Benny williams

[OrangeDW]

Benny needs to hit the boards and run the floor for starters. Use that athleticism to get a putback or a transition hoop. Defend.

If he can do those things, I think he’ll earn more time. And as he earns more time, maybe he gets more comfortable out there and starts knocking down a few shots. Would be nice if we could maybe run a backdoor alley oop play for him like we used to with a lot of our athletic guys. My first memory was those happening against WVU’s 1-3-1 zone - so was that primarily something we ran against zones? Seems like it would be easier to run against a zone - and we probably won’t see any zones.

Hoping we can be in the game a lot against Lehigh and Cornell and do some things to earn more time going forward.

 

[AZOrange]

He’s totally overwhelmed out there. He had 2-3 fairly easy rebounding opportunities that he let slip by again. Can’t do that if you want more minutes

 

[phil77]

Why is it every good recruit (via rankings) the game is always overwhelming for them? Why does Syracuse always get the 1 guy in the top 20 or top 50 who the game is too fast for especially at forward How are other teams getting their freshmen to play and contribute but year after year we aren't? People ask why we don't blame the player? Because this is a serious pattern that IMO has hurt and limited the program.

2020 - Only recruit left is Frank.
2019 - Joe and Jesse
2018 - Buddy

Of our recruiting the last 3 years these are the only recruits that are left on the team that play any type of role. You want to look at a reason we are a bubble team then look no further than this. Why don't we have depth? All point back to the same thing. If JB isn't going to play recruits and highly rated recruits minutes during our biggest games then just stop recruiting and bring in portal bodies. I imagine if Benny sits all ACC play like Woody did then he will also be transferring out. The years of top recruits sitting on the bench multiple years to develop are long gone.

 

[SoBristol]

Freshman Rak started 35 games. It was a token start and he didn't play a ton of minutes, but he was on the floor when the game began. That probably helps.

A token start for 2 minutes, then yanked. Probably did not help, other than having his name announced. He had to get better.

A poster above mentioned Fab, Dion, Paul Harris or others — but these aren’t at all similar. The potential for those players was obvious. Harris was often spectacular, though sometimes tried to do too much; Fab was 7ft tall and a force on the boards; Dion — too selfish but it was easy to see what he could do with his skills.

 

[RF2044]

Agreed. JB is coaching each game to win that game on that night. Tomorrows problems are for tomorrow. This might seem obvious to some, but that is how it should be. If Benny got 10-12 minutes instead of 2 against FSU we probably lose that game, just because it would take time away from one of our two other forwards who were actually having an impact. We only won by three so every point was crucial. Would I trade a loss for giving Benny a real chunk of playing time that builds his experience and maybe leads to him finding some momentum sooner? In the end the answer has to be hell no. We need wins when we can get them.

It would help if we could say "well he sucks on O but he is a monster on the boards and really boosts the D" but right now he is just as much of a problem on that end of things as well. Totally different than the situation with you-know-who from last year.

An issue which is exacerbated by us not being very good. Every game is tight, and we need W's. So developmental time that Benny might otherwise get doesn't occur.

This is one of the toughest pre-conference schedules we've played, and possibly one of the shakiest teams in JB's tenure. Bad combo - and it equals little time for young players to get minutes.

 

[benjams77]

Agreed. JB is coaching each game to win that game on that night. Tomorrows problems are for tomorrow. This might seem obvious to some, but that is how it should be. If Benny got 10-12 minutes instead of 2 against FSU we probably lose that game, just because it would take time away from one of our two other forwards who were actually having an impact. We only won by three so every point was crucial. Would I trade a loss for giving Benny a real chunk of playing time that builds his experience and maybe leads to him finding some momentum sooner? In the end the answer has to be hell no. We need wins when we can get them.

It would help if we could say "well he sucks on O but he is a monster on the boards and really boosts the D" but right now he is just as much of a problem on that end of things as well. Totally different than the situation with you-know-who from last year.

This is why JB has no losing seasons... He will not let young players hold up winning for the sacrifice of tommorrow... JB coaches like an NBA coach...He is gonna play the best guys to win with and the others need to develop in practice... If we sacrificed winning seasons to grow talent then you all would been up in arms.. I hate losing guys to transfer but this year has shown me its just next man up and not to worry about players that want to leave.. If they are are meant to be at Syracuse then they will face the adversity and come thru it and the team will be better for it like with Jesse.. Seems that Frank has handled it now and I was very pleased with Benny on the bench last night.. He was engaged and body language was good.. He was fired up on Jesses rim run slam and foul.

 

[OrangeinDC]

Is there anyone on this board who actually thinks players like Benny have some ownership in their own performance? Anyone?! Nothing should surprise me on Syracusefan (haha it still does!), but it gets ridiculous to me when Benny doesn’t perform & the coaches get blamed automatically.

Benny turns the ball over within 30 seconds of getting in… “give him a longer leash, you know how Boeheim do!”

Benny misses a bunny or bricks a shot… “Coach destroyed his confidence, I knew it, you know how Boeheim do!”

My thought… “Benny, get in the gym & keep working on your game, you gotta take advantage of the opportunities you have when you get in the game”

I would love to see some of our other 30+ min per game players get to sit occasionally as well..

I mean, THEY shoot bricks, air balls, bounce dribbles off their legs, launch 30+ foot shots that become an immediate 2-5 point swing when we lose 2pts and the other team grabs the board and ends a break with a 2 or 3pt play (2 of these shots can potentially cause a 10pt swing), and this is done by multiple players. Also.. when THEY that don't pass, rebound or play defense.

How do you tell the kid, to get back in the gym and keep working when the guys getting all the burn making the same mistakes get to play through them and stay on the floor ( and they've been in college gym for a few years now)? I'll give you a bad two minute period for everybody on the floor at some point last night, but their nights didn't end with two minutes.

This is not an either or situation to me... Confidence is huge for a young player and trust/experience is huge for a HC, somehow there has to be a break through that starts this relationship developing between Coach and Benny.

 

[malpearl31]

I think he's hardest on forwards. Guards he kinda lets them figure stuff out, which is easier to do when the ball is in your hands.

Forwards though don't get that luxury.

Quincy played 20 minutes per game at the forward spot as a freshman in 2019-20, and probably would have played more if he didn't have that nagging groin injury.

In 2017-18, Oshae played 38 minutes per game as a freshman and Marek played 28 minutes per game as a freshman. Both at the forward spot.

Playing time for freshmen seems to depend more on how you produce on the court and on whether or not there are upperclassmen ahead of you in the rotation.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This is why JB has no losing seasons... He will not let young players hold up winning for the sacrifice of tommorrow... JB coaches like an NBA coach...He is gonna play the best guys to win with and the others need to develop in practice... If we sacrificed winning seasons to grow talent then you all would been up in arms.. I hate losing guys to transfer but this year has shown me its just next man up and not to worry about players that want to leave.. If they are are meant to be at Syracuse then they will face the adversity and come thru it and the team will be better for it like with Jesse.. Seems that Frank has handled it now and I was very pleased with Benny on the bench last night.. He was engaged and body language was good.. He was fired up on Jesses rim run slam and foul.

Ah, but see, the standards have changed.

The bar isn't not having losing seasons.

We used to regularly hit 25 wins and protected seeds.

Now he coaches every game not to lose and we're on the bubble/have to play over our seed in the tourney to advance.

It's one thing when we're awesome. It's another when we're mediocre.

And, I'm really uncomfortable with this idea that if a guy is "meant" to be at Syracuse they see through the adversity. These relationships are not one directional. I promise Red's pitch to Benny wasn't that he should come so he could get token minutes on a middling team, but it's cool, because you'll get put back on the bench if you slip up at all.

 

[RF2044]

Quincy played 20 minutes per game at the forward spot as a freshman in 2019-20, and probably would have played more if he didn't have that nagging groin injury.

In 2017-18, Oshae played 38 minutes per game as a freshman and Marek played 28 minutes per game as a freshman. Both at the forward spot.

Playing time for freshmen seems to depend more on how you produce on the court and on whether or not there are upperclassmen ahead of you in the rotation.

Agree, in the main. With Boeheim, it's all about trust. If he trusts you, then you play.

If he doesn't, then you sit and he rides players that he DOES trust.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Quincy played 20 minutes per game at the forward spot as a freshman in 2019-20, and probably would have played more if he didn't have that nagging groin injury.

In 2017-18, Oshae played 38 minutes per game as a freshman and Marek played 28 minutes per game as a freshman. Both at the forward spot.

Playing time for freshmen seems to depend more on how you produce on the court and on whether or not there are upperclassmen ahead of you in the rotation.

Eh. I still maintain JB is much more prone to have guards work their stuff out than forwards and bigs. And in some cases when the forwards and bigs make the most of their minutes it might not change anything.

 

[Bayside44]

I would love to see some of our other 30+ min per game players get to sit occasionally as well..

I mean, THEY shoot bricks, air balls, bounce dribbles off their legs, launch 30+ foot shots that become an immediate 2-5 point swing when we lose 2pts and the other team grabs the board and ends a break with a 2 or 3pt play (2 of these shots can potentially cause a 10pt swing), and this is done by multiple players. Also.. when THEY that don't pass, rebound or play defense.

How do you tell the kid, to get back in the gym and keep working when the guys getting all the burn making the same mistakes get to play through them and stay on the floor ( and they've been in college gym for a few years now)? I'll give you a bad two minute period for everybody on the floor at some point last night, but their nights didn't end with two minutes.

This is not an either or situation to me... Confidence is huge for a young player and trust/experience is huge for a HC, somehow there has to be a break through that starts this relationship developing between Coach and Benny.

Because those guys can shoot it. You're not a shooter, at all really, so you wouldn't know

JB always defers to the upperclass shot makers. Heck they got plenty of clean looks last night.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

An issue which is exacerbated by us not being very good. Every game is tight, and we need W's. So developmental time that Benny might otherwise get doesn't occur.

This is one of the toughest pre-conference schedules we've played, and possibly one of the shakiest teams in JB's tenure. Bad combo - and it equals little time for young players to get minutes.

I really think this is totally it. We have a very tough OOC slate and it is hard to find court time for a guy unless they are contributing. If a Buddy or a Cole is in a funk, you always know that they at least have the potential to suddenly light it up. Unless a bench player has proven that as well in the past...or unless he has proven it to JB in practice...it is understandable that his time is going to be somewhat limited. Nobody asks why Chaz or Jon Bol aren't getting on the court. It is self-apparent but that really applies to every non-starter.

A guy has to make the most of the opportunity in practice and when he is on the court. Hopefully that will come against some of the less formable opponents. As you say, right now development time is not as available as it otherwise might be.

 

[SWC75]

It's early but Benny Williams does not play like a 5*...shot is eye level and low trajectory...does not use his length ...gets pushed around easily and tries high school spin moves on experienced D1 players ...either get a charge or loses ball...he does not look ready for this level of play ...most 5* can come in as frosh and contribute...lots of work to do!

Woody Newton was better last year. I wish he'd stayed.

 

[SWC75]

Because those guys can shoot it. You're not a shooter, at all really, so you wouldn't know

JB always defers to the upperclass shot makers. Heck they got plenty of clean looks last night.

They can't score from the bench. Per Jimmy Satalin, JB got in Buddy's face at a time out and told him that he was going to bench him if he stopped shooting. It was after that wide-open miss in the second half. These guys could get hot at any time and Jim wants them in the game when they do.

 

[RF2044]

I really think this is totally it. We have a very tough OOC slate and it is hard to find court time for a guy unless they are contributing. If a Buddy or a Cole is in a funk, you always know that they at least have the potential to suddenly light it up. Unless a bench player has proven that as well in the past...or unless he has proven it to JB in practice...it is understandable that his time is going to be somewhat limited. Nobody asks why Chaz or Jon Bol aren't getting on the court. It is self-apparent but that really applies to every non-starter.

A guy has to make the most of the opportunity in practice and when he is on the court. Hopefully that will come against some of the less formable opponents. As you say, right now development time is not as available as it otherwise might be.

Just think -- if we'd played some tomato cans [like usual] instead of Auburn, Villanova, and Indiana, a guy like Benny Williams probably gets somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 minutes.

Which in turn might help him get more comfortable, help him relax and just play [because every possession / mistake wouldn't get amplified, like it does against tougher teams], and maybe provide the opportunity for him to have a big outing or two, or at least have some success to build upon.

The way that things are currently unfolding, Benny is barely going to play during the preseason -- because, we stink and the games are close. Then, we'll get to the ACC portion, and he'll still be generally unproven and JB won't trust him, so he'll only play token minutes. The entire year is going to be a waste from a developmental standpoint.

And the most likely outcome is that Benny will be dissatisfied with both his PT and the overall experience of being benched, and could take his five-star talents elsewhere. I believe that there is a real risk of that happening, given the circumstances.

 

[OrangeinDC]

Because those guys can shoot it. You're not a shooter, at all really, so you wouldn't know

JB always defers to the upperclass shot makers. Heck they got plenty of clean looks last night.

Ha!!! Your right... I'm not...

But I did sleep at a Holiday Inn, so I'll hit that s***!

PS... I think we need an old "Syracuse Fan - Alexandria" Alumni Game! Q up Billy and Mason!

 

[Bayside44]

Ha!!! Your right... I'm not...

But I did sleep at a Holiday Inn, so I'll hit that s***!

PS... I think we need an old "Syracuse Fan - Alexandria" Alumni Game! Q up Billy and Mason!

Billy's still balling out, Saturday mornings!

 

[DilemaCuse]

Why is it every good recruit (via rankings) the game is always overwhelming for them? Why does Syracuse always get the 1 guy in the top 20 or top 50 who the game is too fast for especially at forward How are other teams getting their freshmen to play and contribute but year after year we aren't? People ask why we don't blame the player? Because this is a serious pattern that IMO has hurt and limited the program.

2020 - Only recruit left is Frank.
2019 - Joe and Jesse
2018 - Buddy

Of our recruiting the last 3 years these are the only recruits that are left on the team that play any type of role. You want to look at a reason we are a bubble team then look no further than this. Why don't we have depth? All point back to the same thing. If JB isn't going to play recruits and highly rated recruits minutes during our biggest games then just stop recruiting and bring in portal bodies. I imagine if Benny sits all ACC play like Woody did then he will also be transferring out. The years of top recruits sitting on the bench multiple years to develop are long gone.

And the frustrating part is Benny is one of the very few top targets that the staff was able to sign lately.

Portal has killed the depth and it has not been replenished with enough recruits and transfers. I have covered this ad nauseum. Im hoping Jim learned his lesson from last year that he has to adjust to keep kids engaged so they don't immediately bolt on him or else its wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[althea]

I think I read somewhere that Benny’s problem is his hair being in his eyes. In fact this narrative is very popular on the extremely thoughtful OT forum.
I think that’s a pretty silly take, but the people over there are all very smart so who knows.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Just think -- if we'd played some tomato cans [like usual] instead of Auburn, Villanova, and Indiana, a guy like Benny Williams probably gets somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 minutes.

Which in turn might help him get more comfortable, help him relax and just play [because every possession / mistake wouldn't get amplified, like it does against tougher teams], and maybe provide the opportunity for him to have a big outing or two, or at least have some success to build upon.

The way that things are currently unfolding, Benny is barely going to play during the preseason -- because, we stink and the games are close. Then, we'll get to the ACC portion, and he'll still be generally unproven and JB won't trust him, so he'll only play token minutes. The entire year is going to be a waste from a developmental standpoint.

And the most likely outcome is that Benny will be dissatisfied with both his PT and the overall experience of being benched, and could take his five-star talents elsewhere. I believe that there is a real risk of that happening, given the circumstances.

Maybe, but it’s more than just games. We don’t see how he is performing in practice and that is important to JB. There have been countless instances where a guy has gotten extended minutes off the bench and afterwards JB said “he had great practices all week and we wanted to get him in the game for awhile. Benny may be all world in practice or…more likely…he is similar to what we have seen in games. At the end of the day, he is still a frosh. A frosh with glimpses of real upside but to give him a bunch of minutes when they may not have been earned is not a good thing either. I fully expect him to be a real contributor later in the season.

 

[JustPherU]

They can't score from the bench. Per Jimmy Satalin, JB got in Buddy's face at a time out and told him that he was going to bench him if he stopped shooting. It was after that wide-open miss in the second half. These guys could get hot at any time and Jim wants them in the game when they do.

Is it me or did you notice it looked like Buddy’s shooting form was odd last night? Looked as if he was almost favoring his back and leaning toward more than normal. Maybe I just dreamed that up as I was dead tired last evening watching the game, but I just thought he looked different in his shooting stroke.

 

[RF2044]

Maybe, but it’s more than just games. We don’t see how he is performing in practice and that is important to JB. There have been countless instances where a guy has gotten extended minutes off the bench and afterwards JB said “he had great practices all week and we wanted to get him in the game for awhile. Benny may be all world in practice or…more likely…he is similar to what we have seen in games. At the end of the day, he is still a frosh. A frosh with glimpses of real upside but to give him a bunch of minutes when they may not have been earned is not a good thing either. I fully expect him to be a real contributor later in the season.

I think this is where our opinions diverge.

Benny sure isn't playing like a guy who's having good practices. He looks fully shell shocked when he's out there.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Woody Newton was better last year. I wish he'd stayed.

I said this and had my post removed. Its the truth

 

[benjams77]

Just think -- if we'd played some tomato cans [like usual] instead of Auburn, Villanova, and Indiana, a guy like Benny Williams probably gets somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 minutes.

Which in turn might help him get more comfortable, help him relax and just play [because every possession / mistake wouldn't get amplified, like it does against tougher teams], and maybe provide the opportunity for him to have a big outing or two, or at least have some success to build upon.

The way that things are currently unfolding, Benny is barely going to play during the preseason -- because, we stink and the games are close. Then, we'll get to the ACC portion, and he'll still be generally unproven and JB won't trust him, so he'll only play token minutes. The entire year is going to be a waste from a developmental standpoint.

And the most likely outcome is that Benny will be dissatisfied with both his PT and the overall experience of being benched, and could take his five-star talents elsewhere. I believe that there is a real risk of that happening, given the circumstances.

No way its a waste developmentally...Thats done in practices...Yes games help...Its getting in the gym everyday and weight room everyday and film room everyday that develop...Sorry just irks me personally...I coach HS hoops and the parents that say my kid wont be at practice the next 2 days but we'll make sure he is at the Game Friday night ...Practice how you want to play... I believe the same thing in college...Benny should be in working on his fundamentals and skill for hours everyday.. Why do you think Jesse has made such a jump in skill.. Not the games ... He hardly played.. He worked in practice and from all accounts he had parents that got that and stressed that to him.. No way the year is a waste if Benny works on his game in practice!