Almost every other team has multiple good shooters | Syracusefan.com

Almost every other team has multiple good shooters

STEVEHOLT

STEVEHOLT

There are FIVE letters in the name BLAIN.
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Its like they grow on trees. Watching all these other teams play, they've got like 5/6 dudes who have legit shots at making outside shots. Can we get a few?
 
STEVEHOLT said:
Its like they grow on trees. Watching all these other teams play, they've got like 5/6 dudes who have legit shots at making outside shots. Can we get a few?
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The crazy thing is, on paper, we DO have a few.

Cooney, Gbinije, Johnson, and Patterson should all shoot the ball better from three than they have thus far. We need every one of these guys to connect on a very realistically attainable ~35% of their trifecta attempts.

Joseph, McCullough, and Roberson can all shoot from mid-range, but need to also shoot better than they have thus far [excluding McCullough, who has shown nice touch].

The raw materials are there for this team to field multiple shooters in various lineups. And yet, so far this season we can't shoot straight, and seemingly cannot make two shots in a row. Heck, we even seem to have difficulty finishing inside, let alone making shots. That has to change.
 
The change in shooting in college hoops is amazing to me. You've got centers and power forwards who take and make 3-pointers with regularity these days. Why can't we get one who can make both a foul shot and a 15 foot jumper? I won't even be greedy and hope for one who can make a 3.
 
RF2044 said:
The crazy thing is, on paper, we DO have a few.

Cooney, Gbinije, Johnson, and Patterson should all shoot the ball better from three than they have thus far. We need every one of these guys to connect on a very realistically attainable ~35% of their trifecta attempts.

Joseph, McCullough, and Roberson can all shoot from mid-range, but need to also shoot better than they have thus far [excluding McCullough, who has shown nice touch].

The raw materials are there for this team to field multiple shooters in various lineups. And yet, so far this season we can't shoot straight, and seemingly cannot make two shots in a row. Heck, we even seem to have difficulty finishing inside, let alone making shots. That has to change.
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The reason we watch other teams get guys who shoot 36% wide open is because they have 3 out there at once and when you watch you watch them get and drain that wide open rhythm catch and shoot shot. Mike, BJ and Ron have to make their wide open looks so we can also have 2 shooters on the court to go with the ability of Chris, Tyler and Kaleb to make that 17' shot. Then we can see our guys getting wide open 3's and long jumpers that they can make. Its not always about shooting % its about what kind of shots you are getting. Cooney's % this year is misleading for instance. He's missing on looks that no one makes and missing on his tough guarded looks but he's got to be hitting 2 out of every 3 good looks that he is getting. If other guys get good looks and make them then Cooney will get 1 or 2 more good looks a game instead of two horrible ones. He makes those then the other guys get more open looks and back and forth it goes. We are a better shooting team than the numbers say but we take bad shots and have yet to show the opposition that we have guys other than Trevor to worry about.
 
My observation: We have had some shooters wide open looking for the ball (especially Cooney in the corner), but they are not getting the ball. Last year, Ennis got them the ball; it has not happened much this year. Either it swings around the outside or gets dumped into the middle. If the big man has to kick it back out, the ball goes to the top of the circle, not to the open man in the corner. This will take some time.
 
My theory: I have always said that JB is more of a baseball manager personality. He plays the percentages. This is why he sticks with the zone and why it works most of the time but can be burned at times when the percentages bite you and also why we are vulnerable in a one and done tournament setting.

Anyway, I think JB says: percentage wise, I don't really want Buss or TR out there shooting a ton of three's (he has said Buss hits them 2 days a week and can't hit the ocean the other days). Coach looks at it like this: why would have anyone but my top percentage 3 point shooter shooting 3's. There is undeniable logic in that, but the downside is that it puts insane pressure on that one guys (Cooney in this case) to hit those shots and it makes our team easy to defend.

None of this means that TR or Mike G or someone else won't ever shoot a three, but you know JB is not sending them out there telling them, "let's see if you can hit from deep today."

Anyway, this is my theory.
 
HoustonCuse said:
My theory: I have always said that JB is more of a baseball manager personality. He plays the percentages. This is why he sticks with the zone and why it works most of the time but can be burned at times when the percentages bite you and also why we are vulnerable in a one and done tournament setting.

Anyway, I think JB says: percentage wise, I don't really want Buss or TR out there shooting a ton of three's (he has said Buss hits them 2 days a week and can't hit the ocean the other days). Coach looks at it like this: why would have anyone but my top percentage 3 point shooter shooting 3's. There is undeniable logic in that, but the downside is that it puts insane pressure on that one guys (Cooney in this case) to hit those shots and it makes our team easy to defend.

None of this means that TR or Mike G or someone else won't ever shoot a three, but you know JB is not sending them out there telling them, "let's see if you can hit from deep today."

Anyway, this is my theory.
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I agree to some extent but MikeG, like Trevor has the green light from 3 this year at least judging by his shot selection. I also think they want Buss and BJ to take the 3's they get just not rushed or guarded ones at this point in time. Heck even Roberson and Chris have taken wide open 3's this year. I agree that JB is a percentages guy and in a perfect world if we are going to get 250 good looks at 3 this year he wants Cooney taking 250 of them, lol. But he also knows its not a perfect world and has mentioned that other guys need to make their open shots and that we need to get better shots for Cooney.
 
CuseFaninVT said:
The change in shooting in college hoops is amazing to me. You've got centers and power forwards who take and make 3-pointers with regularity these days. Why can't we get one who can make both a foul shot and a 15 foot jumper? I won't even be greedy and hope for one who can make a 3.
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Umm...his name is Chris McCullough.
 
cuseincincy said:
Umm...his name is Chris McCullough.
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He probably has time to get to the offensive glass before his own rainbow 3 comes down. Beautiful looking effortless shot. I like that he prefers to play in the lane for the most part and is selective about his 3pt shot but really I wouldn't mind him taking 2 a game the way it looks especially if he's only taking them when he is wide open.
 
jordoo said:
He probably has time to get to the offensive glass before his own rainbow 3 comes down. Beautiful looking effortless shot. I like that he prefers to play in the lane for the most part and is selective about his 3pt shot but really I wouldn't mind him taking 2 a game the way it looks especially if he's only taking them when he is wide open.
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One thing I've noticed is that just about every jumper McCullough takes, he's wide open.
 
Our best teams have had at least two, sometimes three, credible outside shooters. E.g., 2003, when we had Melo, McNamara, and Duany. Part of the problem is that recruiting for the zone isn't always consistent with getting good outside shooters. Guys who are long, very athletic, and good outside shooters aren't easy to come by.

One other issue I've noticed is that we almost never get three point shots from penetrating and kicking to the wing, or ball reversal to a shooter. We get our threes by running out shooters off screens, which means that they are usually running away from the basket right before they receive the pass, making it harder to get their feet set and body squared up. That makes shooting harder for good shooters, and harder still for guys who aren't particularly good shooters.
 
i am curious what the correlation between 3 pt % and free throw % is. it's a good way to isolate all that other stuff. if our problem is getting good shots, that shouldn't show up in the free throw %

i know that our three point shooters might not be taking the foul shots. this isn't perfect.

but syracuse is 65% from the line. 230th. we were 150th last year. 233rd in 2012-13. 150th in 2011-12. 260th in 2010-11
 
The lack of shooters have killed Cooney. There is a reason I created the thread who will be the second shooter to help Cooney out. HoustonCuse nailed it above I believe. JB plays percentages and doesn't really care how he wins as long as he wins. Defensive games in the 50's don't bother him as our offensive philosophy hasn't changed. The ISO game has basically made us easy to scout. Stick a guy on Cooney give him no room and the rest of the team besides Christmas will just stand there. We need the SF to feel confident in his shooting stroke.
 
Alsacs said:
The lack of shooters have killed Cooney. There is a reason I created the thread who will be the second shooter to help Cooney out. HoustonCuse nailed it above I believe. JB plays percentages and doesn't really care how he wins as long as he wins. Defensive games in the 50's don't bother him as our offensive philosophy hasn't changed. The ISO game has basically made us easy to scout. Stick a guy on Cooney give him no room and the rest of the team besides Christmas will just stand there. We need the SF to feel confident in his shooting stroke.
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cooney's only 79% from the FT line. that's ok but not anything that makes me think he's some naturally great shooter. I think back to mcnamara who was a better shooter than his 3 pt % would show - he makes me think SU has a team problem getting good shots

i think now we have both problems. we don't have any shooters and we don't get good shots
 
Millhouse said:
i am curious what the correlation between 3 pt % and free throw % is. it's a good way to isolate all that other stuff. if our problem is getting good shots, that shouldn't show up in the free throw %

i know that our three point shooters might not be taking the foul shots. this isn't perfect.

but syracuse is 65% from the line. 230th. we were 150th last year. 233rd in 2012-13. 150th in 2011-12. 260th in 2010-11
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Its a reasonable assumption, but one that I don't think is a valid correlation. There are lots of other advanced stats that break down shooting more meaningfully, and incorporate both of those data points [and others].
 
I think our shooting problem might be more of a passing problem than a shooting problem. I think the guys we have on our team are capable at making shots at a higher percentage, but because this team hasn't played together long we aren't moving the ball particularly well, and our passing has been spotty.

I distinctly remember Cooney being wide open on the wing in the Iowa game, the ball was reversed to him, and he had to jump about 2 feet in the air just to catch the ball. He then missed his three point shot long, probably because he had to get his feet set again after he caught the ball. I also remember Joseph passing to CMAC in that awkward spot outside the lane where he wasn't sure if he had to dribble or not. Consequently, he traveled. If we get the ball in the "shooting pocket" of our players I think they will start to convert at a higher percentage.

As a team we need to use the entire floor better. The corner jumper is open. We just aren't passing it to that player soon enough. We aren't moving the ball quick enough. I sense this is what JB talks about when we need time to get better. These guys need to get used to where each other will be on the floor.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
"shooting pocket"
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This was something Ennis was particularly skilled at, hitting guys in the shooting pocket. Plus he was very timely in his passing like an NFL QB throwing the ball before the receiver even cuts. Ennis read the action very well.
 
RF2044 said:
Its a reasonable assumption, but one that I don't think is a valid correlation. There are lots of other advanced stats that break down shooting more meaningfully, and incorporate both of those data points [and others].
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I would also add that there are a fair amount of good 3 pt shooters who are not good FT shooters.
 
dollarbill44 said:
I would also add that there are a fair amount of good 3 pt shooters who are not good FT shooters.
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This is obviously true when you look at stats but that doesn't stop it from boggling the mind.
 
pfister1 said:
I bet they aren't long and terrific at the top of the zone.
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we've had plenty of guards a the top of zone that were neither good in the zone nor could shoot for crap..but hell, they LOOKED like they should have been..
 
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