After Thinking About it, Lester Has Shown Nothing | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

After Thinking About it, Lester Has Shown Nothing

orangenirvana said:
To be fair, it's not as if Shafer was an outsider we brought in as a hand-picked program savior. SU got Marrone'd and as a way to keep a seemingly good thing going and continue that momentum they decided to promote from within by giving the players' favorite the job.

That's why three years is more than enough time for Shafer. We didn't sacrifice much of anything, didn't break the bank for him. He got his shot, we gave him the ole college try and it was obvious that he couldn't cut it. No harm done, no hard feelings. Thanks for your time, good luck in your future endeavors.
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Exactly, he is spaziani although spaziani had a bit more success before he drove the program off a cliff
 
orangenirvana said:
To be fair, it's not as if Shafer was an outsider we brought in as a hand-picked program savior. SU got Marrone'd and as a way to keep a seemingly good thing going and continue that momentum they decided to promote from within by giving the players' favorite the job.

That's why three years is more than enough time for Shafer. We didn't sacrifice much of anything, didn't break the bank for him. He got his shot, we gave him the ole college try and it was obvious that he couldn't cut it. No harm done, no hard feelings. Thanks for your time, good luck in your future endeavors.
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yep. you get a shorter leash when you get the job by default. part of the deal
 
IthacaBarrel said:
Exactly, he is spaziani although spaziani had a bit more success before he drove the program off a cliff
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poor man's Spaziani is prob the most pathetic thing i've heard all day
 
I won't be a Baghdad Bob defender of this coaching staff. I will just say after last year's offense we look better on the field. Now I agree the 2nd half offense has been awful since USF but I will say Lester has proven my preseason questioning wrong.

SS should be gone barring a complete turnaround which isn't happening as we will be double digit underdogs in the next 3 games. Now BC is starting a walkon QB from Wellesley, MA. We should beat BC.
 
orangenirvana said:
Can't wait to see this kid under a different coaching staff.

I hate seeing Dungey run the read option. Yes, he has mobility and this is college where it's completely normal but I just don't think it's needed. Let him chuck it down the field, then on occasion use his mobility to scramble when a play breaks down and the opportunity is there.

I think Dungey is the type of QB who would thrive in an Air Raid system. Bring in a guy who can finally design the right offense for a Dome team like we've been talking about for decades.

We finally have a promising quarterback so it shouldn't be too hard to land a guy like that, right?

My biggest fear is wasting the four-year window we have with Dungey because our athletic department rationalized themselves into thinking that this coaching staff is not terrible.
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Seems to me that we were in the hole after 1st down almost every series in the second half. The offense is so much more effective when you are second and 3 than second and 9 or 10 or worse. Add to the fact that Dungey had an off day passing the ball, partly his fault and partly the receivers. As someone mentioned above we are slow running the offense (number of plays) and the plays we run are slow to develop. Yards per game has a lot to do with the low number of plays we run game to game. FSU ran a very standard D but we were not able to find a single mismatch. I know their talent level is much better, but we didn't do anything differently than we did all season. At least give Custis and Enoicy a few plays, maybe a quick slant or crossing pattern over the middle. And please use something that is designed to get 8 yards when you need 8 yards and not 6 or 7 on third down.
 
In the first 8 games of this season SU has punted 6 less times than last season's total through 8 and only thrown 6 picks vs 9 (ended with 17). They have already scored 8 more touchdowns than all of last year and more than doubled the TD pass count. Also 6 less FG attempts ... they are making progress but can't overcome such a large drop off in D. I think the pace of our offense is due to D performance and it is suffering statistically by most measures it is far more effective this year.
 
Lester has shown me he can find a diamond in the rough QB. That has value.
 
Alsacs said:
Just an FYI when I questioned SS hire as rushed you were among my biggest critics. I called Shafer the painter to build the next house after Marrone being an architect.

http://syracusefan.com/threads/whil...nk-back-to-when-wvu-hired-bill-stewart.41552/
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Of course I did because the guy had not coached a game yet as the HC. I thought it was a good hire at the time, it made sense. Shafer IMO, earned the opportunity to be the HC at Syracuse. His defenses were solid, he's a good man, paid his dues and was qualified IMO to be the next HC at Syracuse. That said, he has failed given that opportunity and we need to move on.

I was high on GROB too when we hired him. I also wanted him fired after year 3.

I will admit that I was wrong but I will be gung ho on the next HC when we hire him too. You also liked Adazzio, Diaco and Edsall, not looking great right now either. We need an offensive guy for sure
 
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elimunelson said:
To me the difference this year and last is having a talented QB who can do multiple things. I still don't get why we don't ever go to the seem for gains. It's either an attempt to the sidelines or a dump off. We really miss an Alec Lemon type who could get those yards over the middle. Team needs to recruit another Lemon or a Welker type.

Lester is running a decent offense but I give most of the credit to a qb who can follow orders and run it well. Can't wait to see this kid next year after a year of rest, growing and getting stronger.
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We have one in Lewis, but he's too busy running into the backfield to sell an option pitch. Strickland seems like a guy who could do damage in the slot, but has he run anything down the seam all year?

I have some serious questions about the deployment of players in this offense.
 
Full_Rebar said:
We have one in Lewis, but he's too busy running into the backfield to sell an option pitch. Strickland seems like a guy who could do damage in the slot, but has he run anything down the seam all year? I have some serious questions about the deployment of players in this offense.
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I don't think Lewis is getting open vs FSU. And I like the kid.
 
Alsacs said:
SS should be gone barring a complete turnaround which isn't happening as we will be double digit underdogs in the next 3 games. Now BC is starting a walkon QB from Wellesley, MA. We should beat BC.
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I thought you had said you'd bring him back with 1 more win?
 
IthacaBarrel said:
Of course I did because the guy had not coached a game yet as the HC. I thought it was a good hire at the time, it made sense. Shafer IMO, earned the opportunity to be the HC at Syracuse. His defenses were solid, he's a good man, paid his dues and was qualified IMO to be the next HC at Syracuse. That said, he has failed given that opportunity and we need to move on.

I was high on GROB too when we hired him. I also wanted him fired after year 3.

I will admit that I was wrong but I will be gung ho on the next HC when we hire him too. You also liked Adazzio, Diaco and Edsall, not looking great right now either. We need an offensive guy for sure
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Diaco has shown improvement. I wouldn't mind a Diaco, young , high energy and year-over-year improvement (though Gerg improved in year 2 as well, so not sure that the sample size is big enough yet). Unfortunately, he's a defensive guy, and we really need an offensive head coach.
 
IthacaBarrel said:
Of course I did because the guy had not coached a game yet as the HC. I thought it was a good hire at the time, it made sense. Shafer IMO, earned the opportunity to be the HC at Syracuse. His defenses were solid, he's a good man, paid his dues and was qualified IMO to be the next HC at Syracuse. That said, he has failed given that opportunity and we need to move on.

I was high on GROB too when we hired him. I also wanted him fired after year 3.

I will admit that I was wrong but I will be gung ho on the next HC when we hire him too. You also liked Adazzio, Diaco and Edsall, not looking great right now either. We need an offensive guy for sure
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Exactly. One of the things that drives me the most nuts about this board is the notion expressed by some that changing your mind is somehow a bad thing. Some posters [not alsacs, this is a general observation] seem determined to predict something positive or negative, and then defend that position as firmly entrenched as possible. It is perfectly reasonable to change your opinion on a subject when new information / circumstances arise, or when things change.

"Remember that thing you said two or three years ago...?" Who cares? A lot has changed in the last 2-3 years.

I've come full circle on Shafer. I was dead set against hiring Shafer when Marrone left, because I thought that the administration owed it to the program to do more due dilligence. Then I liked him, because of how the team rallied after a tough start his first year, which suggested that the staff was capable, and because he is such a charismatic recruiter. And now I have seen enough to reach the conclusion that he isn't the answer at HC. I still love the guy--easy coach to root for--but as a wise man [Scooch] put it recently, I love SU football more.
 
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NKR1978 said:
Diaco has shown improvement. I wouldn't mind a Diaco, young , high energy and year-over-year improvement (though Gerg improved in year 2 as well, so not sure that the sample size is big enough yet). Unfortunately, he's a defensive guy, and we really need an offensive head coach.
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No more steakheads, please
 
Full_Rebar said:
The offense has 0 TD's in the 2nd half in the last 3 games. I don't know what that means in the grand schemes of either "Fire Shafer", or "This Program is Building", but it's not good, not good at all.
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To be fair, one of those game was against FSU - a team that has exponentially more depth than 'Cuse and who's slowest player is probably faster than SU's fastest.

And in another of those three games, Dungey was seemingly knocked out cold for a moment only to remain in the game to the surprise of anyone who watched the hit unfold.
 
rrlbees said:
I thought you had said you'd bring him back with 1 more win?
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I was saying I thought he would be back with more 1 year. I was being a board realist.

I wouldn't have hired him in the first place and would have fired after last year. I don't think SS is a P5 HC. He hit the lottery getting this job and nothing he has has done has screamed he gets it as a HC.
 
IthacaBarrel said:
Of course I did because the guy had not coached a game yet as the HC. I thought it was a good hire at the time, it made sense. Shafer IMO, earned the opportunity to be the HC at Syracuse. His defenses were solid, he's a good man, paid his dues and was qualified IMO to be the next HC at Syracuse. That said, he has failed given that opportunity and we need to move on.

I was high on GROB too when we hired him. I also wanted him fired after year 3.

I will admit that I was wrong but I will be gung ho on the next HC when we hire him too. You also liked Adazzio, Diaco and Edsall, not looking great right now either. We need an offensive guy for sure
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We all get some wrong. I didn't like the hire and still wanted him to do well.

I agree with your statement here.
 
RF2044 said:
Exactly. One of the things that drives me the most nuts about this board is the notion that changing your mind is somehow a bad thing. Some posters [not alsacs, this is a general observation] seem determined to predict something positive or negative, and then defend that position as firmly entrenched as possible. It is perfectly reasonable to change your opinion on a subject when new information / circumstances arise, or when things change.

I've come full circle on Shafer. I was dead set against hiring Shafer when Marrone left, because I thought that the administration owed it to the program to do more due dilligence. Then I liked him, because of how the team rallied after a tough start his first year, which suggested that the staff was capable, and because he is such a charismatic recruiter. And now I have seen enough to reach the conclusion that he isn't the answer at HC. I still love the guy--easy coach to root for--but as a wise man [Scooch] put it recently, I love SU football more.
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FWIW, I've had a similar progression, even though for some baffling reason I've been labeled "negative" by the board's mood police. I actually was fine with Shafer's hiring because I knew we were up against it given the timing of Marrone's departure. And I loved the way Shafer talked when he got the gig. I thought he did a good job in 2013 all things considered. We lost a ton offensively and to come within 1 win of Marrone's high water mark was strong. I was discouraged by last season but willing to flush it given the ridiculous amount of injuries and internal issues.

I was not a fan of not seeking an OC beyond Lester but I also acknowledged that it's Shafer's ship to captain so he should hire who he wants.

This season has been disappointing though. Not just for the W/L record, I "predicted" 5-7, but because we're not improving nearly enough, and our game planning and game day management continues to be very poor. I've realized that the current staff has a ceiling, they just do. I'm not passionately calling for Shafer to be fired, but if Coyle decides to do that I certainly understand.
 
RF2044 said:
Exactly. One of the things that drives me the most nuts about this board is the notion expressed by some that changing your mind is somehow a bad thing. Some posters [not alsacs, this is a general observation] seem determined to predict something positive or negative, and then defend that position as firmly entrenched as possible. It is perfectly reasonable to change your opinion on a subject when new information / circumstances arise, or when things change.

"Remember that thing you said two or three years ago...?" Who cares? A lot has changed in the last 2-3 years.

I've come full circle on Shafer. I was dead set against hiring Shafer when Marrone left, because I thought that the administration owed it to the program to do more due dilligence. Then I liked him, because of how the team rallied after a tough start his first year, which suggested that the staff was capable, and because he is such a charismatic recruiter. And now I have seen enough to reach the conclusion that he isn't the answer at HC. I still love the guy--easy coach to root for--but as a wise man [Scooch] put it recently, I love SU football more.
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I don't have a problem at all with people changing their minds. I am always willing to admit when I am wrong or have changed my mind. I only brought the post I did up because of the level of scorn I received and I thought that was funny now.

I may be annoying to some but posts are never nuts. I just found that to be funny now. I have no problem with people's positions evolving. This is a place for differences of opinions. I agree SS is likable guy and I have no ill will towards him I jut want a new HC leading SU FB.
 
Scooch said:
FWIW, I've had a similar progression, even though for some baffling reason I've been labeled "negative" by the board's mood police. I actually was fine with Shafer's hiring because I knew we were up against it given the timing of Marrone's departure. And I loved the way Shafer talked when he got the gig. I thought he did a good job in 2013 all things considered. We lost a ton offensively and to come within 1 win of Marrone's high water mark was strong. I was discouraged by last season but willing to flush it given the ridiculous amount of injuries and internal issues.

I was not a fan of not seeking an OC beyond Lester but I also acknowledged that it's Shafer's ship to captain so he should hire who he wants.

This season has been disappointing though. Not just for the W/L record, I "predicted" 5-7, but because we're not improving nearly enough, and our game planning and game day management continues to be very poor. I've realized that the current staff has a ceiling, they just do. I'm not passionately calling for Shafer to be fired, but if Coyle decides to do that I certainly understand.
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i
I am sure I am in the Mood police's top 10 wanted with you.

SS is an easy guy to like but I just don't see his high water mark being better than 7-5. The coaching hasn't improved.
 
Scooch said:
FWIW, I've had a similar progression, even though for some baffling reason I've been labeled "negative" by the board's mood police. I actually was fine with Shafer's hiring because I knew we were up against it given the timing of Marrone's departure. And I loved the way Shafer talked when he got the gig. I thought he did a good job in 2013 all things considered. We lost a ton offensively and to come within 1 win of Marrone's high water mark was strong. I was discouraged by last season but willing to flush it given the ridiculous amount of injuries and internal issues.

I was not a fan of not seeking an OC beyond Lester but I also acknowledged that it's Shafer's ship to captain so he should hire who he wants.

This season has been disappointing though. Not just for the W/L record, I "predicted" 5-7, but because we're not improving nearly enough, and our game planning and game day management continues to be very poor. I've realized that the current staff has a ceiling, they just do. I'm not passionately calling for Shafer to be fired, but if Coyle decides to do that I certainly understand.
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it's almost like the record doesn't mean anything.

even in we kept it close, FSU was going to win on a pass. i'm almost willing to ignore that. all i need is for shafer to not look like a total nitwit and for the offense to look like a normal college offense. that isn't happening and they need to try someone else.
 
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