Boeheim takes "shot" at Richmond

[Ceerqqq]

I think that JB would be best served by saying what Dino usually (but not always) says: "we don't discuss guys who are not with our program. Next topic please."

Just move on. I am pretty much that way. I don't think about guys who leave unless they go to the NBA.

One thing I will say...and this is NOT about Richmond but rather players in general...we fans see them for a few minutes a week and think we know everything about their game. The coaches see them for several hours every day. How hard they work, how good they look in practice, what mistakes they make over and over in practice, what details the coaches have to talk with them about repeatedly, how often they make the same mistakes once they are inserted into a game, etc. It is a whole different world that we are not privy to.

This is really the meta-issue behind the whole kerfuffle.

Some fans like to imagine that coaching a team to success is simply a matter of identifying which players have the most 'potential' and them plugging them into the starting lineup, regardless of how experienced they actually are in playing with the other guys.

Oh yeah, and after that, give all the players deep on the bench lots of game PT to help them develop, whether or not the "best players" on the starting team might actually need those minutes more to iron out their mistakes. So when Kadary demonstrated certain athletic advantages over Joe last year, they started demanding that Boeheim start him.

Implicit in their criticism last year was the assumption that either 1) Jim Boeheim "couldn't see" that Kadary was the more talented/gifted player in spite of watching him perform every day, or that 2) he could see it, but had some kind of "misguided sense of loyalty to Joe" that was pushing him to willfully ignore 'obvious facts' and endanger the team's ability to optimally develop as a team because of it.

It's an astounding assumption to make, one that can only be embraced if you are completely ignorant of the complete set of variables that a coach needs to manipulate to get a team to play their best by the end of the season.

Because Boeheim sees it every year, he knows how much learning his best five need over the course of a season to eliminate the mistakes that are costing them wins. That's why he 1) gives his starters all the PT they need to develop, and 2) always gives the variable of experience more weight than other variables, even over raw athletic ability.

It blows my mind that fans who know almost nothing about coaching basketball can adopt a superior attitude toward a coach who's repeatedly demonstrated his ability to develop teams over the course of a season relying 100% on his own evaluations of all the variables at his disposal.

It leads them to dismiss his comments about players as incoherent butt-hurt spasms of excuse-making instead of actually listening to his assessments and giving him credit for being right in his judgments in the past.

Irony of ironies, the whole Kadary-based indictment of Boeheim's coaching skill last season occurred in the middle of a season where the man showed once again his stunning ability to turn whatever mix of talent he has to work with into a competitive unit that can beat some of the best teams in the country in the NCAAT.

Seriously, at mid-season NONE of Boeheim's critics could have imagined him coaching that team into a Sweet Sixteen appearance. That he did do so, doing it his way, once again vindicated his coaching wisdom over the carping of amateurs sitting in their living rooms.

 

[Ceerqqq]

Not sure why JB engages in these conversations. Stick to commenting on your team. Avoid other players and other programs. Stay in your lane which Kadary is not in anymore.

Because he's asked questions by interviewers and it's his habit to answer them honestly.

That would be the reason...

 

[orangefog]

Kadary must have REALLY been out of shape, because normally 20 year olds don't get tired.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

So you saw 15-20 games or so but JB saw him in practice, gym, lunch room every day. But you know better... Makes sense...

Ill trust the dude running the program, not a 19 yo kid that was here for a minute. He has skills (as do many in all different walks of life), but if your not optimizing them your gonna get left behind and outworked.

so by your definition...a ton of college basketball analysts, other ACC coaches, former Cuse players and literally every fan saw the difference from Kadary vs Joe but a stubborn 76 year old is always right...by your logic. Got it

Fanboy at it's finest

 

[kcsu]

Jim will die thin skinned

 

[SUOrangeSU]

This is really the meta-issue behind the whole kerfuffle.

Some fans like to imagine that coaching a team to success is simply a matter of identifying which players have the most 'potential' and them plugging them into the starting lineup, regardless of how experienced they actually are in playing with the other guys.

Oh yeah, and after that, give all the players deep on the bench lots of game PT to help them develop, whether or not the "best players" on the starting team might actually need those minutes more to iron out their mistakes. So when Kadary demonstrated certain athletic advantages over Joe last year, they started demanding that Boeheim start him.

Implicit in their criticism last year was the assumption that either 1) Jim Boeheim "couldn't see" that Kadary was the more talented/gifted player in spite of watching him perform every day, or that 2) he could see it, but had some kind of "misguided sense of loyalty to Joe" that was pushing him to willfully ignore 'obvious facts' and endanger the team's ability to optimally develop as a team because of it.

It's an astounding assumption to make, one that can only be embraced if you are completely ignorant of the complete set of variables that a coach needs to manipulate to get a team to play their best by the end of the season.

Because Boeheim sees it every year, he knows how much learning his best five need over the course of a season to eliminate the mistakes that are costing them wins. That's why he 1) gives his starters all the PT they need to develop, and 2) always gives the variable of experience more weight than other variables, even over raw athletic ability.

It blows my mind that fans who know almost nothing about coaching basketball can adopt a superior attitude toward a coach who's repeatedly demonstrated his ability to develop teams over the course of a season relying 100% on his own evaluations of all the variables at his disposal.

It leads them to dismiss his comments about players as incoherent butt-hurt spasms of excuse-making instead of actually listening to his assessments and giving him credit for being right in his judgments in the past.

Irony of ironies, the whole Kadary-based indictment of Boeheim's coaching skill last season occurred in the middle of a season where the man showed once again his stunning ability to turn whatever mix of talent he has to work with into a competitive unit that can beat some of the best teams in the country in the NCAAT.

Seriously, at mid-season NONE of Boeheim's critics could have imagined him coaching that team into a Sweet Sixteen appearance. That he did do so, doing it his way, once again vindicated his coaching wisdom over the carping of amateurs sitting in their living rooms.

You are missing the point completely. What JB did 10-15 years ago is completely nixed on what he is doing now.
You really believe that if Kadary got Joe's minutes, we wouldn't have been a better team? The evidence was clear as day when JB HAD to sub out Joe last year and we were continually down 10-15 points and what would happen? Kadary would basically get us back into the game

 

[rrlbees]

You people realize that whole thing except the NBA part just repeats the interview last weak? Article even says so.

 

[rrlbees]

The evidence was clear as day when JB HAD to sub out Joe last year and we were continually down 10-15 points and what would happen? Kadary would basically get us back into the game

that was proven with the game by game stats posted here last season to basically be a huge exaggeration.

 

[Jake]

I think that JB would be best served by saying what Dino usually (but not always) says: "we don't discuss guys who are not with our program. Next topic please."

Just move on. I am pretty much that way. I don't think about guys who leave unless they go to the NBA.

One thing I will say...and this is NOT about Richmond but rather players in general...we fans see them for a few minutes a week and think we know everything about their game. The coaches see them for several hours every day. How hard they work, how good they look in practice, what mistakes they make over and over in practice, what details the coaches have to talk with them about repeatedly, how often they make the same mistakes once they are inserted into a game, etc. It is a whole different world that we are not privy to.

Spot on. If fans saw the way Harris and Flynn talked to JB at practice, they’d want them both kicked off the team. Watching the sausage being made is often ugly.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Spot on. If fans saw the way Harris and Flynn talked to JB at practice, they’d want them both kicked off the team. Watching the sausage being made is often ugly.

LOL I can only imagine. Many years ago JB was talking about a player...I THINK it was Scott McCorkle but I could be wrong.

JB said "Scott said incredible things to me...he even said things that Derrick Coleman never said to me!"

 

[Kineshi1]

so by your definition...a ton of college basketball analysts, other ACC coaches, former Cuse players and literally every fan saw the difference from Kadary vs Joe but a stubborn 76 year old is always right...by your logic. Got it

Fanboy at it's finest

He went to Seton Hall, not Puke or Kentucky. Get a grip bro. If people want a Aaron Boone Esque puppet then JB is not ur guy. I will surely miss his honesty which is extremely rare in this P.C. world.

 

[Jake]

Kadary must have REALLY been out of shape, because normally 20 year olds don't get tired.

Ziiiiiing!

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Lol a shot? Maybe. Also says if he puts in the work he will 100% play in the NBA.

Get your clicks

The "shot" was in the implication that Kadary was lazy in practice. Actually, it was more than an implication—he flat out said he didn't work hard.

Which is odd. I mean, if i see someone not living up to a standard i've set, i either encourage more or discourage the status quo: carrot or stick. Doing nothing, as a HC, and letting it continue... that, in and of itself, is not working hard either.

Yes, we fans don't see the players in practice and probably didn't have access to reports of injuries, so we comment on play and time and whatnot from a partially uninformed, outside view. That's not going to stop. That's what sports forums are. But, we also shouldn't blindly accept what JB says as empirical fact. He's not always 'factual' or logical. Ripping KaDary for being out of shape while JG somehow was apparently some hybrid of The Rock and Kipchoge Keino... and apparently Joe's defense was just as good as KaDary's... I mean, it's in the names. KaDary's 'D' was big, and he has two of 'em, while Joe's is small and last. Come on.

Maybe JB should transfer to Seton Hall. He's being outworked, too. Doesn't travel like the young guns, and just watches the first half of practice from a catwalk? Does he not have ACC-level endurance?

JB is talking because he's a thin-skinned guy portraying someone who isn't. And maybe he's preempting the discussion about 'what we mighta been' without certain transfers.

 

[LAOrange]

Maybe I didn't see it; but JB clarifying his position about Kadary seems to be an act of kindness... toward Joe. Joe took a ton of heat from fans for something he had no control over: Kadary's playing time. After Joe's acknowledgement of his sensitivity to fan remarks, JB stepped in (like a good boss) and said "It's not Joe's fault. It's Kadary's."

 

[Goin' Deep]

JB is among the greatest basketball minds in history.
As a basket ball COACH...? better than average.
There's a difference.

 

[djcon57]

Maybe I didn't see it; but JB clarifying his position about Kadary seems to be an act of kindness... toward Joe. Joe took a ton of heat from fans for something he had no control over: Kadary's playing time. After Joe's acknowledgement of his sensitivity to fan remarks, JB stepped in (like a good boss) and said "It's not Joe's fault. It's Kadary's."

everything he’s done since the end of the season for Joe has hurt him...including not bringing in someone to compete with him for his starting spot and bringing in a backup with a build in excuse not to play him

all my opinion

 

[djcon57]

that was proven with the game by game stats posted here last season to basically be a huge exaggeration.

Agreed... But since we seem to be allowing this discussion today...The difference in plus/minus when Kadary was on the court vs when he was not wasn’t an exaggeration. It was a fact. The team was better when Kadary was on the court.

doesnt matter now. He’s gone. I don’t get why we (including JB) continue to talk about him. Just let it go.

 

[CousCuse]

everything he’s done since the end of the season for Joe has hurt him...including not bringing in someone to compete with him for his starting spot and bringing in a backup with a build in excuse not to play him

all my opinion

You could follow Seton Hall, they have your favorite player.

 

[djcon57]

You could follow Seton Hall, they have your favorite player.

He’s not my favorite player and I’m an Syracuse alum so I will continue to root for my school

if you continue post these type of personal attack style posts instead of addressing the topics in my posts, I will respond in kind. Cool?

 

[Orangezoo]

He’s not my favorite player and I’m an Syracuse alum so I will continue to root for my school

if you continue post these type of personal attack style posts instead of addressing the topics in my posts, I will respond in kind. Cool?

Just ignore him. It really is better.

 

[Orangezoo]

Agreed... But since we seem to be allowing this discussion today...The difference in plus/minus when Kadary was on the court vs when he was not wasn’t an exaggeration. It was a fact. The team was better when Kadary was on the court.

doesnt matter now. He’s gone. I don’t get why we (including JB) continue to talk about him. Just let it go.

Agreed. It's weird. Just as I think the Kadary sellers remorse we constantly get and then criticism of Joe just because he isn't Kadary- the bashing of Kadary needs to stop.

The kid was interviewed and responded. He hasn't posted a thing on social media I have seen since. Woody for instance has posted plenty. Kadary has been silent.

 

[CousCuse]

He’s not my favorite player and I’m an Syracuse alum so I will continue to root for my school

if you continue post these type of personal attack style posts instead of addressing the topics in my posts, I will respond in kind. Cool?

I guess that's fair, I just think Boeheim has already taken enough bashing over this issue.

 

[CousCuse]

Just ignore him. It really is better.

Maybe I don't think a freshman should come in and think he gets to call the shots for one of the greatest coaches of all time. He wasn't a 5 star recruit, does Benny get to decide how he wants to play and how much now?

 

[RealMcNeil]

Not causal but look at the outcomes against top 100 teams when KR played more than 20 mins. Not only did SU lose a larger proportion of those games but the offense suffered quite a bit.

I'd rather watch SU win games but that's just me.

 

[pearl31]

this thread is painfully dumb