that makes sense.

24 teams
BC, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Maryland

PSU, MSU, OSU, Michigan, Northwestern, Illinois

Cincy, WVU, Ville, Va Tech, NC State, Clemson

Duke, Wake, UNC, FSU, GaTech, Miami

Play your pod (5 games)
Play 2 from each other pod (6 games)
Play 2 OOC games
Play bowl game

Adds one week to season (extra revenue)

Remnants of B10 merge with B12 or SEC

Whomever is left merges with WAC /PAC

Three conferences of 24.
Fairy tales can come true it can happen to you...
 
My feeling for a long time is to strongly consider Oregon and perhaps Arizona and Arizona state. I’d the. Look at Houston or Oklahoma state idk I just think we just keep waiting for the situation to get better. I just think we need to continue to be creative to bring in notre dame let them keep their tv rights we need to do something I hate watching our team be on the outs it kills me
 
I have stated many times, as well as several others, that loading up on the bigger names into superconferences only pushes down the present middle of the pack to to cellar dwellers. Conference play is a zero sum gain regardless of how you expand, total wins always equals total losses. Sure, right now conference can get 3-4 wins in OOC games, but that is less impressive when you have to face CFB's equivalent of Murderer's Row in conference.

The SEC has Alabama, Georgia, LSU (traditional powers - mostly consistent winners, then add in OU and UT), with Florida, Tennessee, Auburn (resurgent powers, good with flashes of greatness, now add in TAMU), followed by Ole Miss, Mississippi St., Arkansas, USC-East, the solid middle of the pack, and Mizzou for good measure) and closing out with UK and Vandy (bottom feeders, cellar dwellers, punching bags). Yes, any team can step up in any given season and any team can fall in any given season; regardless, the wins equals the losses. If it weren't for the 4 OOC games, the bottom half will rarely see a 6-6 or better season. With the new powerhouses being added, within the conference play, there will be a slew of losers. Take away the OOC games and the SEC is screwed. Royally screwed.

The Big has been ruled historically by UM and tOSU; they added PSU and Nebraska, historically great schools (traditional powers, now add in USC-West, not the fake one in Jersey, we'll see them shortly); followed by Wiscy, Iowa State, MSU, and Maryland (resurgent powers, add in UCLA); then Minny Purdue, Northwestern (the solid middle of the pack, closing out with Indiana, Illinois, and Rutgers (bottom feeders, cellar dwellers, punching bags). Again, any team can step up in any given season and any given team can fall in any given season; nevertheless, wins always equals the losses. Like the SEC, if not for the 3 OOC games, the bottom rarely ever sees a 6-6 or better season.

The result is that the superconference idea only works under two methods: First; if there is a pool of teams to "build-up" the superconferences to appear as the "real" powers. Second; if the superconferences break away and form a semi-pro league. Each option has issues.

In the first, the superconferences can never ditch the pool of teams to beat up on. To do this, there must be middle of teh pack conferences and bottom feeder conferences. CFB remains a zero sum gain no matter how many teams play and how many conferences are in play, wins will equal losses. At least everyone has an imaginary shot at the playoffs and title

In the second; the the picture becomes bleak. If the two (or three) superconfernces break away, they no longer have the other conferences to beat up on and the above reviews of the conferences becomes much more balanced. Former top teams will fall to the middle, the middle falls to the bottom. Fans stop being diehards when their team is a punching bag. Sure, the fans may follow their team but less attendance, less interest in other games, and less merchandise purchased. Further, fans of other conference are more likely to follow their team in the "old" NCAA D1 which no longer play with the superconferences. Less interest from these fans to follow the superconferences. We have an NFL as it is, a minor league for teh NFL pretending to be college teams is basically nonsense. Sure a few teams will be happy but overall the ratings are down.

- To be sure, the superconferences could expand (larger conferences or add one superconference or two) sufficiently to ensure more bottom feeders, but internet talking heads have already deemed this is impossible. (What's impossible is that these same internet talking heads then project the two superconferences at 20, 24, and 28 teams, but ignore the fact they they undercut their own opinions that the the expansion is impossible, they have deemed it so).

So what do the ACC, Big 12, and PAC12 do? I, as well as several others, have stated and alluded to this dilemma faced by the SEC and B1G; hopefully I can do a better job explaining the matter than previously.

Knowing that 32 teams is simply insufficient for a breakaway league to hold CFB fans, the two superconferences will have to expand or allow other conferences to stay in the game. Fans are loyal to their respective teams, cutting "my school" out of the semi-pro league will make fans stay fans of the present-soon-to-be-lower division. The present ACC, Big12 and Pac12 teams should sit tight. Let the the superconferences beat themselves up over several years. The Big12 and the PAC12 will have new conference leaders. The ACC will likely have FSU and Clemson or other leaders. When Alabama is brought down to earth after Saban retires, OU and UT are meh teams (yes, I have no clue which teams will be in power in 10+ years), and the former solid middle teams are bottom feeders, there will be a shift in power.

If the super conferences want to expand now (within the next few years) with ACC teams, they have to provide a soft landing for 14 teams...and placate ND and ESPN. Each is an Hercuean task in itself, combine the three together and, yo are in miracle territory. There is no incentive to dissolve a conference when their is no landing place guaranteed for anyone let alone the other teams necessary to dissolve the ACC. Meanwhile, ND and ESPN still hold sway, along with the remaining ACC teams that the internet talking heads have deemed have no hope at life in CFBdom. Why would ND vote for anything that upsets their apple cart? Why would the remaining ACC teams vote for anything against their self interest? (Recall the alleged leaving teams are acting in their self interest) Why would ESPN blow up it's profitable property unless they can make more money? Presently, the ACC teams individually align with the ACC as a whole, ND, and ESPN.

The ACC has 13 seasons left together. The ACC schools should buy popcorn and watch the SEC and B1G settle the superconference winners and losers battles with the big names. In 13 years, the landscape will change significantly. The ACC will look much better and more stable as the others are infighting, backbiting, and wondering why the left their conference for this ^&%#&^%! They could still be King of the Hill if they weren't so arrogant and greedy.

We haven't even considered hoops. If the SEC and B1G split off, they will lose a lot of cash. They cannot afford to leave the Div. 1 group in hoops. Nobody wants to watch NBA lite (see the G-league. Who cares about the G-league unless there is a player or two you are pulling for?) Much of the present media deals are predicated on significant hoops revenue. You cannot take 32 teams out of 320 and say they are elite and will take all the revenue. NCAA hoops is built more on the loyalty fans to their school than CFB. Sure, they could sway the Big East and maybe another super hoops conference to join them, but again, not sufficient teams to sway the masses to give up their respective loyalties. Let's be honest, they still don't have sufficient teams to furnish a Field of Sixty-Four, even with the worst teams in their conferences.

Once the non-superconferences realize they hold power by not playing the superconferences, the money will have to shift to the lower conferences. Either in better deals for the lower conferences or in higher priced body-bag games. Even then, fans are will not be impressed is tOSU beats up on Florida Atlantic! We can probably expect disdain for the superconferences if they play and beat up the lowly unwashed teams of CFB.

Time is as much the ACC's friend as it is their enemy.

For SU, Time is probably more of a friend. SU is on the right trajectory. Will Dino be the HC in 12 years? Only if he wins. The Board and Admin are behind SU Sports (don't believe all of the NIL drama. I have no insight, but knowing that SU avoided overpaying for Jesse Edwards (of whom I am a fan) shows me they are handling the business side within their abilities and they are not panicking.

Take a deep breath, slowly exhale, watch the next 13 years and enjoy. While I think SU will be fine, I am staying with SU even if they are relegated to the non-semi-pro league. At least SU is staying on mission: Education of young adults to become leaders of the future.
 
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I have stated many times, as well as several others, that loading up on the bigger names into superconferences only pushes down the present middle of the pack to to cellar dwellers. Conference play is a zero sum gain regardless of how you expand, total wins always equals total losses. Sure, right now conference can get 3-4 wins in OOC games, but that is less impressive when you have to face CFB's equivalent of Murderer's Row in conference.

The SEC has Alabama, Georgia, LSU (traditional powers - mostly consistent winners, then add in OU and UT), with Florida, Tennessee, Auburn (resurgent powers, good with flashes of greatness, now add in TAMU), followed by Ole Miss, Mississippi St., Arkansas, USC-East, the solid middle of the pack, and Mizzou for good measure) and closing out with UK and Vandy (bottom feeders, cellar dwellers, punching bags). Yes, any team can step up in any given season and any team can fall in any given season; regardless, the wins equals the losses. If it weren't for the 4 OOC games, the bottom half will rarely see a 6-6 or better season. With the new powerhouses being added, within the conference play, there will be a slew of losers. Take away the OOC games and the SEC is screwed. Royally screwed.

The Big has been ruled historically by UM and tOSU; they added PSU and Nebraska, historically great schools (traditional powers, now add in USC-West, not the fake one in Jersey, we'll see them shortly); followed by Wiscy, Iowa State, MSU, and Maryland (resurgent powers, add in UCLA); then Minny Purdue, Northwestern (the solid middle of the pack, closing out with Indiana, Illinois, and Rutgers (bottom feeders, cellar dwellers, punching bags). Again, any team can step up in any given season and any given team can fall in any given season; nevertheless, wins always equals the losses. Like the SEC, if not for the 3 OOC games, the bottom rarely ever sees a 6-6 or better season.

The result is that the superconference idea only works under two methods: First; if there is a pool of teams to "build-up" the superconferences to appear as the "real" powers. Second; if the superconferences break away and form a semi-pro league. Each option has issues.

In the first, the superconferences can never ditch the pool of teams to beat up on. To do this, there must be middle of teh pack conferences and bottom feeder conferences. CFB remains a zero sum gain no matter how many teams play and how many conferences are in play, wins will equal losses. At least everyone has an imaginary shot at the playoffs and title

In the second; the the picture becomes bleak. If the two (or three) superconfernces break away, they no longer have the other conferences to beat up on and the above reviews of the conferences becomes much more balanced. Former top teams will fall to the middle, the middle falls to the bottom. Fans stop being diehards when their team is a punching bag. Sure, the fans may follow their team but less attendance, less interest in other games, and less merchandise purchased. Further, fans of other conference are more likely to follow their team in the "old" NCAA D1 which no longer play with the superconferences. Less interest from these fans to follow the superconferences. We have an NFL as it is, a minor league for teh NFL pretending to be college teams is basically nonsense. Sure a few teams will be happy but overall the ratings are down.

- To be sure, the superconferences could expand (larger conferences or add one superconference or two) sufficiently to ensure more bottom feeders, but internet talking heads have already deemed this is impossible. (What's impossible is that these same internet talking heads then project the two superconferences at 20, 24, and 28 teams, but ignore the fact they they undercut their own opinions that the the expansion is impossible, they have deemed it so).

So what do the ACC, Big 12, and PAC12 do? I, as well as several others, have stated and alluded to this dilemma faced by the SEC and B1G; hopefully I can do a better job explaining the matter than previously.

Knowing that 32 teams is simply insufficient for a breakaway league to hold CFB fans, the two superconferences will have to expand or allow other conferences to stay in the game. Fans are loyal to their respective teams, cutting "my school" out of the semi-pro league will make fans stay fans of the present-soon-to-be-lower division. The present ACC, Big12 and Pac12 teams should sit tight. Let the the superconferences beat themselves up over several years. The Big12 and the PAC12 will have new conference leaders. The ACC will likely have FSU and Clemson or other leaders. When Alabama is brought down to earth after Saban retires, OU and UT are meh teams (yes, I have no clue which teams will be in power in 10+ years), and the former solid middle teams are bottom feeders, there will be a shift in power.

If the super conferences want to expand now (within the next few years) with ACC teams, they have to provide a soft landing for 14 teams...and placate ND and ESPN. Each is an Hercuean task in itself, combine the three together and, yo are in miracle territory. There is no incentive to dissolve a conference when their is no landing place guaranteed for anyone let alone the other teams necessary to dissolve the ACC. Meanwhile, ND and ESPN still hold sway, along with the remaining ACC teams that the internet talking heads have deemed have no hope at life in CFBdom. Why would ND vote for anything that upsets their apple cart? Why would the remaining ACC teams vote for anything against their self interest? (Recall the alleged leaving teams are acting in their self interest) Why would ESPN blow up it's profitable property unless they can make more money? Presently, the ACC teams individually align with the ACC as a whole, ND, and ESPN.

The ACC has 13 seasons left together. The ACC schools should buy popcorn and watch the SEC and B1G settle the superconference winners and losers battles with the big names. In 13 years, the landscape will change significantly. The ACC will look much better and more stable as the others are infighting, backbiting, and wondering why the left their conference for this ^&%#&^%! They could still be King of the Hill if they weren't so arrogant and greedy.

We haven't even considered hoops. If the SEC and B1G split off, they will lose a lot of cash. They cannot afford to leave the Div. 1 group in hoops. Nobody wants to watch NBA lite (see the G-league. Who cares about the G-league unless there is a player or two you are pulling for?) Much of the present media deals are predicated on significant hoops revenue. You cannot take 32 teams out of 320 and say they are elite and will take all the revenue. NCAA hoops is built more on the loyalty fans to their school than CFB. Sure, they could sway the Big East and maybe another super hoops conference to join them, but again, not sufficient teams to sway the masses to give up their respective loyalties. Let's be honest, they still don't have sufficient teams to furnish a Field of Sixty-Four, even with the worst teams in their conferences.

Once the non-superconferences realize they hold power by not playing the superconferences, the money will have to shift to the lower conferences. Either in better deals for the lower conferences or in higher priced body-bag games. Even then, fans are will not be impressed is tOSU beats up on Florida Atlantic! We can probably expect disdain for the superconferences if they play and beat up the lowly unwashed teams of CFB.

Time is as much the ACC's friend as it is their enemy.

For SU, Time is probably more of a friend. SU is on the right trajectory. Will Dino be the HC in 12 years? Only if he wins. The Board and Admin are behind SU Sports (don't believe all of the NIL drama. I have no insight, but knowing that SU avoided overpaying for Jesse Edwards (of whom I am a fan) shows me they are handling the business side within their abilities and they are not panicking.

Take a deep breath, slowly exhale, watch the next 13 years and enjoy. While I think SU will be fine, I am staying with SU even if they are relegated to the non-semi-pro league. At least SU is staying on mission: Education of young adults to become leaders of the future.
That was a really long post but worth the read, I agree with much of what you’re theorizing. But more importantly I full heartedly agree with your last paragraph; we will continue to be season ticket holders and die hard fans of the Orange no matter what conference we eventually wind up in.

I too think everything will be fine, and honestly it’s kind of fun watching all the drama unfold and speculating.
 
what if the superconferences just ate more teams and went with promotion and relegation lol. That would provide pseudo lesser conferences to make themselves look better while giving everyone something to play for.

It’s late.
 
I think that’s already happening.
I hate NIL and portal as a consumer. I could care less if buddy boeheim is getting 40k to hawk Tullys boneless wings.

We tend to get lost in the morass of “wow that’s great for the kids”. The sport is professional now. So as a consumer the sport is less appealing. Ultimately this fish will rot even further.
 
The ACC GOR was the best thing for Syracuse to build up their programs and facilities w a steady stream of revenue

Anyone who says otherwise is crazy. If the gor didn’t exist the ACC blows up last year. The time value of this allows SU to clip a coupon and kick the can down the road until dust settles. We may be worse off in 2036 but it’s a ways away. The super conferences may drive every fan away and there’s a new regional super conf scenario by 36

We will be fine. Thanks to swofford
 
Yeah, I'm there.
With NIL and other factors changing the sport, it's become harder and harder to stay engaged. I like that the players are getting paid, but this whole thing is a giant cluster-f.
It reminds me of my MLB divorce years ago after the steroid scandals. I grew up a huge baseball fan, followed the sport all my life. But something died over time and I just stopped caring. First I stopped watching games, then I just became apathetic.
My only caveat is that if the Mets are doing well, I'll peek in and go along for the ride. Used to be that didn't matter- I'd watch regardless. But I haven't spent a dime on baseball in over a decade, and if you asked me to name the Mets roster, or the top 5 players in MLB today...I'd have no clue.
My Cuse love keeps me focused on our program's football, basketball, lacrosse, soccer etc. but honestly, it's not as much fun as it used to be. I'm resigned to my inevitable fate, that it is what it is.

Completely at this same point. It used to be a passion. I lost that passion for BB awhile ago but started getting it back this year. Not sure how I kept it for FB but I always felt like there was hope for decent teams.

This last bowl game killed the real passion I had. I’m still going to be die hard FB fan for awhile, until this all implodes but there is def some of that passion missing now. I was talking with a co-worker who’s a University of Miami fan, which until I met him I didn’t know existed. But the whole prize at the end of the season was getting to a bowl, that was exciting. It was my Super Bowl, I’d treat the day and the days leading up to it like that. I made the joke awhile ago in another thread. The bowl game was a notch above a Babers run spring game. So then I ask myself, what’s the point. If the bowl games aren’t special anymore then what’s the price at the end of the season for a SU fan if the team does well? I don’t know.
 
Completely at this same point. It used to be a passion. I lost that passion for BB awhile ago but started getting it back this year. Not sure how I kept it for FB but I always felt like there was hope for decent teams.

This last bowl game killed the real passion I had. I’m still going to be die hard FB fan for awhile, until this all implodes but there is def some of that passion missing now. I was talking with a co-worker who’s a University of Miami fan, which until I met him I didn’t know existed. But the whole prize at the end of the season was getting to a bowl, that was exciting. It was my Super Bowl, I’d treat the day and the days leading up to it like that. I made the joke awhile ago in another thread. The bowl game was a notch above a Babers run spring game. So then I ask myself, what’s the point. If the bowl games aren’t special anymore then what’s the price at the end of the season for a SU fan if the team does well? I don’t know.
When the playoff expands to 12, and then eventually 16… that’ll be the prize. In the old date you had to be 8-4 good or better to be considered for a bowl. I see this is as a different flavor of that.
 
When the playoff expands to 12, and then eventually 16… that’ll be the prize. In the old date you had to be 8-4 good or better to be considered for a bowl. I see this is as a different flavor of that.
Who knows where the playoffs end up. I hope it doesn’t grow larger as that just adds the 6th best SEC team to the mix.

As long as it is 12 teams it makes more sense to stay in a reduced ACC vs joining the B12. In the ACC you can split the playoff money 10 ways and actually make it to the playoffs. In the B12 you are getting half the playoff money (more teams to split with) and have no shot at the playoffs.
 
What’s tough for me to understand is if there’s a super league of Big Ten and SEC schools, some of the schools aren’t going to be thrilled with a prospect of having very few winnable games. You need the crappier programs in order to bring balance to the football universe. Yeah the universities will get a ton of money, but how happy will some of the mid to lower tier schools in the super league be when they have very little prospects for success? I just don’t see how this works long term. Not everyone can be haves.
"We'll be one of the 'haves'. Someone else will be a 'have-not'". :rolleyes:

If you look around the poker table and can't immediately spot the patsy, then you're the patsy.

What's even funnier to me is that if a bunch of the schools that are "always" on the losing end now decide to opt out and it's just the big boys left, how will their fans react if Georgia is consistently 3-9 or USC is consistently 2-10?
 
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I dream of the day they would poach Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Maryland, Northwestern, Illinois, and Rutgers from B10, plus Cincy and West Virginia from B12 to form a true conference that makes sense.

24 teams
BC, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Maryland

PSU, MSU, OSU, Michigan, Northwestern, Illinois

Cincy, WVU, Ville, Va Tech, NC State, Clemson

Duke, Wake, UNC, FSU, GaTech, Miami

Play your pod (5 games)
Play 2 from each other pod (6 games)
Play 2 OOC games
Play bowl game

Adds one week to season (extra revenue)

Remnants of B10 merge with B12 or SEC

Whomever is left merges with WAC /PAC

Three conferences of 24.
The ACC should have been proactive in the Midwest/Big 10 for expansion candidates, exactly as you outlined, 15-20 years ago. They also shouldn’t have signed that stupid contract and gotten a conference channel off the ground as soon as the Big did theirs. The Big adding Maryland and Rutgers was in part because they were worried the ACC would convince Penn State to bolt the Big and join the ACC.
 

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